Los Angeles *A strange motorcycle accident* !

[///M Power-Belgium]

A strange motorcycle accident in Los Angeles. May 19 , 2017. (last Friday)

The moment when I saw the biker on top of the trunk I thought..WTF ?!?!

Thoughts about the strange situation ?

[Uber Commuter]

That dude (car, not bike) was high as hell... Completely oblivious...

[Ric in RVA]

Target fixation, lack of any discernible brake application and two escape routes available....

I ride. Yes car drivers are idiots, but you have to build that defensive "Offensive Driver" mentality. And not target fixate. Straight in!!!!

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Ric in RVA

Target fixation, lack of any discernible brake application and two escape routes available....

I ride. Yes car drivers are idiots, but you have to build that defensive "Offensive Driver" mentality. And not target fixate. Straight in!!!!

I agree. The rider in my opinion is partially responsible for this. Just had a discussion about the dangers of left turning vehicles and motorcyclists with one of my riding groups. I mentioned my recent time with California Superbike School and how visual skills are worked on just as much as physical. Having been to the school for years, I am still working on something with my visual skills. The key is to develop a good wide view where you're gaining information about your surroundings from your peripheral vision.

In my opinion, that rider was just focused straight ahead and didn't see the movement of that car making multiple lane changes. While the driver of the car was clearly at fault, the rider could have done something to minimize the chances of this happening.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

I agree. The rider in my opinion is partially responsible for this. Just had a discussion about the dangers of left turning vehicles and motorcyclists with one of my riding groups. I mentioned my recent time with California Superbike School and how visual skills are worked on just as much as physical. Having been to the school for years, I am still working on something with my visual skills. The key is to develop a good wide view where you're gaining information about your surroundings from your peripheral vision.

In my opinion, that rider was just focused straight ahead and didn't see the movement of that car making multiple lane changes. While the driver of the car was clearly at fault, the rider could have done something to minimize the chances of this happening.

The dudes in the car were pretty high from smoking too much shit while they crossed the double yellow line...
I'm sure they didn't saw any line at all !
And they only stopped the car because the biker was knocking crazy on the rear window !

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by ///M Power-Belgium

The dudes in the car were pretty high from smoking too much shit while they crossed the double yellow line...
I'm sure they didn't saw any line at all !
And they only stopped the car because the biker was knocking crazy on the rear window !

Yeah, those guys were pretty out of it. I don't know if I would have accidentally put a fist into the guys face by trying to get his attention knocking on the window. "Officer, I didn't realize he had rolled down the window as you can see I was pounding on the rear window pretty hard to get his attention."

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

Yeah, those guys were pretty out of it. I don't know if I would have accidentally put a fist into the guys face by trying to get his attention knocking on the window. "Officer, I didn't realize he had rolled down the window as you can see I was pounding on the rear window pretty hard to get his attention."

This sounds right...

[Beartato]

Why are we blaming the guy on the bike? The idiots in the car made the illegal move. Everyone's so quick to judge but this guy had about 2 seconds to react, he didn't have the luxury like we do of watching it over and over on Youtube to figure out the best plan of action.

As a rider myself I really wanna strangle those guys in the car.

[yousefnjr]

Man. I get nervous being in an SUV with some of these morons on the road. You must have balls of steel to ride a bike in public.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Why are we blaming the guy on the bike? The idiots in the car made the illegal move. Everyone's so quick to judge but this guy had about 2 seconds to react, he didn't have the luxury like we do of watching it over and over on Youtube to figure out the best plan of action.

As a rider myself I really wanna strangle those guys in the car.

Exactly !

[Ric in RVA]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Why are we blaming the guy on the bike? The idiots in the car made the illegal move. Everyone's so quick to judge but this guy had about 2 seconds to react, he didn't have the luxury like we do of watching it over and over on Youtube to figure out the best plan of action.

As a rider myself I really wanna strangle those guys in the car.

No the car is 100% at fault....but as I have told my three sons who all ride.

WHO THE FUCK CARES IF YOU ARE RIGHT AND DEAD????

You as a biker most develop a constant awareness of all the drivers around you and be ready for anything. To find places to put the bike if you are pulled out on, cut off or the like. It will happen and how painful it is is totally up to you in many cases.


The plan here is brake hard. Pick an escape route and go there.


Instead we probably got (rear) brake and no decisive action or recognition that there were options. Target fixation at its finest.


FOCUS YOUR LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO SINCE YOU ARE GOING THERE. NEVER FOCUS YOUR VISION WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO GO AS IT EXCLUDES ALTERNATIVES.


