Car and Driver: Giulia QV v ATS-V v M3 ZCP v C63S

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

And the winner is... Not even close!

Enjoy the read!

[Vincz]

The last few paragraphs sum up the problem with this car...reliability.

[Phatcat]

Benz only needed 22.5 seconds to get to 160?

[einscot]

sounds like they at least settled the "comp pack, yes or no" question

[DocWeatherington]

Makes me wonder if BMW will do a CS M3 as a send off . As the platform still has potential untapped performance, and the market is there. Its a curse/blessing that the F80 only has one more model year left and SOP of 10/18.

[Slimjim8201]

Makes me second guess my decision to forego ZCP with my order just a little bit.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Slimjim8201

Makes me second guess my decision to forego ZCP with my order just a little bit.

If you're not planning on modifying the exhaust, flash tune, suspension, and wheels I think the ZCP is a no brainer. After owning a standard car for 2 years and a ZCP almost a year its night and day. Now if you're doing all of the above its a waste of money IMO.

[Slimjim8201]

Originally Posted by dmk08

If you're not planning on modifying the exhaust, flash tune, suspension, and wheels I think the ZCP is a no brainer. After owning a standard car for 2 years and a ZCP almost a year its night and day. Now if you're doing all of the above its a waste of money IMO.

Longer term, a flash tune is in the plan. I don't, however, intend on fiddling with suspension or exhaust, and I very much wanted the 18" 513Ms.

I'm curious if any non-ZCP owners can relate their experiences with the various updates that BMW rolled out over the years. There were specific changes to the damper settings and maybe other systems that I'm interested to hear about. Wondering if that struck a middle ground between the originally released cars and the ZCP. The majority of the press reviews that bashed the M3 when it released were surely on cars with older software.

[M.a.r.k.u.s]

This is incredibly subjective and you'll get three different results from three different magazines. In the Motortrend head 2 head that just came out, they raved about the comp pack and said that it completely transforms the car and the comp pack equipped M3 is the best M3 by a mile. C&D says it makes the car uncomfortable and hard to live with, which I personally disagree with because I never find mine uncomfortable and actually think it rides fantastic.

Same goes for the performance testing. The last german magazine that tested them has the M3 being the fastest around the track, MT has the Alfa just slightly faster (though they called it a tie) and C&D doesn't have a track time listest, although their acceleration numbers are also different than Autobild for example, which is to be expected.

Point is they are all so close in performance that there is no discernable difference in real life. On a day to day basis, I wouldn't want to sit in the caddy all day because of it's sub-par interior, I wouldn't want to deal with the Mercedes COMAND interface because it's horrible and I wouldn't want to deal with Alfa's system either (although I don't have any personal experience with it) but from what I read, it's far behind BMW's iDrive.

In my opinion, the BMW is also the best looking car of the bunch by a longshot. It all comes down to personal preference however and at the end of the day, these are all awesome machines.

To the people deciding on ZCP vs. non-ZCP, I would highly recommend driving one before making your decision based on an article in a magazine.

[MCarRacr07]

having trouble understanding the issue people have with the tire compounds..
the QV comes stock with the Pirelli Corsa tires. they were not slapped on for the test. it is OEM. frankly I question the practicality of putting essentially R-Compounds on a street car....
that said....in normal everyday driving it is a toss-up...personal preference as the cars are very closely matched...
and in the real world the only place to to have the 2 compete is the track...
and I'm of the school of thought that it will basically come down to the driver...

@Doc. I agree that for me the Alfa purchase was just about wanting something different after 28 years of owning M cars....and finally realizing a dream to own an Italian sports car/saloon.
the key for me will hang on its reliability, durability, dealer service.
I have been watching/reading the threads here about people comparing the 2 & I notice ironically, that the majority of the F80 cars are leases....
IMHO how can you offer an opinion on a car that you drive/rent for a max of 3 years for most, and every service, and issue will be covered under warranty or service?....
all of my M's have been very very good cars over the long haul, from reliability, cost to maintain was normal to me based on the fact they these are high performance cars that require routine & preventive maintenance in order to give you years of satisfaction. the only dog of the bunch was my E92 that was almost lemoned under NYS law....didn't stop me from getting an F80....
just thought I'd throw in my 2 cents as I have experienced both cars..
Regards
M

[dmk08]

With so much being made in the past about how ugly the 666M wheels are I'm surprised no one has mentioned how ugly the wheels on that Alpha are. WTF are those?

[FC]

Originally Posted by dmk08

With so much being made in the past about how ugly the 666M wheels are I'm surprised no one has mentioned how ugly the wheels on that Alpha are. WTF are those?

Are you kidding? Those are gorgeous.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by FC

Are you kidding? Those are gorgeous.

Yes very serious. They are horrible.

