Motor Trend Long term update...

Johndoe · 12-21-2009, 09:02 PM

sorry..if a repost...overall good but yes the dreaded DCT Lag ....

Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3
2009 BMW M3 Front Three Quarters Driver
Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3
December 14, 2009
/ By Ron Kiino/ / Photography by Jessica Germiller

"I developed a love/hate relationship with the M3 after tooling around Southern California," notes senior editor Edward Loh. "I do love the shocking acceleration; this thing embarrasses many true sports cars not just from a light, but from 60 mph on the freeway. Hit the M button, mash it, and you're gone -- just remember to pull back on the right paddle or you'll bang into the limiter in about 1.5 seconds."

And the hate part? "Over speed bumps, in and out of driveways, any motion that puts torsional stress on the chassis induces a creaking noise from the back seat. I also find the seven-speed DCT lacking. Slow-speed, second-gear crawls seem to confuse it, especially if you need to accelerate from said crawl (as in a merging situation)-can't do it smoothly. You either get neck-snapping acceleration or barely any speed."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0aNn54g3x

SpencerM3 · 12-21-2009, 11:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Johndoe

sorry..if a repost...overall good but yes the dreaded DCT Lag ....

Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3
2009 BMW M3 Front Three Quarters Driver
Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3
December 14, 2009
/ By Ron Kiino/ / Photography by Jessica Germiller

"I developed a love/hate relationship with the M3 after tooling around Southern California," notes senior editor Edward Loh. "I do love the shocking acceleration; this thing embarrasses many true sports cars not just from a light, but from 60 mph on the freeway. Hit the M button, mash it, and you're gone -- just remember to pull back on the right paddle or you'll bang into the limiter in about 1.5 seconds."

And the hate part? "Over speed bumps, in and out of driveways, any motion that puts torsional stress on the chassis induces a creaking noise from the back seat. I also find the seven-speed DCT lacking. Slow-speed, second-gear crawls seem to confuse it, especially if you need to accelerate from said crawl (as in a merging situation)-can't do it smoothly. You either get neck-snapping acceleration or barely any speed."

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0aNn54g3x

Fair enough. I mean obviously this is just a 2 paragraph review, but his assesment on the 2nd gear lag in DCT is accurate. That being said I do LOVE this car and am not one of those moan and groners that post all the negative stuff.

TLud · 12-22-2009, 01:11 AM

The part of that article that highlights the best feature of this car is that the total maintenance and wear and tear costs on their demo are $0. We're driving around a car that has 9/10 of the performance of your average supercar, but none of the exorbitant costs of maintaining one. Hard to beat that.

Splinter4784 · 12-22-2009, 02:05 AM

driving the M3 in Traffic. Being Stuck behind cars lagging way under speed, stop and go situations Suck in this Car

This car is meant for open roads

brava09 · 12-22-2009, 02:07 AM

Such a great car

what a pity to have it sitting in the garrage due to deep snow

isabayo · 12-22-2009, 05:07 AM

How is he averaging 16 mpg? The best I got on a tank was low 15's and I don't drive it hard (50/50 hwy/city).

disruptv · 12-22-2009, 08:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by day1yun

How is he averaging 16 mpg? The best I got on a tank was low 15's and I don't drive it hard (50/50 hwy/city).

i avg abt 17.4-18 mpg

i have 4k on the clock

mPlasticDesign · 12-22-2009, 08:42 AM

Seems like the two hates he mentions are easily avoided by getting your M equipped with no fold down seats and a 6MT. Also, having driven my car with an SMG in my E46, there is a skill in operating these automated trannys. I got pretty good at making my SMG do exactly what I wanted with the proper input. The DCT us even easier to drive smoothly, you just need to know what to do and what not to do. Ultimately it is a computer doing the shifts and like all computers, "garbage in garbage out!"

isabayo · 12-22-2009, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptv

i avg abt 17.4-18 mpg

i have 4k on the clock

Whats your driving style? How much of your driving is on the hwy?

