M3/M4 vs Mustang GT PP

[WarrENDeatH]

*Hides face from being punched*


Hello, I'm a current owner of a 2017 Ford Mustang GT with the performance pack. For the money, the value is incredible in terms of performance and smile to my face. That being said, I do miss some of the comforts from my previous BMW and have always, always wanted an M car.

With a recent job promotion, a solid income coming in and a settlement on the horizon, I've considered going back and looking at the M cars. The M3 is in the lead simply because babies are on the horizon (2-3 years).

I'm curious to any of those who have driven both of the cars. I've never driven an M car outside of an M235i (which is on the list too for the value).

Any ideas, thoughts, comments will be GREATLY appreciated.

[GOLFFRR]

I would suggest you go test drive a M3 or M4 and go from there. The only way you will know is if you personally experience it. IMO (without being too biased) the M will be a big step above the mustang overall, but thats just me. Go test drive and go from there.
M235 is an amazing car, however totally different animal and size/performance/price compared to a M3/M4

[paliknight]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

*Hides face from being punched*


Hello, I'm a current owner of a 2017 Ford Mustang GT with the performance pack. For the money, the value is incredible in terms of performance and smile to my face. That being said, I do miss some of the comforts from my previous BMW and have always, always wanted an M car.

With a recent job promotion, a solid income coming in and a settlement on the horizon, I've considered going back and looking at the M cars. The M3 is in the lead simply because babies are on the horizon (2-3 years).

I'm curious to any of those who have driven both of the cars. I've never driven an M car outside of an M235i (which is on the list too for the value).

Any ideas, thoughts, comments will be GREATLY appreciated.

I drove the regular GT 2 years ago at the dealership. Visibility wasn't great compared to the M3 and responsiveness and handling was much better in the M3. Not sure about your specific mustang though. Interior is night and day difference and so is the customer service and refinement.

[CloudVIII]

M240i is a better consideration as the B58 engine has a promising future over the N55 in the M235i.

F8x/s55 platform is a top performer in their category.

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by paliknight

I drove the regular GT 2 years ago at the dealership. Visibility wasn't great compared to the M3 and responsiveness and handling was much better in the M3. Not sure about your specific mustang though. Interior is night and day difference and so is the customer service and refinement.

That's too old to compare.

The GT is getting some changes in 2018, as well as a yet to be disclosed power boost.

Also for 2018 the GT PP is getting the magna-ride shocks from the GT350

With the upcoming GT500 and the GT350 going on year 3, some of the tech used is getting trickled down into the refreshed 2018.

I would hold off for a bit until some of the magazines do some testing on it.

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

I've never driven an M car outside of an M235i (which is on the list too for the value).

The M235i is NOT an M car. The M2 is

When you see the letter M before a model number, let's say M550i, M240i, etc. that means they are still the same cars of those series but with an M kit probably to make them *look* like an M car, and a bit more power than their smaller brothers, sort of in between you know, like when you want your car to look like an M and have more power for a daily driver but in no way is it classified as a proper M car. M cars have better power, handling, tune, transmission, the list goes on. that's why they're so much more expensive.

[dr.mba]

I test drove the M3 and ordered my car within an hour of that test drive. Moral of the story is you need to go drive one.

M

[M3lbournE92]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

The M235i is NOT an M car. The M2 is

When you see the letter M before a model number, let's say M550i, M240i, etc. that means they are still the same cars of those series but with an M kit probably to make them *look* like an M car, and a bit more power than their smaller brothers, sort of in between you know, like when you want your car to look like an M and have more power for a daily driver but in no way is it classified as a proper M car. M cars have better power, handling, tune, transmission, the list goes on. that's why they're so much more expensive.

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

The M235i is NOT an M car. The M2 is

When you see the letter M before a model number, let's say M550i, M240i, etc. that means they are still the same cars of those series but with an M kit probably to make them *look* like an M car, and a bit more power than their smaller brothers, sort of in between you know, like when you want your car to look like an M and have more power for a daily driver but in no way is it classified as a proper M car. M cars have better power, handling, tune, transmission, the list goes on. that's why they're so much more expensive.

Your right, but the m235i has proven itself a great value for the money. On circuit the m235i-m240i are faster around most tracks vs the previous generation m3 (e92). If you prefer a car with the size of the e46 and decent performance then the m240i is the car for you. For me, I liked the look and the feel of the f80 which is why I purchased mine. Everyone has different wants and needs, but don't think the m240i isn't special. It's no full out m car but for the price it's hard to beat

[nicknaz]

Go for it OP. It's an awesome sedan.

The recent v8 American cars are a really great value and have the v8 sound.

On public roads your current car has most of the performance of a stock f80

But you want the creature comforts and the sedan body shape so go for it.

[WarrENDeatH]

I think the bland interior isn't great. The gas mileage isn't either, but I know going into an M car not to expect that much of a change. That being said, my 3 series received pretty darn good gas mileage despite beating it up pretty well. It seems like BMW's underrated their HP and gas performance.