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by M.a.r.k.u.s

This is incredibly subjective and you'll get three different results from three different magazines. In the Motortrend head 2 head that just came out, they raved about the comp pack and said that it completely transforms the car and the comp pack equipped M3 is the best M3 by a mile. C&D says it makes the car uncomfortable and hard to live with, which I personally disagree with because I never find mine uncomfortable and actually think it rides fantastic.

Same goes for the performance testing. The last german magazine that tested them has the M3 being the fastest around the track, MT has the Alfa just slightly faster (though they called it a tie) and C&D doesn't have a track time listest, although their acceleration numbers are also different than Autobild for example, which is to be expected.

Point is they are all so close in performance that there is no discernable difference in real life. On a day to day basis, I wouldn't want to sit in the caddy all day because of it's sub-par interior, I wouldn't want to deal with the Mercedes COMAND interface because it's horrible and I wouldn't want to deal with Alfa's system either (although I don't have any personal experience with it) but from what I read, it's far behind BMW's iDrive.

In my opinion, the BMW is also the best looking car of the bunch by a longshot. It all comes down to personal preference however and at the end of the day, these are all awesome machines.

To the people deciding on ZCP vs. non-ZCP, I would highly recommend driving one before making your decision based on an article in a magazine.

Another German magazine rated the Giulia QV way above the M3 ZCP and even above the M4 GTS, so who knows. One thing is certain IMO, the arrival of the Alfa means that enthusiasts have more choice, which is great!

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Yes very serious. They are horrible.

For an Alfa fan, these are wonderful because they were designed as an hommage to the famous telephone dial wheels from their classic times. For the others they may look too "unusual". However Alfa offers another wheel design which is similar to the BBS FI-R (both in 2 colours), which is more than BMW offers for their ZCP, which is a shame in my opinion because these M666 wheels are polarising to say the least.

[myzmak]

Excellent - thanks. Added to the compilation thread.

[dmk08]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

For an Alfa fan, these are wonderful because they were designed as an hommage to the famous telephone dial wheels from their classic times. For the others they may look too "unusual". However Alfa offers another wheel design which is similar to the BBS FI-R (both in 2 colours), which is more than BMW offers for their ZCP, which is a shame in my opinion because these M666 wheels are polarising to say the least.

Well to start I'll say I like the 666m and have got nothing but compliments on them from people. I am about to swap out to aftermarkets but for a few reasons.

BMW now offers black 666m or 437s with the zcp should you want. So options are there.

I guess in the end I'm just not an Alfa styling fan. I also don't like the front or the 4 leaf clover on the side.

[No Boost]

That 123 trap by the 63S is redicerus.

[Mako]

I never understand their point system, like how did the ATS-V get 1 point higher than the M3 for 1/4 mile time when they were both 12.2??? How is there a 2 point difference in acceleration when the M3 goes 5-60 in 4.3 and the Alfa in 4.2 while 50-70 the BMW crushes the alfa? if anything it should get a 1 point bonus for the 0-60 track start time but 2 points, really? Features/amenities, a 5 for the M3 vs 10 for Merc and 9 for Cadillac? As tested price includes Ceramic brakes, again they need to look at prices with similar features not base a score on the sticker of the exact car they were given. Transmission, a 7 for the DCT vs a 10 for Alfa's 8 speed (so they are saying its no better than Cadillac's auto?). ride comfort a 6? and driving pleasure a 21?

to me it seems like they tried to score the M3 lower on purpose, seems like if they tested the original M3 without ceramic brakes and no comp package it would have beat the C63S again and come in a close second to Alpa (which I admit is a pretty great car and I am glad there is more competition in the segment).

[FC]

Originally Posted by Paul-Bracq-BMW

For an Alfa fan, these are wonderful because they were designed as an hommage to the famous telephone dial wheels from their classic times. For the others they may look too "unusual". However Alfa offers another wheel design which is similar to the BBS FI-R (both in 2 colours), which is more than BMW offers for their ZCP, which is a shame in my opinion because these M666 wheels are polarising to say the least.

True. Both Alfa wheels are nice, but at least you have choices in case you don't like one.

BMW is finally offering more colors and options too, so that helps.

[Glina]

I'm so glad that I ordered my F80 Competition with 19" 437s

[Paul-Bracq-BMW]

Originally Posted by dmk08

Well to start I'll say I like the 666m and have got nothing but compliments on them from people. I am about to swap out to aftermarkets but for a few reasons.

BMW now offers black 666m or 437s with the zcp should you want. So options are there.

I guess in the end I'm just not an Alfa styling fan. I also don't like the front or the 4 leaf clover on the side.

Good that BMW finally offers choices! I think the M division should take its clients more seriously and offer them several wheel options including carbon fiber wheels (that are now mass produced thanks to the Shelby 350R).