Owners of Multiple Versions of E9x M3's

Powerslide · 12-26-2009, 01:45 PM

On one of the threads I was looking at today I noticed one member has both and E92 and an E93 - just curious as to the following:

1) How many other members have more than one version of the E9X M3; and

2) for those who have the E93 as one of the two versions - how much difference in all aspects of performance (acceleration, handling, cornering) do you notice on public roads (or, if anyone actually does take their E93 to a track, which I'm sure is incredibly rare - what are your experiences there)?

Thanks,

Green///Hell · 12-26-2009, 02:37 PM

Can't speak for the E93 as I've never driven it, but E46 M3 vert to coupe back to back the acceleration and handling in both straights and corners the difference is huge.
Even properly setup on the track they don't quite keep up with each other with comparable drivers.

This year I've seen two different E93's at the track but they were all stock so they wouldn't really make a good comparison against my car at the track. One was in my group, but I didn't see him much, I'm pretty sure we were evenly spaced the whole time but either way its probably good news that neither of us could lap one another. Most every other E92 except a few have been running Rcomps anyway. It's hard to tell but the E93 is still capable of doing its thing. Since it doesn't have a real roll bar but has the roof, they were both allowed to run in NASA and Trackdaze so you should be able to run no problem if that's what you're worried about. Figured I had some input since you're probably local to me.

On the street you wont be able to get close to the limits of handling unless you're driving pretty recklessly, and if you did, you will feel the body roll and weight over an E90/E92. Acceleration you will definitely tell in perfect matched conditions that it is a bit slower as well, but either way I doubt you'll come across a situation where it would matter if you're just cruising around

M3twins · 12-26-2009, 03:06 PM

Having owned both, I may have some insight to your question(s). I moved from the E93 to the E92 a short time ago and can tell you there are fairly significant differences in performance, even in everyday driving. My initial impression of the E92 was that the power delivery (i.e. throttle response) was much more linear, immediate and snappier. You can really feel the weight difference between the two. Steering is also more direct and you can really feel, especially on initial turn-in, the difference in chassis rigidity. Even with the top up I never felt the seamless connection to the road, especially in turns, like I do in the E92. For some reason I also like the sound of the E92 better. I can hear more exhaust than engine noise, obviously due to better roof insulation. I just passed 1200 miles and drove to Grandma's house for Christmas dinner last night and in S5 the shifts were incredible at 6500 rpm. Love this car! I kind of miss having the option for top down driving, but not that much...

Finnegan · 12-26-2009, 03:24 PM

I'll echo what M3twins said and add the following.

I've had both. An E93 6MT (no EDC/no Tech) and currently an E92 DCT (EDC/Tech). Same wheels/tires on both (18s, same rubber, as I swapped kept my 18s from the E93 for my E92). Yeah, call me crazy...I like the 18s and it saved me over a grand on the price.

In a nutshell there are very noticeable differences if you are on a deserted back road with lots of curves. I can only imagine that would carry over on to the track as well. In day to day driving the differences are a bit more subtle--but they are noticeable. Especially if when passing another vehicle; taking evasive action; or in sudden braking situations. The car lumbers a bit more (weight). More details below.

Please note that the following are opinion and I'm not an expert driver or track/autocross veteran. In terms of 6MT vs. DCT I drove a MT for over 30 years, heel/toed very well, and had no issue being in the right gear going into a corner. So the transmission and tires/wheels should be a wash in terms of comparison for the most part (e.g. it's not as if I didn't know how to drive a stick which would cloud things more). I drive the DCT in S2 (smoother) mode pretty much exclusively and my driving style is the same (downshifting, rev points, etc.) as with the 6MT.

The E93 handles quite well. In fact, IMO better than a stock E92 335 in terms of steering feel/feedback, inspiring confidence in turns, and in terms of braking feel, and in terms of ride. The LSD and suspension have a lot to do with that. BMW did a good job of hiding the weight and the springs, dampers, anti-roll bars seem to be up to the job. It's also the most solid vert I've ever been in.

However, it's impossible to get around the extra weight entirely. All that follows is with the top up--with the top down I can't recommend any type of aggressive driving as the weight distribution is "off" and the car loses substantial rigidity.

