Throttle response....WOW!!!!

RichB · 01-04-2010, 06:11 PM

Just picked up my 2010 e90 M3 tonight from it's long trip back from Euro Delivery. Longest 5 weeks of my life. I was blipping the throttle around 4K RPM on my drive home and the car would leap forward with an impressive force and push my head backward. I was amazed at the responsiveness of the V8. It made me think...how will BMW achieve the instant response with the turbo-6 in the future M3? The throttle responsiveness of my now departed 335i was just noise compared to this beast. I am sure the M engineers will work magic, but imagine there is only so much you can with a TT.

Now it is time to install my winter wheel/tires. It was 3 degrees this morning. Not good weather for the PS2.

M3Alpine · 01-04-2010, 06:36 PM

enjoy

FStop7 · 01-04-2010, 06:38 PM

Don't let the 335i nazis see this

Krozi · 01-04-2010, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FStop7

Don't let the 335i nazis see this

Hahahaha shit shall soon hit the fan.

Finnegan · 01-04-2010, 08:00 PM

duk · 01-04-2010, 08:05 PM

is this with m dynamic/sport on?

RichB · 01-04-2010, 08:11 PM

While it was not my intent, I can see how it may stir up shit with some 335i diehards perusing the M3 forum. I loved my 335i and highly recommend it to most people.

RichB · 01-04-2010, 08:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duk

is this with m dynamic/sport on?

Yes and no. The response is greater with it on.

shoei · 01-04-2010, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FStop7

Don't let the 335i nazis see this

lmfao...

i guess i'm a nazi though... there are some things about my 335 that i miss, i'm not gonna lie... max torque at 1200ish rpm and the gas mileage...

oh, and not having every freakin' rice rocket on the street wanting to race me when i'm in the M... *sigh*

bknight · 01-04-2010, 08:48 PM

I also came from a 335i (which I loved) and had a similar first impression of the M3 (among many other things I love about my new car!)

dimabimmer · 01-04-2010, 09:08 PM

"I was blipping the throttle around 4K RPM on my drive home and the car would leap forward with an impressive force and push my head backward. I was amazed at the responsiveness of the V8."

This is the best description of M3V8 supreme over 335i yet. This is going to be classic!

M3 vert · 01-04-2010, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dimabimmer

"I was blipping the throttle around 4K RPM on my drive home and the car would leap forward with an impressive force and push my head backward. I was amazed at the responsiveness of the V8."

This is the best description of M3V8 supreme over 335i yet. This is going to be classic!

Whats your point

GnokGnik · 01-05-2010, 12:12 AM

I admit, I like the throttle response of a NA engine better from a dead stop (rightly so)...but the next couple thousand RPM, the 335i really pushes you forward...

The M3 picks you up from the 335i's 5kRPM and pushes you even further til the rev limiter.

I am hoping the next M3 will be

1. an E92 M3 from a dead stop to 1k RPM (for DD purposes, not racing) meaning no lag in throttle response.

2. a 335i in the 1.3K-5K RPM range...mostly for MPG and surge of usable power.

3. an E92 M3 from that point on...continuing that surge of power, relentlessly to a moderately high RPM.

MVF4Rrider · 01-05-2010, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

The M3 picks you up from the 335i's 5kRPM and pushes you even further til the rev limiter.

Correction: 2.5kRPM

J08M3 · 01-05-2010, 06:17 AM

Both cars are pretty fast, the M3 is definitely faster. But neither car really pushes you into the seat. What's amazing about the M3 is how it handles and how you can carry high speed through turns. Not neck snapping acceleration. This car is far from a neck snapper in my opinion. If you want to be pushed back in the seat you need to start with something that has way more torque, like at least a C63 or an american muscle car with big torque.

amdmaxx · 01-05-2010, 06:53 AM

Remember Turbo = Torque..
Small turbos spool fast and give u that down low torque..
Large turbos spool a little longer (3k rpm), but then u better strap on - u are being thrown back..
With DI, valvetronic and other modern engine tech, we can see medium size turbos with around 400-500hp, same amount of torque with relatively flat torque cruve from 1500-6000.
you wont have same 8k-9k revving, but you wont miss it with turbos.
Plus the tuning potential will be there..

Quote:

Originally Posted by GnokGnik

I admit, I like the throttle response of a NA engine better from a dead stop (rightly so)...but the next couple thousand RPM, the 335i really pushes you forward...

The M3 picks you up from the 335i's 5kRPM and pushes you even further til the rev limiter.