GT3 Tim · 12-22-2009, 09:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptv

i avg abt 17.4-18 mpg

i have 4k on the clock

You must have gotten the 6 cyl.

I average about 13.x...ha!

edit: I have fold downs in my E90 and have never heard a peep out of them. Actually, I don't have any interior rattles, etc, etc.

CSanto · 12-22-2009, 10:28 AM

17.1mpg, almost 10k miles. I don't drive too hard I guess

disruptv · 12-22-2009, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by day1yun

Whats your driving style? How much of your driving is on the hwy?

65%highway/35%city

I start off in D3 and when the engine temp warms up to the middle/210 degrees, I throw it into S5 or d5 and leave it there

I have a dct if it makes a difference

Quote:

Originally Posted by GT3 Tim

You must have gotten the 6 cyl.

I average about 13.x...ha!

edit: I have fold downs in my E90 and have never heard a peep out of them. Actually, I don't have any interior rattles, etc, etc.

LOL

I only drive like an animal when there is no one on the road and sadly that rarely happens

808MGuy · 12-22-2009, 11:07 AM

I've found that the 2nd gear crawl issue can be somewhat improved by switching the DCT mode to a less aggressive setting. I typically drive in D5 but going down to D3 or D2 helps it a bit. I don't get any creaks from the seats but I do get an annoying rattle from the iDrive knob.

PoorMan · 12-22-2009, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by day1yun

How is he averaging 16 mpg? The best I got on a tank was low 15's and I don't drive it hard (50/50 hwy/city).

MPG is like auto insurance.. Way too many variables are at play to gauge between individuals.

808MGuy · 12-22-2009, 01:02 PM

I'm averaging 16.2 MPG according to my computer and that hasn't been reset since I had 8k miles. I'm at 18k miles now. I drive in bumper to bumper traffic for about 2 hours everyday.

JCtx · 12-22-2009, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disruptv

i avg abt 17.4-18 mpg

I thought mine was too low at 17.8 mostly cruising at the ton, but with the engine screaming at over 4K rpm, guess it's not too bad. I use my M mostly to travel, and wish it was geared higher; not like a Vette, but it definitely has the power to pull a lot lower rpm, along with much better highway mileage. Oh well; no car is perfect.

And yes, I have A TON of creaks and rattles on this car, and most I can't get to, like under dash, under center console, inside doors, rear seats, and roof. Car has never touched a pot hole, but lots of rough asphalt, where not even the stereo can drown out the noises. I expected low fuel economy and some noises, but not that bad. Time to tackle them one of these days. Good day gang.

!Xoible · 12-22-2009, 01:26 PM

so if this guy got the 6MT he would just love the car. right on.

not sure what "shocking acceleration" he's talking about tho.

ucla1995 · 12-22-2009, 01:41 PM

I wonder if they have the fold-down rear seats and whether that could be the 'creaking' issue.

J08M3 · 12-22-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Xoible

not sure what "shocking acceleration" he's talking about tho.

+1 it's not that quick.

BimmerBoomer · 12-22-2009, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by !Xoible

so if this guy got the 6MT he would just love the car. right on.

not sure what "shocking acceleration" he's talking about tho.

That's because you bought the slower car.

FruitCake · 12-22-2009, 04:20 PM

does this lag still persist in '10??

Finnegan · 12-22-2009, 05:57 PM

Regarding the article, I wonder if: a.) this guy has had the car's software updated; b.) if he's just puttering around in "D" mode.

D mode isn't what I would consider "good". It's okay but just barely. The gearbox responds, but responds slowly. It's okay if I'm trying to eat a burger and drive; otherwise I find it useless and irritating. So if this guy's using "D"....well the issue isn't the gearbox.

S modes are fantastic. Fast, crisp, and you can downshift easily sequentially or through multiple gears. (Especially after the software upgrade I had done last week.) It's possible to merge easily and smoothly in any S mode. The car just has to be in the right gear (e.g. downshift the damn thing and don't leave it in D mode). Trying merging in the wrong gear or in D mode and yeah it stinks. It would stink with a 6MT too.

