Rear Ended - Insurance Fiasco

[WangTa]

Hi all - this is my first accident and I need some guidance on what I should do. Let me explain the scenario.

I was rear-ended by this stupid teenage girl a couple months ago while I was stopped at a red light. It wasn't a super hard hit, but hard enough that my glasses flew off my face and onto the windshield. No bodily injury - the car seemed fine, but had some scratches on the back bumper and two holes from the license plate screws on the other car.

Girl's insurance company was All State, so I called them up. They said they were aware of the accident and would take full liability. Cool. I just needed to bring it to one of their review centers to get an estimate - so I did. Estimate came out to $500, which would fix the bumper by simply filling in the holes with some filler and repainting. However, All-State said I could bring it anywhere and they would cover it. So I brought it to a body shop next to my place (Eli's body shop in Los Angeles) that specializes in BMW and Audi. They did an estimate and it was $5300. I made sure all-state was aware of the estimate and they sent a guy out to review the estimate and damage (Eli's took off the back bumper to show underlying damage). Repair commenced afterwards and the repair process began (Dec 23).

Fast forward TWO WEEKS LATER (Jan 7) - I call Eli's to ask "Where's my car". The guy says the car is done but is waiting for the All-state guy to come back out and give final approval and settle the bill. He says they expect him to be out that day or first thing next week. I say, "ok - that's fine". And continue to wait.

Monday comes and goes without word - I call them again (Jan 12), "can I pickup my car?". Again, they say they are waiting on the All-State guy. SO I finally call All-state - they say they already settled the bill - and paid $3,300 on Jan 5th. Interesting, so I call Eli's and tell them this - they acknowledge they received $3,300, but have an outstanding amount of $2,000. I call All-state back and ask why they didn't pay the remainder of the bill. All-State then gets nasty, saying Eli's is overcharging and they refuse to pay the remainder. Also, they say they never received an amended bill (the extra $2,000), which Eli's claimed to have filed a week ago. I find out later, that Eli's officially filed the amended bill with All-state later that day (WTF!?).

So now I'm stuck, without a car and a dispute between All-state and the car repair shop. In order for Eli's to start repairs on the car, they made me sign this waiver that basically says there is a lien on the vehicle for any amounts not paid as it relates to the repair.

Again, this is my first accident and I probably was an idiot throughout the process, but I've been without my car for almost 4 weeks now for a retarded non-fault rear-end accident. What do I do?

[bkwon327]

$5300 for rear bumper refinish seems absurd. Based on your description of impact and damage, the bodyshop is clearly trying to rip off the insurance company. With that said, next time, go through your own insurance company and pay your deductible. You will be reimbursed for your deductible when the other party assumes full liability. That way you can have your insurance company fight for you instead of you doing the tedious followups and other unnecessary grunt work.

Your current situation is a painful one but I wouldn't worry to much since the other insurance company took full liability. Regardless of how much the bodyshop is charging, you have the right to select your own bodyshop and it's for the bodyshop and the insurance company to work out. Just enjoy your sub-compact rental (assuming you have one) and give it some time.

[Kartelli]

Did "Eli's" turn the car over to you? Or is it still sitting in their lot?

Did you call your insurance company to report the accident and give the girls insurance info to them? I think that should be your next step if it hasn't been done.

As far as you are concerned, the payment is between Eli's and Al-State and they need to settle the dispute. Why they are holding your car hostage is strange, they should be documenting what work they have completed to date with pictures and a report to send to Al-State.

[KIS]

I would call your insurance agent and ask for advice on how to proceed. I went through a similar accident last month. I feel your pain.

[Georgeair]

The takeaway for others reading this is don't try to shortcut the process. Just call your own agent and let them run interference for you throughout. Either way it's an accident on your record even if not at fault, and they will take better care of you than the other party.

[WangTa]

Originally Posted by bkwon327

$5300 for rear bumper refinish seems absurd. Based on your description of impact and damage, the bodyshop is clearly trying to rip off the insurance company. With that said, next time, go through your own insurance company and pay your deductible. You will be reimbursed for your deductible when the other party assumes full liability. That way you can have your insurance company fight for you instead of you doing the tedious followups and other unnecessary grunt work.