When pushing things on a back road the E93 tires tend to roll over a bit (increasing the pressure a bit seems to help, but that has a downside as well so I stayed in the recommend pressure range).
Steering feel is not as precise. Rigidity at play here I think.
Bumps/dips in turns are very unsettling to the car in a corner at higher Gs. EDC might dampen this out a bit and this may be a lack of EDC artifact, but I tend to think the weight simply causes more inertia which is the real issue.
The axis of rotation seems to be more toward the rear than towards the center. (I think the weight is still supposed to be 50/50 but it feels this way to me.)
You have to brake harder/sooner in the E93 (weight again); and acceleration (for passing or for coming out of a corner) seems bogged down compared to the E92.
The E93 also seems to be a bit more unpredictable in terms of traction--it's very sticky but seems to "break loose" in corners rather than starting to slide a bit as in the E92. I guess you'd say the traction in the E92 is more progressive/predictable in terms of losing grip.
The E92 is much more rigid and seems easier to "toss" around. Most of that is a pure function of weight; a small part I think is due to structural rigidity.
The "issues", as some might describe them, with low end torque, are more pronounced in the E93. Once out of first this is hardly an issue though...but if you're a torque junky it might be a larger downside. I doubt anyone buying the E93 is looking for the best 0-60s or 1/4 mile times though...but fun/sun yes!

The E93, with the top down, and at WOT is just heaven. And when I had the Gintani "Race" on it....oh my. I do miss that!

Either car is blast to drive; it all depends on what your intended purpose is. If you want to hard-core canyon-carve on weekends; or think you might autocross or track the car; then I'd suggest the E90/92. If you're not going to go that route and want something that will still outrun/out-handle 95%+ of what's on the road the E93 is hard to beat. The E93 re-ignited my passion for driving and as I want to track the car; and I was able to come out okay on the trade, I moved to the E92.

Bottom line, and like I said before, it all depends on what you want out of the car. Either of the three models are a hell of a car.

Powerslide · 12-26-2009, 04:23 PM

Thanks for the feedback from the above-posters - nice to have objective feedback from those who have owned both, and not those who merely make assumptions without having driven both. I'm sure I'd notice the performance difference as well without the extra 450lbs - although I don't think I (or my family) would want to give up the open top option in the summertime - I do admit that sometimes I wonder how much more I might like the E92/E90 from a pure driving dynamics standpoint - esp. after reading the posts above!!

Cytoboy · 12-26-2009, 04:53 PM

I understand that it can be tough deciding amongst so many choices, from multiple makers all over the globe. I shopped hard and took a great deal of time researching my options. As I wanted a convertible daily driver (6MT a must) for under $100K--the E93 was a natural choice. I believe that for the money, it is the best all-around open top combination available in the world. Most importantly for you: make your list of priorities, and if top-down capability is in the top three slots, I suggest you go for the E93. If you don't, you will be wishing you did! Good luck, enjoy, and be safe.

Finnegan · 12-26-2009, 10:20 PM

Powerslide and Cytoboy, it sounds like you made the right decision since the open top is something you (plus family) really value. The E93 is a really is a good performer and there really is nothing like having the top down on nice day or warm evening while hearing the motor sing! It's great fun!

M3 vert · 12-27-2009, 01:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Finnegan

Powerslide and Cytoboy, it sounds like you made the right decision since the open top is something you (plus family) really value. The E93 is a really is a good performer and there really is nothing like having the top down on nice day or warm evening while hearing the motor sing! It's great fun!

+1 I agree, I mean if you are going to be tracking your car a fair bit, I suggest getting the E92 Coupe, with CF Roof.

O/wise the E93 should suffice

White Shark · 12-27-2009, 08:56 AM

Inside Line E93 M3 Review

Pimp Star · 12-27-2009, 05:48 PM

The 4.4 liter V8... Edmunds, you smokin' crack?

quality_sound · 12-28-2009, 02:31 AM

The only seat time I had in a an E93 was during two test drives and then a test drive in an E90 (both DCT) but the difference was night and day. The E93 just wouldn't get out of it's own way. I'm sure it's fine when up to speed but for city driving I don't think I could live with an E93.

TonyCzar · 01-01-2010, 04:03 PM

The E90 has more headroom than either the E92 or E93. My hair touched the roof of the latter two; does not touch in the former.

White Shark · 01-03-2010, 12:14 AM

On the E93, you might need to keep switching radio stations.

E36 M3 convertible & Jazz på NRK P2 Commercial

(According to YouTube user's (user name: ralphjohanson) comment (

), this is Norwegian commercial for NRK Jazz radiostation..)

source:

Nawaaz · 01-03-2010, 01:03 AM

hmmmm....All this discussion makes me wonder how much more pleasure I would get when hearing my full catless exhaust note on an e93 instead.

On second thought, I think I'll keep my e90.

spyderco10 · 01-03-2010, 02:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by White Shark

On the E93, you might need to keep switching radio stations.