I suspect the very fact the DCT has an auto mode allows some drivers--maybe this guy--to treat the car like it's a regular auto gearbox. That is a mistake. Use it like it was intended--shift it yourself or use only D when eating and don't expect miracles from D--and the gearbox is wonderful.

Before your flame me, I had an E9x with the 6MT and that was pretty darn good as well--first to second could have been better but it was still darn good. Either gearbox will do nicely--if you use the correct gear.

12-21-2009, 09:02 PM	#1
Johndoe Second Lieutenant 32 Rep 257 Posts Drives: 09 M3 sedan Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Houston iTrader: (0)	Motor Trend Long term update... sorry..if a repost...overall good but yes the dreaded DCT Lag .... Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3 2009 BMW M3 Front Three Quarters Driver Long Term Update 3: 2009 BMW M3 December 14, 2009 / By Ron Kiino/ / Photography by Jessica Germiller "I developed a love/hate relationship with the M3 after tooling around Southern California," notes senior editor Edward Loh. "I do love the shocking acceleration; this thing embarrasses many true sports cars not just from a light, but from 60 mph on the freeway. Hit the M button, mash it, and you're gone -- just remember to pull back on the right paddle or you'll bang into the limiter in about 1.5 seconds." And the hate part? "Over speed bumps, in and out of driveways, any motion that puts torsional stress on the chassis induces a creaking noise from the back seat. I also find the seven-speed DCT lacking. Slow-speed, second-gear crawls seem to confuse it, especially if you need to accelerate from said crawl (as in a merging situation)-can't do it smoothly. You either get neck-snapping acceleration or barely any speed." Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz0aNn54g3x
	Appreciate 0 Tweet Quote

