M performance driving school = better use of your car?

[gprgeorge]

I was thinking of doing the M driving school but I would like to know from those who have
attended, did it make you enjoy your car more? Safer driver?

[captainaudio]

Originally Posted by gprgeorge

I was thinking of doing the M driving school but I would like to know from those who have
attended, did it make you enjoy your car more? Safer driver?

I am a much better driver than I was and nowhere near as good a driver as I thought I was.

[M2 Pilot]

captainaudio couldn't have said it better.

[goneloco]

Definitely the safest way to learn your car's limits (and yours) without risking your own car. M2s will be replacing M5s at some point. Plus if you're a BMWCCA member you can take advantage of the 15% discount. It's a blast.

[Never Convicted]

Just do the 1 day. Then you won't be able to think about anything but doing the 2 day. Then all else will cease until you do the advanced at VIR. Then you'll have to do it again. The instructors are Satan. They'll beat you in theirs, then they'll beat you in yours. Great experience.

[aajjcc]

when is it?

[RickFLM4]

For those that attended, how did you deal with the insurance requirement in the waiver you need to sign?

[gprgeorge]

So the two day course is the way to go?

[ontherivet]

Originally Posted by goneloco

Definitely the safest way to learn your car's limits (and yours) without risking your own car. M2s will be replacing M5s at some point. Plus if you're a BMWCCA member you can take advantage of the 15% discount. It's a blast.

Picked up my M3 Friday at PCD. This M2 was there. An instructor said they would be getting their M2's for instruction sometime in June, if I remember correctly.

[Grayblack]

M school is definitely worth it. I'd do the 2 day if you can. It'll teach you the full capabilities of your car.

[domd817]

2 day school is a must. Every second is enjoyable. On top of it all, you come out a much better driver in every aspect. I personally pushed the car a little too hard the first day and lost it a few times. I'm glad I did. You learn the most when your car is facing the wrong direction on the track and instructors are on the radio explaining exactly what you did wrong. Overall I came out with with some new friends, a new appreciation for the car, and an awesome weekend. I can't wait to sign up for advanced M school....and as far as insurance goes. I don't ever remember providing any information. I signed some papers at the beginning but that's about it.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by domd817

....and as far as insurance goes. I don't ever remember providing any information. I signed some papers at the beginning but that's about it.

For insurance I was referring to these excerpts in the waiver:

3. I hold a motor vehicle driver’s license valid in the United States, I am at least eighteen (18) years of age and have liability insurance that covers my participation in this Motor Vehicle Event, and that I am an experienced motor vehicle operator. I have inspected, or will immediately inspect upon entering, any area where a Motor Vehicle Event is taking place and will continuously thereafter inspect any such area which I enter. If at any time I identify or believe any type of condition therein to be unsafe, I will immediately advise BMW officials of such and, if necessary, will leave the area and/or refuse to participate further in the Motor Vehicle Event. I will wear his/her seatbelt at all times while participating in the Motor Vehicle Event.

6. I HEREBY ASSUME FULL RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY RISK OF PROPERTY DAMAGE (INCLUDING DAMAGE TO THE MOTOR VEHICLE), BODILY INJURY OR DEATH ARISING OUT OF OR RELATED IN ANY WAY TO MY ACTIVITIES, PARTICIPATION OR PRESENCE AT THE MOTOR VEHICLE EVENT (INCLUDING, WITHOUT LIMITATION, DAMAGE TO ANY PERSON, VEHICLE OR OTHER PROPERTY BEYOND NORMAL WEAR AND TEAR) WHETHER CAUSED BY THE NEGLIGENCE OF RELEASEES OR OTHERWISE.

I checked with my auto insurance company (Liberty Mutual) and coverage is not extended to something like this. I also looked into track day insurance but the only thing I found is coverage for my own car if I was using it for a track day. So I was wondering if anyone else had a source of insurance because I'd like to attend but won't sign the waiver without insurance...

[Chez]

Following. I'd like to know more about the insurance situation.

[gearboxtrouble]

captainaudio hit the nail on the head.

I did the 2 day m school in Greenville and it was the best track experience I've ever had. The location, facilities, hotel, instructors, cars and seat time are all second to none. Only ~30% of my class owned BMWs, there were actually more Porsche owners which should tell you all you need to know about how well regarded the class is. I counted at least 8 hours of seat time in M3s, 4s and 5s (this was 2 months ago - they might have moved on to M2s) and the instructors force you to push the cars to the limit. The corporate/marketing elements are kept to a minimum. Unless you're already a really experienced track pro (I'm not), you will leave the course a better driver but with the humbling realization that your car is way more capable than you are.