Given that situation I would not have hit that car.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Why are we blaming the guy on the bike? The idiots in the car made the illegal move. Everyone's so quick to judge but this guy had about 2 seconds to react, he didn't have the luxury like we do of watching it over and over on Youtube to figure out the best plan of action.

As a rider myself I really wanna strangle those guys in the car.

As someone who rides, I understand the dangers and I've said the driver of the car is going to be held at fault. But the rider could have done something to mitigate the incident. I can't get into his head, but the mere fact he didn't react nor brake makes me believe he was just focused straight ahead.

As I said, developing visual skills is something no one teaches in any of the MSF classes nor is emphasized in normal conversations between riders. Just saying you go where you look and avoid target fixation is not enough. I can say the number of incidents I've been able to identify and avoid has gone way up since having track training to sharpen my visual skills. Even though being on the track is a controlled environment for the me most part, things happen much more quickly than what normally happens on the street.

My motto is to not have to worry about being right about an incident if the incident never happens.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by Ric in RVA

No the car is 100% at fault....but as I have told my three sons who all right.

WHO THE FUCK CARES IF YOU ARE RIGHT AND DEAD????

You as a biker most develop a constant awareness of all the drivers around you and be ready for anything. To find places to put the bike if you are pulled out on, cut off or the like. It will happen and how painful it is is totally up to you in many cases.


The plan here is brake hard. Pick an escape route and go there.


Instead we probably got (rear) brake and no decisive action or recognition that there were options. Target fixation at its finest.


FOCUS YOUR LOOK WHERE YOU WANT TO GO SINCE YOU ARE GOING THERE. NEVER FOCUS YOUR VISION WHERE YOU DON'T WANT TO GO AS IT EXCLUDES ALTERNATIVES.


Given that situation I would not have hit that car.

Dat hindsight. He had two seconds to react after the car merged over.

Originally Posted by zx10guy

As someone who rides, I understand the dangers and I've said the driver of the car is going to be held at fault. But the rider could have done something to mitigate the incident. I can't get into his head, but the mere fact he didn't react nor brake makes me believe he was just focused straight ahead.

As I said, developing visual skills is something no one teaches in any of the MSF classes nor is emphasized in normal conversations between riders. Just saying you go where you look and avoid target fixation is not enough. I can say the number of incidents I've been able to identify and avoid has gone way up since having track training to sharpen my visual skills. Even though being on the track is a controlled environment for the me most part, things happen much more quickly than what normally happens on the street.

My motto is to not have to worry about being right about an incident if the incident never happens.

Again, this guy had two seconds to move and brake.

My point is we can see all what he could have done after rewatching the video, but hindsight is 20/20. There are things he could have done if he'd have known what was going to happen but this guy isn't a fortune teller, and he had no way of knowing the car was going to merge into his lane (illegally). This could have happened to any of us, and sitting back smugly saying "I'd have done it this way" isn't doing anyone any good, it just fosters that armchair rider mentality where the circumstances don't matter, only what could have been the perfect outcome.

So I ask you: where were his escape paths? Into the center divider? Into the back of the van in the lane to the right?

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Beartato

Dat hindsight. He had two seconds to react after the car merged over.

Again, this guy had two seconds to move and brake.

My point is we can see all what he could have done after rewatching the video, but hindsight is 20/20. There are things he could have done if he'd have known what was going to happen but this guy isn't a fortune teller, and he had no way of knowing the car was going to merge into his lane (illegally). This could have happened to any of us, and sitting back smugly saying "I'd have done it this way" isn't doing anyone any good, it just fosters that armchair rider mentality where the circumstances don't matter, only what could have been the perfect outcome.

So I ask you: where were his escape paths? Into the center divider? Into the back of the van in the lane to the right?

So let me ask you a question. Do you ride? If not, you won't understand. It's a different mindset than what is common among riders that cagers are usually at fault. But after having more training and realizing much of the risk of riding can absolutely be mitigated with enhancing my riding skills versus putting a Power Commander on a bike to get more horsepower or that extra chrome bling bling, I've changed my mindset to say I have a lot of control over the amount of risk I'm exposed to.

One thing I'll say and to address your 2 second comment. If he can't react to an adverse situation on the road quickly enough to avoid it, then he's riding too fast. One thing I can say is per the video, he was going a bit fast entering that section of traffic given the conditions. One of the things I do when I enter intersections with a lot of traffic is to cover my front brake. And if conditions warrant, slow a bit down.