12-22-2009, 01:11 AM	#3
TLud Colonel 108 Rep 2,279 Posts Drives: '12 Golf R Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Texas iTrader: (3)	The part of that article that highlights the best feature of this car is that the total maintenance and wear and tear costs on their demo are $0. We're driving around a car that has 9/10 of the performance of your average supercar, but none of the exorbitant costs of maintaining one. Hard to beat that. __________________ '09 Interlagos Blue E92 M3 (sold to a good home)
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 02:05 AM	#4
Splinter4784 414 little horsies 56 Rep 405 Posts Drives: 2008 M3 Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Beverly Hills iTrader: (2)	driving the M3 in Traffic. Being Stuck behind cars lagging way under speed, stop and go situations Suck in this Car This car is meant for open roads __________________ Race Precision Inc
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 02:07 AM	#5
brava09 Lieutenant Colonel 767 Rep 1,683 Posts Drives: M4C xdrive Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Europe iTrader: (0)	Such a great car what a pity to have it sitting in the garrage due to deep snow __________________ 22 M4 Competition xdrive 19 M5 Competition sold 16 F-Type S AWD sold 11 Audi RS5 Misano Red--sold 08 E92 M3 Jerez Black 6MT--sold 08 E92 335i 6MT traded in for M3
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 05:07 AM	#6
isabayo First Lieutenant 44 Rep 319 Posts Drives: G05 X5 50i M Sport Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: MD iTrader: (7)	How is he averaging 16 mpg? The best I got on a tank was low 15's and I don't drive it hard (50/50 hwy/city).
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 08:42 AM	#8
mPlasticDesign Major General 684 Rep 5,069 Posts Drives: BMW 230i Msport w/LSD Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Astral Projecting: ∞ 23.516 -122 02.625 0242.101 ĕv'rē-hwâr' iTrader: (16) Garage List 2009 Porsche 911 997.2 [10.00] 2019 Hyundai N (Sold) [10.00] 2013 BMW M3 (Sold) [10.00] 2011 1M Coupe (Sold) [8.78] 2008 E90 M3 (Sold) [8.60] 2007 Z4 Mcpe (Sold) [9.50] 2005 BMW M3 (Sold) [10.00]	Seems like the two hates he mentions are easily avoided by getting your M equipped with no fold down seats and a 6MT. Also, having driven my car with an SMG in my E46, there is a skill in operating these automated trannys. I got pretty good at making my SMG do exactly what I wanted with the proper input. The DCT us even easier to drive smoothly, you just need to know what to do and what not to do. Ultimately it is a computer doing the shifts and like all computers, "garbage in garbage out!" __________________
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 10:28 AM	#11
CSanto Brigadier General 636 Rep 3,039 Posts Drives: 2015 BSM/SO M3 Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: New York iTrader: (3)	17.1mpg, almost 10k miles. I don't drive too hard I guess
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 11:07 AM	#13
808MGuy Colonel 220 Rep 2,339 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Oahu, Hawaii iTrader: (3)	I've found that the 2nd gear crawl issue can be somewhat improved by switching the DCT mode to a less aggressive setting. I typically drive in D5 but going down to D3 or D2 helps it a bit. I don't get any creaks from the seats but I do get an annoying rattle from the iDrive knob. __________________ 2016 Porsche Cayman GTS - Sapphire Blue / Black Full Leather Interior / Carrera S Wheels
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 01:02 PM	#15
808MGuy Colonel 220 Rep 2,339 Posts Drives: 2009 E90 M3 Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Oahu, Hawaii iTrader: (3)	I'm averaging 16.2 MPG according to my computer and that hasn't been reset since I had 8k miles. I'm at 18k miles now. I drive in bumper to bumper traffic for about 2 hours everyday. __________________ 2016 Porsche Cayman GTS - Sapphire Blue / Black Full Leather Interior / Carrera S Wheels
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 01:26 PM	#17
!Xoible Banned 837 Rep 46,029 Posts Drives: .... Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: . iTrader: (4) Garage List 2008 M3 [4.00] 2007 335i [9.00] 2008 528i [8.00] 2006 Infiniti - G35 ... [8.00]	so if this guy got the 6MT he would just love the car. right on. not sure what "shocking acceleration" he's talking about tho.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 01:41 PM	#18
ucla1995 Slow and low 59 Rep 636 Posts Drives: M5 Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: USA iTrader: (2)	I wonder if they have the fold-down rear seats and whether that could be the 'creaking' issue.
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 04:20 PM	#21
FruitCake Banned 88 Rep 1,680 Posts Drives: '10 E92 M3 Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Los Angeles iTrader: (19)	does this lag still persist in '10??
	Appreciate 0 Quote

12-22-2009, 05:57 PM	#22
Finnegan Dog Listener 703 Rep 7,850 Posts Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3 Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Teaching the dog to slalom iTrader: (22)	Regarding the article, I wonder if: a.) this guy has had the car's software updated; b.) if he's just puttering around in "D" mode. D mode isn't what I would consider "good". It's okay but just barely. The gearbox responds, but responds slowly. It's okay if I'm trying to eat a burger and drive; otherwise I find it useless and irritating. So if this guy's using "D"....well the issue isn't the gearbox. S modes are fantastic. Fast, crisp, and you can downshift easily sequentially or through multiple gears. (Especially after the software upgrade I had done last week.) It's possible to merge easily and smoothly in any S mode. The car just has to be in the right gear (e.g. downshift the damn thing and don't leave it in D mode). Trying merging in the wrong gear or in D mode and yeah it stinks. It would stink with a 6MT too. I suspect the very fact the DCT has an auto mode allows some drivers--maybe this guy--to treat the car like it's a regular auto gearbox. That is a mistake. Use it like it was intended--shift it yourself or use only D when eating and don't expect miracles from D--and the gearbox is wonderful. Before your flame me, I had an E9x with the 6MT and that was pretty darn good as well--first to second could have been better but it was still darn good. Either gearbox will do nicely--if you use the correct gear.
	Appreciate 0 Quote