E36 M3 convertible & Jazz på NRK P2 Commercial

(According to YouTube user's (user name: ralphjohanson) comment (

), this is Norwegian commercial for NRK Jazz radiostation..)

source:

12-26-2009, 01:45 PM	#1
Powerslide Colonel 1097 Rep 2,286 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago Illinois USA iTrader: (0)	Owners of Multiple Versions of E9x M3's On one of the threads I was looking at today I noticed one member has both and E92 and an E93 - just curious as to the following: 1) How many other members have more than one version of the E9X M3; and 2) for those who have the E93 as one of the two versions - how much difference in all aspects of performance (acceleration, handling, cornering) do you notice on public roads (or, if anyone actually does take their E93 to a track, which I'm sure is incredibly rare - what are your experiences there)? Thanks,
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12-26-2009, 02:37 PM	#2
Green///Hell Colonel 183 Rep 2,872 Posts Drives: 991 GT3, F15 X5, 1199S Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Chicago iTrader: (5)	Can't speak for the E93 as I've never driven it, but E46 M3 vert to coupe back to back the acceleration and handling in both straights and corners the difference is huge. Even properly setup on the track they don't quite keep up with each other with comparable drivers. This year I've seen two different E93's at the track but they were all stock so they wouldn't really make a good comparison against my car at the track. One was in my group, but I didn't see him much, I'm pretty sure we were evenly spaced the whole time but either way its probably good news that neither of us could lap one another. Most every other E92 except a few have been running Rcomps anyway. It's hard to tell but the E93 is still capable of doing its thing. Since it doesn't have a real roll bar but has the roof, they were both allowed to run in NASA and Trackdaze so you should be able to run no problem if that's what you're worried about. Figured I had some input since you're probably local to me. On the street you wont be able to get close to the limits of handling unless you're driving pretty recklessly, and if you did, you will feel the body roll and weight over an E90/E92. Acceleration you will definitely tell in perfect matched conditions that it is a bit slower as well, but either way I doubt you'll come across a situation where it would matter if you're just cruising around
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12-26-2009, 03:06 PM	#3
M3twins Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 249 Posts Drives: 2009 Le Mans Blue E92 M3 DCT Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: SF Bay Area iTrader: (0)	Having owned both, I may have some insight to your question(s). I moved from the E93 to the E92 a short time ago and can tell you there are fairly significant differences in performance, even in everyday driving. My initial impression of the E92 was that the power delivery (i.e. throttle response) was much more linear, immediate and snappier. You can really feel the weight difference between the two. Steering is also more direct and you can really feel, especially on initial turn-in, the difference in chassis rigidity. Even with the top up I never felt the seamless connection to the road, especially in turns, like I do in the E92. For some reason I also like the sound of the E92 better. I can hear more exhaust than engine noise, obviously due to better roof insulation. I just passed 1200 miles and drove to Grandma's house for Christmas dinner last night and in S5 the shifts were incredible at 6500 rpm. Love this car! I kind of miss having the option for top down driving, but not that much...
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12-26-2009, 03:24 PM	#4
Finnegan Dog Listener 703 Rep 7,850 Posts Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Teaching the dog to slalom iTrader: (22)	I'll echo what M3twins said and add the following. I've had both. An E93 6MT (no EDC/no Tech) and currently an E92 DCT (EDC/Tech). Same wheels/tires on both (18s, same rubber, as I swapped kept my 18s from the E93 for my E92). Yeah, call me crazy...I like the 18s and it saved me over a grand on the price. In a nutshell there are very noticeable differences if you are on a deserted back road with lots of curves. I can only imagine that would carry over on to the track as well. In day to day driving the differences are a bit more subtle--but they are noticeable. Especially if when passing another vehicle; taking evasive action; or in sudden braking situations. The car lumbers a bit more (weight). More details below. Please note that the following are opinion and I'm not an expert driver or track/autocross veteran. In terms of 6MT vs. DCT I drove a MT for over 30 years, heel/toed very well, and had no issue being in the right gear going into a corner. So the transmission and tires/wheels should be a wash in terms of comparison for the most part (e.g. it's not as if I didn't know how to drive a stick which would cloud things more). I drive the DCT in S2 (smoother) mode pretty much exclusively and my driving style is the same (downshifting, rev points, etc.) as with the 6MT. The E93 handles quite well. In fact, IMO better than a stock E92 335 in terms of steering feel/feedback, inspiring confidence in turns, and in terms of braking feel, and in terms of ride. The LSD and suspension have a lot to do with that. BMW did a good job of hiding the weight and the springs, dampers, anti-roll bars seem to be up to the job. It's also the most solid vert I've ever been in. However, it's impossible to get around the extra weight entirely. All that follows is with the top up--with the top down I can't recommend any type of aggressive driving as the weight distribution is "off" and the car loses substantial rigidity. When pushing things on a back road the E93 tires tend to roll over a bit (increasing the pressure a bit seems to help, but that has a downside as well so I stayed in the recommend pressure range). Steering feel is not as precise. Rigidity at play here I think. Bumps/dips in turns are very unsettling to the car in a corner at higher Gs. EDC