The jacket they give you for participating in the course is pretty sweet too.

EDIT: You're not liable for minor damage to the cars. In case of major damage the answer is "it depends". Unless you deliberately ignored instructions, turned DSC fully off on the track (you only do that on the skidpad) or actually engaged in racing/overtaking in the hot lapping sessions you will likely be ok. The instructors told us a story of how a student had a major off at 110 mph into a railing in a M5 but that BMW covered the entire tab because he just braked too late and understeered/snap oversteered into it.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by gearboxtrouble

EDIT: You're not liable for minor damage to the cars. In case of major damage the answer is "it depends". Unless you deliberately ignored instructions, turned DSC fully off on the track (you only do that on the skidpad) or actually engaged in racing/overtaking in the hot lapping sessions you will likely be ok. The instructors told us a story of how a student had a major off at 110 mph into a railing in a M5 but that BMW covered the entire tab because he just braked too late and understeered/snap oversteered into it.

This is consistent with what someone from the performance center told me but unfortunately the waiver provides for blanket liability. I'd be ok with paying for insurance to cover it, or paying extra for the course to cover BMW insurance, but have a hard time signing a waiver with such language while relying on what someone at the center verbally told me. I'm guessing most people just sign it and don't worry about it but I'd prefer to find insurance if I'm going to sign it. Just haven't found any insurance for such situations...

[visi107]

Yeah the language in the waiver is concerning. According to how that is written, not only could you be on the hook for any damage you cause to their car, you could also be on the hook for any damage you cause to the track.
I think it's standard to sign a waiver that if you get injured they aren't responsible for you but that . . ..

[goneloco]

I've got to admit that I never gave a thought about insurance. The head instructor told us that in 14 years only 5 cars sustained significant damage. He said they dust you off and put you into another car. I considered that to mean you're covered.

[domd817]

When I went I never asked/told my insurance company where I was going nor did BMW ever ask. I'm assuming the language is harsh to deter reckless idiots from signing up and posing a dangerous threat to everyone involved as well as senselessly damaging the vehicles.

[gearboxtrouble]

Yeah me neither. I honestly never read the waiver too deeply. Again, BMW aren't out to ding you for a couple of grand in minor bodywork/wheel damage when they have a factory next door that will fix anything. Moneyshifting is impossible because all the cars are DCT. That leaves the one fast sweeper with a railing as the only spot you can do major damage - everything else has massive runoff areas. In my experience the radius is so wide and the banking is noticeably inward that it would be really hard to simply understeer into the railing. Gunning a 500tq M5 at 90 mph in a decreasing radius corner isn't a particularly rational move and you'd likely deserve to pay the damages that would result from it.

To the OP i wouldn't let this put you off. The instruction is extremely good and they'll make sure you don't do something that stupid. If you still don't have confidence in your abilities to handle it you shouldn't have bought a M car imo.

[Evangelo2]

How much does the 2 day course cost if you are doing PDC delivery? Also, I live in NY and wouldn't mind driving the car back but it would be nice to have a good XPel or clear bra on for the drive back. Is that possible there?
-Evangelo2

[SD ///M4]

My wife and I both did the 2 Day M School in October 2015. She was the one that wanted to do it the most since I did the Skip Barber 3-day Racing School at Laguna Seca in 2001 (a birthday gift from her). But I gladly agreed to join her and we both had an awesome experience.

As others have testified, everything about the experience is top notch, starting from the check-in at the Greenville Marriott all the way through the final hot laps with an instructor driving. The staff at the Marriott knows why you're there and they bend over backwards to make you feel welcome and that you're enjoying your stay. BTW, you'll have a nice little surprise waiting in your room when you return from dinner the first night!

Everyone in the class bonded right away and was very friendly. The course will be most beneficial if you've never been on a track before as the instructors will coach you through everything, probably beyond your comfort zone, and are very supportive. Even if you're a track junkie they'll just make sure that you know what you're doing and then pretty much make sure you don't push things too hard.

As for the insurance, my wife and I never gave it a thought.

As someone else mentioned, if you're a BMW CCA member, you get 15% off. If you're not a member yet, sign up first (only $48/year) and you'll save enough money to pay your membership for at least the next decade!

[SD ///M4]

Originally Posted by Evangelo2

How much does the 2 day course cost if you are doing PDC delivery? Also, I live in NY and wouldn't mind driving the car back but it would be nice to have a good XPel or clear bra on for the drive back. Is that possible there?
-Evangelo2

The cost is $3995 for the 2-Day M School, regardless of whether you do PCD or not. Join BMW CCA for $48/year and get 15% off and pay just $3,395, a savings of $600!