I am hoping the next M3 will be

1. an E92 M3 from a dead stop to 1k RPM (for DD purposes, not racing) meaning no lag in throttle response.

2. a 335i in the 1.3K-5K RPM range...mostly for MPG and surge of usable power.

3. an E92 M3 from that point on...continuing that surge of power, relentlessly to a moderately high RPM.

novablackm3 · 01-05-2010, 09:39 AM

wait till you try a modded m3 w/ an enlarged intake pipe

e46e92love · 01-05-2010, 09:53 AM

In before the lock......

Cheers,
e46e92

Donbona · 01-05-2010, 09:53 AM

Yes yes... a friend of mine owns a special edition Corvette Z06.. that thing scares the crap out of me....

Quote:

Originally Posted by J08M3

Both cars are pretty fast, the M3 is definitely faster. But neither car really pushes you into the seat. What's amazing about the M3 is how it handles and how you can carry high speed through turns. Not neck snapping acceleration. This car is far from a neck snapper in my opinion. If you want to be pushed back in the seat you need to start with something that has way more torque, like at least a C63 or an american muscle car with big torque.

GnokGnik · 01-05-2010, 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GhostRideTheWhip

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

That's is where I hope ///M will surprise us.

dimabimmer · 01-05-2010, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by M3 vert

Whats your point

My point was a sentimental one.... I thought the description of "m3 throttle response" was a very catchy one... enough to be a part of some M3 ad... or maybe already is?
If you never read Jack London, you wouldn't know what I'm talking about.

adc · 01-05-2010, 06:02 PM

First of all, a big part of the reason why the M3 engine is more responsive to the throttle is the presence of individual throttle butterflies - the 335i only has 1. If you don't believe me, drive any other NA BMW with a single throttle butterfly and you'll see the engine response is not any better than the 335i - in other words, it's not necessarily a function of the presence or absence of forced induction.

I think some people here confuse turbo lag with engine throttle response. My observation was that the 335i definitely had turbo lag, but engine throttle response was very good. A 335i with individual throttles would have similar engine throttle response to the M3, there's no reason to think otherwise.

So about turbo lag... My chipped 335i had measurably more lag under 3500 RPM. But from around 4k-7k RPM it had practically no lag at all and as I've mentioned the engine response was very very good. Which is why for track driving the lag was never that big an issue as I had originally anticipated. You may question why have a torquey engine at all if you still have the rev it all the way, and there's certainly a point to be made there.

I as others here think that the M people can somehow mix together small turbos, DI, individual throttles, valvetronic, magic chicken feet and/or some stout Bavarian lager in a big cauldron and come up with a remarkable new engine for the next M3.

01-04-2010, 06:11 PM	#1
RichB Private First Class 7 Rep 156 Posts Drives: 2010 M3 e90 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	Throttle response....WOW!!!! Just picked up my 2010 e90 M3 tonight from it's long trip back from Euro Delivery. Longest 5 weeks of my life. I was blipping the throttle around 4K RPM on my drive home and the car would leap forward with an impressive force and push my head backward. I was amazed at the responsiveness of the V8. It made me think...how will BMW achieve the instant response with the turbo-6 in the future M3? The throttle responsiveness of my now departed 335i was just noise compared to this beast. I am sure the M engineers will work magic, but imagine there is only so much you can with a TT. Now it is time to install my winter wheel/tires. It was 3 degrees this morning. Not good weather for the PS2.
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