I'm not talking as an arm chair quarterback. I'm talking from a basis of years of street and track riding along with years of being an EMS professional driving an emergency vehicle and having to react to bizarre behavior of other drivers on the road.

[CPWINCH]

Wow this is horrible. The dude had ZERO care at all. Maybe he was in shock but he did not look like he almost just killed someone.

Law suit should be fun

[CPWINCH]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

So let me ask you a question. Do you ride? If not, you won't understand. It's a different mindset than what is common among riders that cagers are usually at fault. But after having more training and realizing much of the risk of riding can absolutely be mitigated with enhancing my riding skills versus putting a Power Commander on a bike to get more horsepower or that extra chrome bling bling, I've changed my mindset to say I have a lot of control over the amount of risk I'm exposed to.

One thing I'll say and to address your 2 second comment. If he can't react to an adverse situation on the road quickly enough to avoid it, then he's riding too fast. One thing I can say is per the video, he was going a bit fast entering that section of traffic given the conditions. One of the things I do when I enter intersections with a lot of traffic is to cover my front brake. And if conditions warrant, slow a bit down.



I'm not talking as an arm chair quarterback. I'm talking from a basis of years of street and track riding along with years of being an EMS professional driving an emergency vehicle and having to react to bizarre behavior of other drivers on the road.

His choices were to go left onto the center divider and possibly go over and get hit by traffic going the other way or crashing into the minivan on the right. That is not his fault. Most humans would have not have the reactions to make a decision like this

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by CPWINCH

His choices were to go left onto the center divider and possibly go over and get hit by traffic going the other way or crashing into the minivan on the right. That is not his fault. Most humans would have not have the reactions to make a decision like this

His other choice was to slow down and be able to have time to react and brake. I didn't say it was his "fault". I'm saying he could have done something to either avoid the incident or mitigate the damage. Based on the still frame of his bike on the ground and him on the trunk, I saw the forks bent. It takes some significant force to bend fork tubes.

What's being lost by many of you all is as a rider, we're making a conscious decision to get on the road with a lot less protection around us. This is one of the reasons why riders call cars cages. With all the idiots on the road that don't take driving seriously, it's that much more important we as riders do what we can to minimize situations like this. There are situations where someone can be doing everything right but still get involved in an incident. But that's definitely not what I see here.

And I'll state this one more time. The "fault" of the incident isn't on the rider. But the rider could have done some things to minimize the damage or to avoid it all together.

[Beartato]

Originally Posted by zx10guy

So let me ask you a question. Do you ride? If not, you won't understand. It's a different mindset than what is common among riders that cagers are usually at fault. But after having more training and realizing much of the risk of riding can absolutely be mitigated with enhancing my riding skills versus putting a Power Commander on a bike to get more horsepower or that extra chrome bling bling, I've changed my mindset to say I have a lot of control over the amount of risk I'm exposed to.

One thing I'll say and to address your 2 second comment. If he can't react to an adverse situation on the road quickly enough to avoid it, then he's riding too fast. One thing I can say is per the video, he was going a bit fast entering that section of traffic given the conditions. One of the things I do when I enter intersections with a lot of traffic is to cover my front brake. And if conditions warrant, slow a bit down.

I'm not talking as an arm chair quarterback. I'm talking from a basis of years of street and track riding along with years of being an EMS professional driving an emergency vehicle and having to react to bizarre behavior of other drivers on the road.

I do ride, I mentioned this earlier.

The irony is astounding with your third paragraph. By talking from experience in hindsight you literally are armchairing this.

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by Beartato

I do ride, I mentioned this earlier.

The irony is astounding with your third paragraph. By talking from experience in hindsight you literally are armchairing this.

No irony. I'm speaking from experience which many of you all haven't even entertained which is he could have done something to either avoid or minimize the damage. You can't deny he was moving at a good clip to hit that car and bend the forks the way he did. Especially when they were going in the same direction which meant his closing speed was pretty substantial.

You'll see it your way and I'll see it my way. I learned a long time ago as a rider I can't keep blaming everyone for situations that happen when I can do something to minimize those situations from becoming an eventuality. If you take a step back and consider thinking with this mindset for just a moment, you might start seeing things a bit differently. But it's up to you.

All the same, ride safe out there as it's definitely a Mad Max world on the road.

[infinitekidM2C]

I want everyone to recognize that the driver's license plate was from Illinois. SOB

[zx10guy]

Originally Posted by infinitekid2002

I want everyone to recognize that the driver's license plate was from Illinois. SOB

[aajjcc]

'i can't beLIEVE you right now dude...'