might dampen this out a bit and this may be a lack of EDC artifact, but I tend to think the weight simply causes more inertia which is the real issue. The axis of rotation seems to be more toward the rear than towards the center. (I think the weight is still supposed to be 50/50 but it feels this way to me.) You have to brake harder/sooner in the E93 (weight again); and acceleration (for passing or for coming out of a corner) seems bogged down compared to the E92. The E93 also seems to be a bit more unpredictable in terms of traction--it's very sticky but seems to "break loose" in corners rather than starting to slide a bit as in the E92. I guess you'd say the traction in the E92 is more progressive/predictable in terms of losing grip. The E92 is much more rigid and seems easier to "toss" around. Most of that is a pure function of weight; a small part I think is due to structural rigidity. The "issues", as some might describe them, with low end torque, are more pronounced in the E93. Once out of first this is hardly an issue though...but if you're a torque junky it might be a larger downside. I doubt anyone buying the E93 is looking for the best 0-60s or 1/4 mile times though...but fun/sun yes! The E93, with the top down, and at WOT is just heaven. And when I had the Gintani "Race" on it....oh my. I do miss that! Either car is blast to drive; it all depends on what your intended purpose is. If you want to hard-core canyon-carve on weekends; or think you might autocross or track the car; then I'd suggest the E90/92. If you're not going to go that route and want something that will still outrun/out-handle 95%+ of what's on the road the E93 is hard to beat. The E93 re-ignited my passion for driving and as I want to track the car; and I was able to come out okay on the trade, I moved to the E92. Bottom line, and like I said before, it all depends on what you want out of the car. Either of the three models are a hell of a car.
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12-26-2009, 04:23 PM	#5
Powerslide Colonel 1097 Rep 2,286 Posts Drives: 2018 F80 ZCP Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Chicago Illinois USA iTrader: (0)	Thanks for the feedback from the above-posters - nice to have objective feedback from those who have owned both, and not those who merely make assumptions without having driven both. I'm sure I'd notice the performance difference as well without the extra 450lbs - although I don't think I (or my family) would want to give up the open top option in the summertime - I do admit that sometimes I wonder how much more I might like the E92/E90 from a pure driving dynamics standpoint - esp. after reading the posts above!!
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12-26-2009, 04:53 PM	#6
Cytoboy Enlisted Member 2 Rep 30 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Convertible Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Houston, TX iTrader: (0)	I understand that it can be tough deciding amongst so many choices, from multiple makers all over the globe. I shopped hard and took a great deal of time researching my options. As I wanted a convertible daily driver (6MT a must) for under $100K--the E93 was a natural choice. I believe that for the money, it is the best all-around open top combination available in the world. Most importantly for you: make your list of priorities, and if top-down capability is in the top three slots, I suggest you go for the E93. If you don't, you will be wishing you did! Good luck, enjoy, and be safe.
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12-26-2009, 10:20 PM	#7
Finnegan Dog Listener 703 Rep 7,850 Posts Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Teaching the dog to slalom iTrader: (22)	Powerslide and Cytoboy, it sounds like you made the right decision since the open top is something you (plus family) really value. The E93 is a really is a good performer and there really is nothing like having the top down on nice day or warm evening while hearing the motor sing! It's great fun!
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12-27-2009, 08:56 AM	#9
White Shark First Lieutenant 33 Rep 307 Posts Drives: M3 Civic (Non-ZCP) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Coast iTrader: (3)	Inside Line E93 M3 Review __________________ Last edited by White Shark; 01-03-2010 at 12:16 AM..
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12-28-2009, 02:31 AM	#11
quality_sound 8 tracks of madness 62 Rep 2,735 Posts Drives: Slowly Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: At home iTrader: (1)	The only seat time I had in a an E93 was during two test drives and then a test drive in an E90 (both DCT) but the difference was night and day. The E93 just wouldn't get out of it's own way. I'm sure it's fine when up to speed but for city driving I don't think I could live with an E93.
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01-01-2010, 04:03 PM	#12
TonyCzar New Member 3 Rep 17 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 sedan Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Reno, NV iTrader: (0)	E90 has more headroom The E90 has more headroom than either the E92 or E93. My hair touched the roof of the latter two; does not touch in the former. __________________
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01-03-2010, 12:14 AM	#13
White Shark First Lieutenant 33 Rep 307 Posts Drives: M3 Civic (Non-ZCP) Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: East Coast iTrader: (3)	On the E93, you might need to keep switching radio stations. E36 M3 convertible & Jazz på NRK P2 Commercial (According to YouTube user's (user name: ralphjohanson) comment ( ), this is Norwegian commercial for NRK Jazz radiostation..) source: __________________
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01-03-2010, 01:03 AM	#14
Nawaaz Brigadier General 221 Rep 4,643 Posts Drives: . Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: . iTrader: (0)	hmmmm....All this discussion makes me wonder how much more pleasure I would get when hearing my full catless exhaust note on an e93 instead. On second thought, I think I'll keep my e90.
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