I'm struggling to get 17 with my Mustang. Again, it is pretty fun of a car. The stock sound system is awful, and the bone stock interior is bland as hell. It is a fun car, and beautiful to look at though.

The M3 and M4 have long been 'realistic' dream cars of mine.

[basscadet]

I am probably the odd duck here: I've actually owned both cars:

2015 Mustang GT with Track Pack and Recaro seats, all options but glass roof.
2015 BMW M3 with every available option and DCT.

I had the Mustang first, I bought it after someone offered an outrageous price for my GT-R I couldn't pass up. Found myself scrambling to find a car and test drove the Mustang for the hell of it, truly wanted a GT350 but they weren't available yet.

To compare the M3 and Mustang:

All the M3 creature comforts blow-away the Mustang. Big shock, right? But that is ultimately what you're paying for here. 4 door is very handy (why I bought it), and the gas mileage I'm getting ~22 mixed is nice.

That said, from a purely driver's enjoyment perspective, I miss the Mustang. Or maybe it's just the fact I miss rowing my own gears. The M3 powerplant is MUCH more capable than the Mustang's, and the punchy torque is addictive of the turbo car. That said, I feel like I have to drive the piss out of my M3 to make it as fun as the Mustang; meaning, I have to put it in manual shift mode and shift myself and drive like a maniac at illegal speeds. In the Mustang, comparatively, I felt the back end sliding around quite often, losing traction is very common in the Ford. This is 90% the fault of those awful AWFUL shitty Pirelli tires they put on the Mustangs.

If you need a 4 door, if fuel consumption is important to you, and you drive a LOT of city-driving in traffic I think the M3 (DCT) is the better car.

Otherwise, I am just being honest here, I don't think moving to a M3/M4 is worth the difference in price of the vehicles.

[Kooch]

Sounds like you could just put shitty tires on the m and drive easier to slide around more....?

[katit]

Originally Posted by Kooch

Sounds like you could just put shitty tires on the m and drive easier to slide around more....?

Doubt it. It will flash yellow light more and go slower

[WarrENDeatH]

Originally Posted by basscadet

I am probably the odd duck here: I've actually owned both cars:

2015 Mustang GT with Track Pack and Recaro seats, all options but glass roof.
2015 BMW M3 with every available option and DCT.

I had the Mustang first, I bought it after someone offered an outrageous price for my GT-R I couldn't pass up. Found myself scrambling to find a car and test drove the Mustang for the hell of it, truly wanted a GT350 but they weren't available yet.

To compare the M3 and Mustang:

All the M3 creature comforts blow-away the Mustang. Big shock, right? But that is ultimately what you're paying for here. 4 door is very handy (why I bought it), and the gas mileage I'm getting ~22 mixed is nice.

That said, from a purely driver's enjoyment perspective, I miss the Mustang. Or maybe it's just the fact I miss rowing my own gears. The M3 powerplant is MUCH more capable than the Mustang's, and the punchy torque is addictive of the turbo car. That said, I feel like I have to drive the piss out of my M3 to make it as fun as the Mustang; meaning, I have to put it in manual shift mode and shift myself and drive like a maniac at illegal speeds. In the Mustang, comparatively, I felt the back end sliding around quite often, losing traction is very common in the Ford. This is 90% the fault of those awful AWFUL shitty Pirelli tires they put on the Mustangs.

If you need a 4 door, if fuel consumption is important to you, and you drive a LOT of city-driving in traffic I think the M3 (DCT) is the better car.

Otherwise, I am just being honest here, I don't think moving to a M3/M4 is worth the difference in price of the vehicles.

This sentence won't make sense, but that somehow made the decision easier and harder...at the same time.


I love driving my car. Despite it feeling a bit heavy. It doesn't really absorb the road well, but it is fun. It takes a bit to really get to the power though (surge doesn't kick in until about 4500 RPMs).

Gas is atrocious, made worse with city driving that I'm stuck with. Hopefully job relocation helps with that.

Weakest part of the car is the interior. The exterior is beautiful, but the interior feels ridiculously cheap. Sound system is weak, made a bit better by a sub.

[Tacoma]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

The M235i is NOT an M car. The M2 is

When you see the letter M before a model number, let's say M550i, M240i, etc. that means they are still the same cars of those series but with an M kit probably to make them *look* like an M car, and a bit more power than their smaller brothers, sort of in between you know, like when you want your car to look like an M and have more power for a daily driver but in no way is it classified as a proper M car. M cars have better power, handling, tune, transmission, the list goes on. that's why they're so much more expensive.

True and agreed. But none of that disputes his point that the M235/240 isn't an M car.

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by WarrENDeatH

This sentence won't make sense, but that somehow made the decision easier and harder...at the same time.


I love driving my car. Despite it feeling a bit heavy. It doesn't really absorb the road well, but it is fun. It takes a bit to really get to the power though (surge doesn't kick in until about 4500 RPMs).

Gas is atrocious, made worse with city driving that I'm stuck with. Hopefully job relocation helps with that.

Weakest part of the car is the interior. The exterior is beautiful, but the interior feels ridiculously cheap. Sound system is weak, made a bit better by a sub.

