Longevity of the Z4

[baege]

I own a 2007 Z4 3.0si coupe (production date March 2007) with about 47000 km/30000 miles currently. While the mileage is relatively low, it is obviously aging and will continue to do so.

I’ve posted lately about thinking about a replacement for my Z4C. I still love the car and it still stirs me everytime I drive it. So my thoughts of moving on are not related to a current dissatisfaction. Rather my motivations for a replacement are based mainly in thoughts about potential crazy repair costs as the car gets older. I had a friend with a 5 series that he kept for a long time, repair bills of $4000 were not out of the ordinary.

Are others considering moving on for similar reasons or are my fears unfounded?

[Mirko]

I'd say the 100K km mark is where bigger costs come in.

1. Inspection 2
2. Valve adjustment
3. Suspension components
4. Fluids if not covered under inspection 2
5. Cooling system overhaul (weak on E36/46 not sure if ours too)

It really depends on how well you take care of your car. My 330ci had 60K km on it and I bought a new battery and FCB's. That was it, except for the mountain of money spent on mods. My E36 finally kicked the bucket around 260K km. Did front suspension, brake cable on rear, water pump, pullies, and transmission. The transmission was running fine but 2nd-3rd was delayed. The cooling system needed an overhaul and parents traded it in instead of keeping it running. Otherwise I think with $1K in cooling it wouldve been good another 100K.

[Finnegan]

I'm not considering moving on. I don't see a high degree of risk with the N52 or S54 engine or drivetrain. Sure as the car ages there's maintenance to be done. Electronics are the only area of potential concern, but we're not seeing a high failure rate there on the 2003, 2004, and 2005s as far as I know. We're not driving a Porsche with IMS, or a Boxster or Gen I Cayman here that has known engine issues. In those cases dumping the car before 40K is probably a very wise financial decision.

Considering the performance/fun of this car vs. the cost of a newer car, I'm just putting some of the money that would go to a new car into a repair fund. If I spend 4K every 4 years that's still a hell of a lot cheaper than the cost of a new car. Especially given the slim choices for the same performance, reliability, and fun factor on the market.

[v3.0si]

keep it at all costs. we here at zpost can't afford to lose another valued member!

[baege]

Originally Posted by Mirko

I'd say the 100K km mark is where bigger costs come in.

1. Inspection 2
2. Valve adjustment
3. Suspension components
4. Fluids if not covered under inspection 2
5. Cooling system overhaul (weak on E36/46 not sure if ours too)

It really depends on how well you take care of your car. My 330ci had 60K km on it and I bought a new battery and FCB's. That was it, except for the mountain of money spent on mods. My E36 finally kicked the bucket around 260K km. Did front suspension, brake cable on rear, water pump, pullies, and transmission. The transmission was running fine but 2nd-3rd was delayed. The cooling system needed an overhaul and parents traded it in instead of keeping it running. Otherwise I think with $1K in cooling it wouldve been good another 100K.

Thanks for the thoughts. So just to clarify, you bought a 330ci with 60 k on it, and you replaced the battery and the front control bushings when you first got it? Over the next 200 km, you replaced the front suspension, brake cable, water pump, pullies and tranny (can you estimate what you spent on all that?)

[baege]

Originally Posted by v3.0si

keep it at all costs. we here at zpost can't afford to lose another valued member!

cheers

[baege]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

I'm not considering moving on. I don't see a high degree of risk with the N52 or S54 engine or drivetrain. Sure as the car ages there's maintenance to be done. Electronics are the only area of potential concern, but we're not seeing a high failure rate there on the 2003, 2004, and 2005s as far as I know. We're not driving a Porsche with IMS, or a Boxster or Gen I Cayman here that has known engine issues. In those cases dumping the car before 40K is probably a very wise financial decision.

Considering the performance/fun of this car vs. the cost of a newer car, I'm just putting some of the money that would go to a new car into a repair fund. If I spend 4K every 4 years that's still a hell of a lot cheaper than the cost of a new car. Especially given the slim choices for the same performance, reliability, and fun factor on the market.

Thanks for the thoughts, your repair fund is an interesting idea. And I totally agree re the slim choices on the market.

[Huz-Z]

As for me, I am here for the long haul. (Sorry If that is bad news LOL!)

I am doing my best to recruit new members too, with two of my buddies just having picked up 3.0si roadsters, 2007 and 2008 respectively.

Based on the number of almost showroom clean Z3's that I see in my town, I see no reason that your Z4 won't look as good in years to come. Clearly, these cars are well cared for, definitely NOT winter driven in salt covered roads, and likely garaged, at least for the winter.