Your current situation is a painful one but I wouldn't worry to much since the other insurance company took full liability. Regardless of how much the bodyshop is charging, you have the right to select your own bodyshop and it's for the bodyshop and the insurance company to work out. Just enjoy your sub-compact rental (assuming you have one) and give it some time.

Thanks guys - Yes, I TOTALLY agree with you all. I should of gone through my own insurance company (Progressive). I initially did call Progressive, and they gave me the choice "you can go through us or Allstate - I would suggest you go through them since they took full liability".

I called Progressive back last week when things looked like I might have to pay out of pocket - they were totally useless. They actually sided with All-state saying "well if you told me you were gonna go to that shop, I would of advised you not too - they are on our list of 'difficult shops'".

bkwon327 - annoying thing is All-state terminated the rental last Friday. They were furious I didn't have my car back, and seemed genuinely suprprised the car was still at the shop. Again, they had not received the "updated bill", and thus thought they had paid off everything. The car shop offered to pay to extend the rental, but I don't trust them at this point so I brought it in on Saturday morning (Enterprise closed at 6 on Friday - I just missed it). Long story short - no car over the long weekend! WTF!

[WangTa]

Originally Posted by Kartelli

Did "Eli's" turn the car over to you? Or is it still sitting in their lot?

Did you call your insurance company to report the accident and give the girls insurance info to them? I think that should be your next step if it hasn't been done.

As far as you are concerned, the payment is between Eli's and Al-State and they need to settle the dispute. Why they are holding your car hostage is strange, they should be documenting what work they have completed to date with pictures and a report to send to Al-State.

Yes, they have the car - and it's coming up on four weeks now.

Yes, I did call my own insurance company on the day of the accident. They suggested I go through all-state since they had assumed liability. That was dumb on my part, but given this is my first accident, I didn't foresee any issues coming up between All-state and X body shop. Who the hell woulda guessed this crap happens??

I bitched out progressive pretty good last week - thanking them for giving me lousy advice. Yes, I had a choice to either go through them or deal directly with All-State, but I'm sure they have been through this before with other people and are aware of what can happen - I would of appreciated a little freakin' guidance as to what to do. I guess I shouldn't expect that from MY insurance company!

[48Laws]

$5300??? Allstate is doing the right thing. That shop sounds like crooks, in my opinion. Too bad you're left in the balance waiting. Good luck!

[Kartelli]

I think your next step would be to approach Eli's and document what exactly has been completed to date, hourly rates, and pictures if possible.

Take the info to 2 other body shops and have them perform a liable estimate even if you have to pay $50-100 for each one. Submit your findings to Al-State to justify the cost Eli is producing. It seems there is a piece of the story missing when it comes to Eli's portion of the paperwork. There was an authorization to proceed for $3300 as you mentioned, why was there no authorization for the remainer? It seems like Al-State closed the file after they paid out, now have to re-open it. I think its time to push some liability back at Eli's.

[LPH]

Originally Posted by WangTa

Hi all - this is my first accident and I need some guidance on what I should do. Let me explain the scenario.

I was rear-ended by this stupid teenage girl a couple months ago while I was stopped at a red light. It wasn't a super hard hit, but hard enough that my glasses flew off my face and onto the windshield. No bodily injury - the car seemed fine, but had some scratches on the back bumper and two holes from the license plate screws on the other car.

Girl's insurance company was All State, so I called them up. They said they were aware of the accident and would take full liability. Cool. I just needed to bring it to one of their review centers to get an estimate - so I did. Estimate came out to $500, which would fix the bumper by simply filling in the holes with some filler and repainting. However, All-State said I could bring it anywhere and they would cover it. So I brought it to a body shop next to my place (Eli's body shop in Los Angeles) that specializes in BMW and Audi. They did an estimate and it was $5300. I made sure all-state was aware of the estimate and they sent a guy out to review the estimate and damage (Eli's took off the back bumper to show underlying damage). Repair commenced afterwards and the repair process began (Dec 23).

Fast forward TWO WEEKS LATER (Jan 7) - I call Eli's to ask "Where's my car". The guy says the car is done but is waiting for the All-state guy to come back out and give final approval and settle the bill. He says they expect him to be out that day or first thing next week. I say, "ok - that's fine". And continue to wait.