Other negatives to the Ford:

1. Steering feedback is too numb. The car doesn't talk to you. Slightly better in the M3 but honestly, I feel that M3 steering feel is too artificially heavy. I have a 2015 and I am not sure if they have corrected/improved this in the 2017s? Still, I much prefer the M3 feel.
2. Body roll and wheel gap. The Mustang sits too high. I had to invest another $1k in getting the car lowered with Koni yellows and springs. This did improve the way the car felt on the road significantly, but it's annoying that a "track package" car had to be modified in this way.

If you think the Ford's stereo is bad, you're right. However, the HK system in my M3 isn't much better. Yes, better clarity up high but the bass is horribly muddy and completely unacceptable for the upgrade system in a luxury car. My 15 year old Acura TL had a better factory system.

[Super Spartan]

Originally Posted by basscadet

Other negatives to the Ford:

1. Steering feedback is too numb. The car doesn't talk to you. Slightly better in the M3 but honestly, I feel that M3 steering feel is too artificially heavy. I have a 2015 and I am not sure if they have corrected/improved this in the 2017s? Still, I much prefer the M3 feel.
2. Body roll and wheel gap. The Mustang sits too high. I had to invest another $1k in getting the car lowered with Koni yellows and springs. This did improve the way the car felt on the road significantly, but it's annoying that a "track package" car had to be modified in this way.

If you think the Ford's stereo is bad, you're right. However, the HK system in my M3 isn't much better. Yes, better clarity up high but the bass is horribly muddy and completely unacceptable for the upgrade system in a luxury car. My 15 year old Acura TL had a better factory system.

so you think the Harman/Kardon System is better than the Shaker System in the Mustang?

Funny how I had a cheap 2009 Lancer GT Ex back in the day that came with a Rockford Fosgate sound system as standard and it sounded much better than the H/K system on the M4

[basscadet]

Originally Posted by Snappy Phoenix

so you think the Harman/Kardon System is better than the Shaker System in the Mustang?

Funny how I had a cheap 2009 Lancer GT Ex back in the day that came with a Rockford Fosgate sound system as standard and it sounded much better than the H/K system on the M4

I do think the HK system is better than the Shaker (which my Mustang had), but not by a big margin. The HK has much better clarity up high than the Shaker. But the Shaker felt more powerful and tighter down low where the HK turns into an absolutely muddy mess with any bass whatsoever. If you like rock and classical, the HK is better. For pop, rap, and electronic music the Shaker was better. I listen to all those types of music, that's just my take on it.

In the end - I think all of these HK systems are complete trash. The old Logic 7 stereo they put in the 2007 335i's was far superior. And I had that Rockford Fosgate system in my Evo X, it wasn't a bad system at all for such a cheap car. Way better deal than this Harmon Kardon!

[rmizzle101]

Never drove a M235i, but my buddy got a 2016 GT and I got an m4. I drove his GT all the time....as you mentioned, GT is an incredible car for the value.

However, the m4 is just another beast in terms of handling and being a all around better put together vehicle. It just feels right. The GT IMO had a lot of power, but it felt extremely heavy and I just didn't feel as safe as I do pushing the m4 to limits. If you can afford the M car, I would go test drive one and go from there.

[amw896]

Originally Posted by M3lbournE92

Your right, but the m235i has proven itself a great value for the money. On circuit the m235i-m240i are faster around most tracks vs the previous generation m3 (e92). If you prefer a car with the size of the e46 and decent performance then the m240i is the car for you. For me, I liked the look and the feel of the f80 which is why I purchased mine. Everyone has different wants and needs, but don't think the m240i isn't special. It's no full out m car but for the price it's hard to beat

Indeed! I have a 235i with BM3 tune and the gap has closed significantly in terms of power and at half the cost!

[TRZ06]

Originally Posted by ramzinajdawi

Never drove a M235i, but my buddy got a 2016 GT and I got an m4. I drove his GT all the time....as you mentioned, GT is an incredible car for the value.

However, the m4 is just another beast in terms of handling and being a all around better put together vehicle. It just feels right. The GT IMO had a lot of power, but it felt extremely heavy and I just didn't feel as safe as I do pushing the m4 to limits. If you can afford the M car, I would go test drive one and go from there.

Again, the OP is looking at a NEW mustang.

2018 has some upgrades suspension wise that does not make it comparable to a 2016

The new GT PP will get the shocks from the GT350, and I'm sure revised sway bars and bushings to match.

[Who's on first]

All things being equal. Up to a certain price range cost difference doesn't matter.

This may be silly... but more often than not when I'm looking for a new car (12-16 months on average) I start counting how many I see on the road in a month.

Nothing bugs me more than going to and from work and seeing two other basically identical cars.

Hence my M4's. I've already started looking at another car last weekend.


It was a 911 Carrera, but in a week I saw four of them.

So now I've moved onto the Targa.

Yes they are the same basic car but it's easy to pick out the differences.

Even that might not be enough of a difference for me.

How many Mustangs do you see in a week/month compared to an M3/4?