I cannot stress enough the importance of keeping your car away from salt. We have a 2001 Accord that has seen 11 Canadian winters driving on salt covered streets. The shop called today to tell me that the following have or soon will fail simply due to salt corrosion: base pan, external coolant tube, steering rack, exhaust, gas and brake lines. If you can keep your car away from roadsalt, with good maintenance, it will essentially be immortal.

Cheers!

[bluecobra]

I just bought an 06 Z4M Coupe with 89k miles on it and I have faith in the motor going another 30 - 40k miles. Granted, I don't drive the car daily, but I hope to keep it for 2-3 years, at least. My hope is that BMW has all the kinks out of the S54 engine. Plus I can do most work on it myself.

Now, if you have to take it to a dealer, it could be costly over time.......

My .02.

[ANUSTART]

I would echo Finnegan's thoughts. I've not yet seen any exodus due to reliability issues. Most move on simple for something different.

If you decide to keep it, find a good, reasonably priced independent BMW mechanic.

[RADRACR]

Originally Posted by Huz-Z

I cannot stress enough the importance of keeping your car away from salt. We have a 2001 Accord that has seen 11 Canadian winters driving on salt covered streets. The shop called today to tell me that the following have or soon will fail simply due to salt corrosion: base pan, external coolant tube, steering rack, exhaust, gas and brake lines. If you can keep your car away from roadsalt, with good maintenance, it will essentially be immortal.

Not to mention, frame and suspension damage. My mom in South Dakota (heinous winters) needed to destroy her perfectly running '88 Mazda MX-6 a few years back because the frame was weak enough to split in two on the freeway. The engine with 260K miles was still good, and she sold it for a couple hundred bucks.

Road salt pretty much eats cars alive.

[Shipkiller]

Originally Posted by Mirko

I'd say the 100K km mark is where bigger costs come in.

1. Inspection 2
2. Valve adjustment
3. Suspension components
4. Fluids if not covered under inspection 2
5. Cooling system overhaul (weak on E36/46 not sure if ours too)

It really depends on how well you take care of your car. My 330ci had 60K km on it and I bought a new battery and FCB's. That was it, except for the mountain of money spent on mods. My E36 finally kicked the bucket around 260K km. Did front suspension, brake cable on rear, water pump, pullies, and transmission. The transmission was running fine but 2nd-3rd was delayed. The cooling system needed an overhaul and parents traded it in instead of keeping it running. Otherwise I think with $1K in cooling it wouldve been good another 100K.

1: If you really look at the Inspection 2 sheet, anyone can do that....

2: Valve adjustments are only required on the Z4M's. Not his Si motor.

3: Fluids are a wear and tear item on any car. I have to change the transmission fluid on my truck every 30K miles. 17qts of synthetic @$8.50/qt not including the filter/gaskets. Differential fluids changed every 25K, both front and rear.

4: $1000 to overhaul a coolant system? Someone got robbed. I just replaced the two coolant hoses and sensor on the Roadster and it only cost me $150.00 and one hour of time. If you do regular coolant system maintenance and not that stupid BMW recommended schedule, your coolant system should last. His Si motor does not have the water pump design issues that the BMW M54 engines and before had.

The higher the mileage on any car requires more maintenance. If you love the car, the car is paid off and you only have to put, let's say $500 a year into maintenance, that is much better than $500/month on a new car and you still have some maintenance costs with a new car.

BMW's cost more to maintain than a Honda or Ford. A BMW owner SHOULD know this going in if he did his homework first. You don't buy a BMW for reduced maintenance costs. Your own one for HOW it drives.

If you love the car, keep the thing. If you don't love it, get rid of it and get something else.

[ANUSTART]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

If you love the car, keep the thing. If you don't love it, get rid of it and get something else.

+1

[Jmanscotch]

I think ShipKiller says it best.

Keep in mind, the new cars that are going to be coming out are ever progressing towards more and more electronics integrated in every nook and cranny, and ever further away from something capable of being wrenched on by a shade tree mechanic.

If you don't like to get your hands dirty on your car, then this may not affect you much, and at that point then maybe buying a new car every several years, so you can get a warranty, would be a wise and hassle free choice.

If being able to learn the car, turn your own wrench and thus have a beautiful understanding and appreciation for the car (on top of the ability to save on repairs and maintenance) then I would aim towards keeping it to the upper 100,000 mile mark, before it might stop making sense to continue to put money into it.

It really is just a matter of what everything balances out to in your specific scenario and what the priorities of your situation are. To many, keeping and learning to wrench on their own is not only a hobby, but a good financial move during their ownership. To others, the time involved in wrenching on their own is not worth the savings due to the hassle and would much prefer the 'ease' and relative peace of mind of a warrantied vehicle the buy every several years.