Monday comes and goes without word - I call them again (Jan 12), "can I pickup my car?". Again, they say they are waiting on the All-State guy. SO I finally call All-state - they say they already settled the bill - and paid $3,300 on Jan 5th. Interesting, so I call Eli's and tell them this - they acknowledge they received $3,300, but have an outstanding amount of $2,000. I call All-state back and ask why they didn't pay the remainder of the bill. All-State then gets nasty, saying Eli's is overcharging and they refuse to pay the remainder. Also, they say they never received an amended bill (the extra $2,000), which Eli's claimed to have filed a week ago. I find out later, that Eli's officially filed the amended bill with All-state later that day (WTF!?).

So now I'm stuck, without a car and a dispute between All-state and the car repair shop. In order for Eli's to start repairs on the car, they made me sign this waiver that basically says there is a lien on the vehicle for any amounts not paid as it relates to the repair.

Again, this is my first accident and I probably was an idiot throughout the process, but I've been without my car for almost 4 weeks now for a retarded non-fault rear-end accident. What do I do?

That body shop is a rip off, $5300! Even though Allstate said they would cover it, you should have shopped around for a much more reasonable rate. Come on $5300 get out of here. Common sense dictates that is a rip off. Now tell them both your next step is to get your lawyer involved. Talk to the body shop owner as well, and tell him $5300 is highway robbery. I took my car to 3 bodyshops.

[KIS]

Reading this thread is causing PTSD for me. I hate to say this, but you need an attorney to advise you of your options. Without someone looking out for your interests you're in trouble. At the moment everyone seems to have mistaken you for a pinata.

[WangTa]

Originally Posted by KIS

Reading this thread is causing PTSD for me. I hate to say this, but you need an attorney to advise you of your options. Without someone looking out for your interests you're in trouble. At the moment everyone seems to have mistaken you for a pinata.

Agreed. Any idea what type of lawyer? My fiance is an attorney (corporate law), and I know some litigation attorneys. Is this small claims stuff? I have no idea, but am not opposed to having a lawyer write something up.

Yesterday was the day where All-state was supposed to send another person to the shop to resolve this (again, they were unaware of the "updated bill" and just found out about it on Friday). I called the shop around 5 and they said "the all-state guy was here...they were short a good amount so I have to talk to the manager to see what we're gonna do - please call back first thing tomorrow". SO I called this morning - the manager was busy and was supposed to return my call...it's now 1:30 PM. Argh.

[KIS]

Originally Posted by WangTa

Agreed. Any idea what type of lawyer? My fiance is an attorney (corporate law), and I know some litigation attorneys. Is this small claims stuff? I have no idea, but am not opposed to having a lawyer write something up.

Yesterday was the day where All-state was supposed to send another person to the shop to resolve this (again, they were unaware of the "updated bill" and just found out about it on Friday). I called the shop around 5 and they said "the all-state guy was here...they were short a good amount so I have to talk to the manager to see what we're gonna do - please call back first thing tomorrow". SO I called this morning - the manager was busy and was supposed to return my call...it's now 1:30 PM. Argh.

I use a corporate attorney that has a knack for writing a very threatening letter. This is really pretty simple stuff. BTW, how did the body shop justify the $5,300 bill?

[WangTa]

Originally Posted by KIS

I use a corporate attorney that has a knack for writing a very threatening letter. This is really pretty simple stuff. BTW, how did the body shop justify the $5,300 bill?

Ok - I'll look into that but honestly, really don't want to go down that road. But if they piss me off enough, I may very well do this.

I have no idea re the bill - I have no idea how much stuff costs and couldn't gauge myself if this was over/under estimate. All-state saw the estimate, so I assumed it was fine. Is that bad on my part? Honestly, I didn't realize i have to manage every part/communication of the repair process.

[WangTa]

Attached is a detailed order bill that lists the expenses that total $5,300 for those who know how to read these things.

[5erman]

Clearly the people chiming in with "that is a ripoff" never have had an accident in this caliber of car. A year after my new e60 was bought someone rear ended me causing 18k worth of damage when in the exterior it looked like the front and rear bumper (I bumped the car ahead of me when hit) looked like it could be replaced-not so much. ONE angel eye headlamp was 1500. A bumper contains tons of little pieces and underneath parts-5000k is about right

[KIS]

Originally Posted by WangTa

Agreed. Any idea what type of lawyer? My fiance is an attorney (corporate law), and I know some litigation attorneys. Is this small claims stuff? I have no idea, but am not opposed to having a lawyer write something up.