01-04-2010, 06:36 PM	#2
M3Alpine Lieutenant Colonel 52 Rep 1,512 Posts Drives: M4 AW/SO Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Central NJ iTrader: (11)	enjoy
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 06:38 PM	#3
FStop7 I like cars 329 Rep 5,052 Posts Drives: M6 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Newbury Park, CA iTrader: (3)	Don't let the 335i nazis see this __________________ My photostream: http://www.flickr.com/photos/racelap/
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 08:00 PM	#5
Finnegan Dog Listener 703 Rep 7,850 Posts Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Teaching the dog to slalom iTrader: (22)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 08:05 PM	#6
duk ///M 158 Rep 3,195 Posts Drives: 2011 AW/FR 6MT E92 Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Irvine, CA iTrader: (0)	is this with m dynamic/sport on? __________________ 2011.5 AW/FR E92 M3 6MT
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 08:11 PM	#7
RichB Private First Class 7 Rep 156 Posts Drives: 2010 M3 e90 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: St. Louis, MO iTrader: (0)	While it was not my intent, I can see how it may stir up shit with some 335i diehards perusing the M3 forum. I loved my 335i and highly recommend it to most people.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 08:48 PM	#10
bknight Captain 60 Rep 609 Posts Drives: F95 X5M Competition Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: United States iTrader: (0)	I also came from a 335i (which I loved) and had a similar first impression of the M3 (among many other things I love about my new car!)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-04-2010, 09:08 PM	#11
dimabimmer Lieutenant Colonel 148 Rep 1,885 Posts Drives: '11 E92 M3 ZCP 6MT Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Brooklyn to SoHo NYC iTrader: (0)	"I was blipping the throttle around 4K RPM on my drive home and the car would leap forward with an impressive force and push my head backward. I was amazed at the responsiveness of the V8." This is the best description of M3V8 supreme over 335i yet. This is going to be classic! __________________ '11 E92 M3 ZCP SG 6MT Tech Sound USB Heat Cloth Aluminium Sunshade http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=422151
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2010, 12:12 AM	#13
GnokGnik Captain 17 Rep 936 Posts Drives: E92 335i, 997 C2S Join Date: May 2008 Location: SoCal iTrader: (0)	I admit, I like the throttle response of a NA engine better from a dead stop (rightly so)...but the next couple thousand RPM, the 335i really pushes you forward... The M3 picks you up from the 335i's 5kRPM and pushes you even further til the rev limiter. I am hoping the next M3 will be 1. an E92 M3 from a dead stop to 1k RPM (for DD purposes, not racing) meaning no lag in throttle response. 2. a 335i in the 1.3K-5K RPM range...mostly for MPG and surge of usable power. 3. an E92 M3 from that point on...continuing that surge of power, relentlessly to a moderately high RPM.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2010, 06:17 AM	#15
J08M3 Major General 286 Rep 6,007 Posts Drives: 2011 M3 COUPE Join Date: May 2008 Location: NEW YORK iTrader: (8)	Both cars are pretty fast, the M3 is definitely faster. But neither car really pushes you into the seat. What's amazing about the M3 is how it handles and how you can carry high speed through turns. Not neck snapping acceleration. This car is far from a neck snapper in my opinion. If you want to be pushed back in the seat you need to start with something that has way more torque, like at least a C63 or an american muscle car with big torque. __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2010, 09:39 AM	#17
novablackm3 Captain 125 Rep 813 Posts Drives: Performante, G05 M50i, RR SVR Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Northern VA iTrader: (3)	wait till you try a modded m3 w/ an enlarged intake pipe __________________ Huracán Performante 18- Novitec Springs \| RR SVR 19 \| G05 X5 M50i \| E70 11 X5M retired \| Jerez Black E92 10 m3 RE SSK \| AFE Filter \| Fabspeed XFC / Xpipe \| AA ECU 1.5v \| BMW PSW \| Envy Charger \| Megan Exhaust
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2010, 09:53 AM	#18
e46e92love Brigadier General 236 Rep 3,303 Posts Drives: e92 ///M3; X3 (wife's) Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: The East Side of Things iTrader: (0)	In before the lock...... Cheers, e46e92 __________________ "...it's not about the money and not about the brand of the car, it's about handling,performance and passion......And that, no other car has all together like an M3........when you talk about the most complete car the M is invincible." --Tony Kanaan.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

01-05-2010, 06:02 PM	#22
adc Major General 2750 Rep 6,759 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 M3 ED Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: MD/DC iTrader: (12)	First of all, a big part of the reason why the M3 engine is more responsive to the throttle is the presence of individual throttle butterflies - the 335i only has 1. If you don't believe me, drive any other NA BMW with a single throttle butterfly and you'll see the engine response is not any better than the 335i - in other words, it's not necessarily a function of the presence or absence of forced induction. I think some people here confuse turbo lag with engine throttle response. My observation was that the 335i definitely had turbo lag, but engine throttle response was very good. A 335i with individual throttles would have similar engine throttle response to the M3, there's no reason to think otherwise. So about turbo lag... My chipped 335i had measurably more lag under 3500 RPM. But from around 4k-7k RPM it had practically no lag at all and as I've mentioned the engine response was very very good. Which is why for track driving the lag was never that big an issue as I had originally anticipated. You may question why have a torquey engine at all if you still have the rev it all the way, and there's certainly a point to be made there. I as others here think that the M people can somehow mix together small turbos, DI, individual throttles, valvetronic, magic chicken feet and/or some stout Bavarian lager in a big cauldron and come up with a remarkable new engine for the next M3.
	Appreciate 0 Quote