BMW has several platforms (many being the 'entry level' ones ((read: Not high end 7ers with all the gizmos)) that have proven their ability to last 200K, 300K and more, miles, with only very predictable repairs associated with that sort of mileage (aka, nothing that would be a reason to dump the car and move on). There is no reason to beleive that yours will be any exception, if cared for.

[Mirko]

Originally Posted by ONLYZ4COUPE IN GTA

Thanks for the thoughts. So just to clarify, you bought a 330ci with 60 k on it, and you replaced the battery and the front control bushings when you first got it? Over the next 200 km, you replaced the front suspension, brake cable, water pump, pullies and tranny (can you estimate what you spent on all that?)

Sorry no. I bought the 330ci with 14,000km and drove it to 60,000km when I sold it. I replaced the front bushings with Meyle HD ones. The original ones were still okay but there was a little play in them. I would never use HD bushings again though. Way too much vibration came through the steering wheel for my liking. I spent more in mods than I did on maint for this car. It ran great and gave no problems. I think I spent $3K in mods on the car and maybe $600 on oil changes for my ownership. This is an estimate and I did them myself and I live in Canada so more expensive. One caliper stuck on the driver side and it was cheaper to get a Wilwood BBK than to replace it with a used one so that was $1,200 or so. However, that model was known for sticking calipers.

I bought my E36 with 170,000km on it and drove it to about 200K when my parents took over the remaining 60K km. It was a 1995 325is so it was old with high km to begin with, plus prior owner didn't take care of it. If it was a manual I would've kept it until the engine exploded. The auto-tragic on all older BMW's sucks and is failure prone. Great fun little car, miss it more than my 330ci. Transmission was maybe $2K for a used one plus install and all the other headaches. The power steering pully exploded on the highway and it needed to be replaced. Brakes cost a lot to do. I think I spent $3K on the car fixing stuff and some light modding. Parents spent the same on fixing stuff. Not horrible but hard to justify spending more to repair a car than it is worth.

[Finnegan]

Good discussion here.

Having 2 of these cars in the garage that see some track use, learning to care for the car myself has become a necessity. I've done brakes (pads, rotors, fluids), transmission fluids, oil, coolant, basic diagnostics, and basic reprogramming. On the upcoming list will be alignment, exhaust installation, upcoming valve adjustments (having another forum member help me the first time), and if I do coilovers I'm probably doing that myself too.

Up until last year I hadn't done any of these kinds of things myself (aside from tearing down and rebuilding a lawn mower engine in 7th grade ). With the help of the helpful folks on this forum and the resources here (DIYs, discussions) and the internet in general, it's really not that difficult to care and feed the car. Hanging around here with the capable crew inspired me to DIY, first little things then more and more.

Like Ship said, BMW maintenance isn't cheap. But if you DIY, it's not that bad comparatively to Honda or Toyota maintenance if done by a dealer or shop. Cost for rotors, pads, fluid on my buddy's E46 M3? A bit over 500 dollars and an afternoon of our time. Cost at a local indy shop? 1,100 dollars (dealer of course wanted more).

The costs is tools and time, and good tools are a one-time investment. Plus if you're like me--the kind of person who isn't confident the right oil was used, the right differential fluid was used, right torque was used etc.--there really isn't another way to do it. Personal experience with dealer-trained staff and some indy shops tells me I'm really not off base with my beliefs either.

[Mirko]

Originally Posted by Shipkiller

1: If you really look at the Inspection 2 sheet, anyone can do that....Agree and I would do myself, don't know ops level of skill

2: Valve adjustments are only required on the Z4M's. Not his Si motor.agree but put it out there

3: Fluids are a wear and tear item on any car. I have to change the transmission fluid on my truck every 30K miles. 17qts of synthetic @$8.50/qt not including the filter/gaskets. Differential fluids changed every 25K, both front and rear.

4: $1000 to overhaul a coolant system? we didnt get it done and at 260,000km it needed everything including the heater core, so parts alone to do that are expensive. The previous owner did no maintanance Someone got robbed. I just replaced the two coolant hoses and sensor on the Roadster and it only cost me $150.00 and one hour of time. If you do regular coolant system maintenance and not that stupid BMW recommended schedule, your coolant system should last. His Si motor does not have the water pump design issues that the BMW M54 engines and before had.

My responses are above

[msh441]

Love seeing the replays in this thread and learning a thing or two.

I'm new to the Z4 scene, too with a new-to-me 2007 Z4M Coupe with 26k recieved just last week. It's my first BMW, but my dad has been a zealot for te last 10-15 years now, so I think I'm familiar with the overall brand ownership experience.