Yesterday was the day where All-state was supposed to send another person to the shop to resolve this (again, they were unaware of the "updated bill" and just found out about it on Friday). I called the shop around 5 and they said "the all-state guy was here...they were short a good amount so I have to talk to the manager to see what we're gonna do - please call back first thing tomorrow". SO I called this morning - the manager was busy and was supposed to return my call...it's now 1:30 PM. Argh.

Originally Posted by 5erman

Clearly the people chiming in with "that is a ripoff" never have had an accident in this caliber of car. A year after my new e60 was bought someone rear ended me causing 18k worth of damage when in the exterior it looked like the front and rear bumper (I bumped the car ahead of me when hit) looked like it could be replaced-not so much. ONE angel eye headlamp was 1500. A bumper contains tons of little pieces and underneath parts-5000k is about right

Actually, I had an accident "in this caliber of car" 3 weeks ago where I was
also rear ended. I did not say it was a rip off, merely I was curious how the bill was almost twice as much as mine.

[masamune]

They spent 46.3 hours painting and repairing a bumper? I'm not sure how much damage there was without pictures, but does that sound typical? Not sure if I would trust a place that can't even spell their own name - "Elis Independant BMW Auto Body".

Either way, good luck OP. I can only imagine how incredibly frustrating this must be.

[IFX]

lol, funny bodyshop....

[48Laws]

Originally Posted by masamune

They spent 46.3 hours painting and repairing a bumper?

Lol. And think it took only a week to build my M3. Parts, Paint, paperwork and all.

[bkwon327]

Originally Posted by 5erman

Clearly the people chiming in with "that is a ripoff" never have had an accident in this caliber of car. A year after my new e60 was bought someone rear ended me causing 18k worth of damage when in the exterior it looked like the front and rear bumper (I bumped the car ahead of me when hit) looked like it could be replaced-not so much. ONE angel eye headlamp was 1500. A bumper contains tons of little pieces and underneath parts-5000k is about right

I have to say you are ignorant.. i'll explain why.

First, the damage OP identified is merely cosmetic in the rear bumper. So angel eye this headlamp that is neither here nor there. Why compare apples and oranges? In the end, bumper is just a bumper. Just piece of fiberglass reinforced plastic no matter 'what caliber of a car' it may be. Even if (which i do not believe it was) the impact was severe enough to damage components for PDC sensors (which is pretty much the only 'little pieces of parts' other than bumper reinforcement) which by the way OP does NOT have based on the estimate attachment, the cost should have been around 3,500 MAX With the new bumper- i know this because I had similar rear ended damage on my previous car with PDC.

Second, Most bodyshops who claim they are "BMW Preferred" are nothing more than greedy shops who think they can get away with ridiculous premium for repair because they 'specialize' in expensive european autos. Real BMW preferred shops usually have deal with local BMW dealerships where they get OEM parts at discount, and in return, they do body repair for the dealership. This bodyshop claims they are "INDEPENDANT". Not independent, independAnt. I seriously doubt these fools have sufficient expertise on modern BMWs. They probably billed all the wasted time they burned through while trying to figure out how to repair the damn thing if they spent 46.3 hours repairing it. For one, they should have never started the work until all bills were settled and disputes cleared. Most bodyshops will typically wait for the insurance company to send out the adjuster, review the estimate, wait for the payment to arrive and process, then begin body work. They DO NOT just begin work, regardless of what the insurance company estimated as cost of repair, and demand more money after the work is done. Also, insurance company cannot simply demand the return of the rental unless the repair service has been fully completed and vehicle is ready for pickup.

Again. This whole situation, as ridiculous as it sounds, must be very painful for the actual owner and I feel for him. The fight should be between the insurance company's adjuster/accounts payable and the bodyshop's SA / billing. They have no right to withold the vehicle as OP has no financial responsibility for the repair. Only mistake OP made is picking out incompetent bodyshop based on a misleading name and it being near his home. Good luck man i hope it works out..

[SlamMan]

I haven't seen a lot of repair shop invoices but this invoice seems to have a lot of nickle and dime charges.