I plan on this being my daily driver here in Washington. It rains a lot (hence the hard top) but except for Seattle proper, we don't salt roads and usually get less that 2-3 weeks of serious snow/ice over a calandar year. I have a warhorse 1994 4Runner for those days, anyway... and the wife's Volvo sedan for full family outings.

I'm of the opinion that this was the Z4 M was the last/best example of the S54... and reliable, naturally aspired, inline 6 cylinder engine with a manual transmission. And NA I6's seem to have really be BMW's bread and butter for decades now.

I'm intimately familiar wih changing my own fluids, filters, swapping pads & rotorsin 2012, as I'll be due and I'm assuming it can't be any harder than a Ducati Tessatretta engine. At least there's a lot more space for hands to work in!

With the idea that I'll be able to handle about 90% of what comes up, I'm hoping the ownership experience is a pleasurable one.

I like the fact that the Z4 M pretty much shares an engined with the common-as-muck E46 M3 and most other parts with the popular Z4. I think the two biggest odd-ball parts would be the transmission and the diff, but you really don't hear of these going out with any frequency, so I'm not too worried.

-Change the oil every 7K with a mid-cycle filter swap every 3500
-Coolant, brake and diff fluid every 24 months
-Valve adjusts every 30K with a new K&N and fuel filter
-Plugs every 60K with drive belts
-Gas, gas and more gas!

Piece of cake, right?

[vachss]

Just turned 80K miles in my 3.0si coupe. Other than fluids the only maintenance required so have been obvious wear items like tires, shocks at 70K and now brake pads at 80K. I'm thinking this is a 200K car easy.

[Aries326]

Great thread. I was wondering the same thing as well with my 3.0si. This thing is a keeper. I'm not one to buy/lease a car and drop it after a few years. This baby isn't going to see any salt but will see plenty of spirited driving. Like OP, I too was worried about maintenance. I bought the maintenance package, but in hindsight, I probably shouldn't have. It'll expire before anything needs to get done to my car since it isn't my daily driver.

Luckily, my brother is a mechanic. If I scrounge up some extra shifts this spring, I'll be putting in a few goodies like coilovers, a new set of wheels and intake.

I like Finnegan's idea of a repair fund. Its probably what I should have done instead of getting the maintenance package.

Anyone with suggested schedule for the 3.0si in terms of changing out the fluids? Someone above mentioned not to follow the BMW scheduled maintenance.

[KevinM]

These cars are basically bullet-proof compared to newer BMWs. As mentioned, the electronics are kept to a minimum and the engines are tried-and-true. I actually have higher hopes for my future BMW ownership after driving a 1M for a week, but for reliability, these cars are going to be rock solid. Having said that, if you are looking for a new car, reliability of your current car is a non-issue (otherwise we'd all still be driving our previous Honda Civics!).

Electronics and perhaps HPFPs aside, I think BMWs respond well to appropriate maintenance. I've owned my E39 M5 for 7 years; it has been extremely reliable, but I'm quite compulsive about maintenance.

[Incompatible]

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Good discussion here.

Having 2 of these cars in the garage that see some track use, learning to care for the car myself has become a necessity. I've done brakes (pads, rotors, fluids), transmission fluids, oil, coolant, basic diagnostics, and basic reprogramming. On the upcoming list will be alignment, exhaust installation, upcoming valve adjustments (having another forum member help me the first time), and if I do coilovers I'm probably doing that myself too.

Up until last year I hadn't done any of these kinds of things myself (aside from tearing down and rebuilding a lawn mower engine in 7th grade ). With the help of the helpful folks on this forum and the resources here (DIYs, discussions) and the internet in general, it's really not that difficult to care and feed the car. Hanging around here with the capable crew inspired me to DIY, first little things then more and more.

Like Ship said, BMW maintenance isn't cheap. But if you DIY, it's not that bad comparatively to Honda or Toyota maintenance if done by a dealer or shop. Cost for rotors, pads, fluid on my buddy's E46 M3? A bit over 500 dollars and an afternoon of our time. Cost at a local indy shop? 1,100 dollars (dealer of course wanted more).

The costs is tools and time, and good tools are a one-time investment. Plus if you're like me--the kind of person who isn't confident the right oil was used, the right differential fluid was used, right torque was used etc.--there really isn't another way to do it. Personal experience with dealer-trained staff and some indy shops tells me I'm really not off base with my beliefs either.

Well said! It's difficult to find any car which gives you that spark when you turn the key and push it through the turns, enjoy it. As an additional benefit, our cars can still be worked on for most of the wear and tear items. For me, being able to work on the car is almost as important as getting behind the wheel. Drive it, work on it, enjoy it. High performance entertainment does have a cost associated with it. If the cost exceeds your comfort level, buy an econo-box.