Source for replacement Throttle Body Actuator Gears?

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 04:42 PM

Well chums, it appears I may have a faulty actuator... got the "Christmas tree" of Check Control errors last night, which sometimes goes away on a restart.

I'm going to scan the car ASAP in case it's a faulty battery or something else (I believe battery in car is original), but assuming it is the actuator:

- car had one replaced at 111,000 km. Not sure which. Still looking into that.

- a gentleman in the UK makes replacement gears out of delrin and brass for lifetime longevity, see here:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94742

I've sent him a message to find out if he has any sets left... and I figure I'll replace both sides while I've got the plenum off (and change the plugs while I have easy access).

Canadian dealers want $1600 +taxes for a single actuator, compared to about $800 US stateside for one (insanity!), so if I can refurb them instead, it's a no-brainer to me.

Read the DIY here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735033 - pretty simple how-to, nothing crazy here.

My ultimate question:
Is there a source in North America for replacement or upgraded gears??

anom3 · 05-22-2015, 04:51 PM

One thing to keep in mind is I have read a few posts that had actuator issues, and it turns out the gears were just fine... But the electronics were not.

I may be wrong, but it may be prudent to have a look inside to make sure the gears are in fact the issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by richinvan

Well chums, it appears I may have a faulty actuator... got the "Christmas tree" of Check Control errors last night, which sometimes goes away on a restart.

I'm going to scan the car ASAP in case it's a faulty battery or something else (I believe battery in car is original), but assuming it is the actuator:

- car had one replaced at 111,000 km. Not sure which. Still looking into that.

- a gentleman in the UK makes replacement gears out of delrin and brass for lifetime longevity, see here:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94742

I've sent him a message to find out if he has any sets left... and I figure I'll replace both sides while I've got the plenum off (and change the plugs while I have easy access).

Canadian dealers want $1600 +taxes for a single actuator, compared to about $800 US stateside for one (insanity!), so if I can refurb them instead, it's a no-brainer to me.

Read the DIY here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735033 - pretty simple how-to, nothing crazy here.

My ultimate question:
Is there a source in North America for replacement or upgraded gears??

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anom3

One thing to keep in mind is I have read a few posts that had actuator issues, and it turns out the gears were just fine... But the electronics were not.

I may be wrong, but it may be prudent to have a look inside to make sure the gears are in fact the issue.

Yes, I've read that electronics failures can happen, but are limited to about 10% of cases (also that the dealers will, in true modern BMW fashion, immediately lean towards claiming the electrics are the issue).

I'll play the odds and assume the gears are wearing excessively... but in either case, if the codes thrown are showing actuator issues, I'll pull them, open them up and inspect.

In any case, if I'm going to dig into this, I might as well future-proof them from gear wear failure... which again leads me to my original question above.

Beemdog · 05-22-2015, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anom3

One thing to keep in mind is I have read a few posts that had actuator issues, and it turns out the gears were just fine... But the electronics were not.

Correct, a few have had issues with the motor driver FETs overheating and burning out. Theory was that the worn gears might have caused the control loop to be continuously hunting back and forth for position, thereby over-heating the drive FETs. That's just a theory, though. The FETs were visibly browned due to the over-heating on the pics I saw. They are cheap to replace at under $3 apiece from online sellers like Digi-Key, but requires someone with the ability and soldering equipment for replacing surface-mount components.

So it is possible that even with new gears to still have a problem with the electronics part of the actuator. However, it appears that any S65 actuator with significant mileage on it (say, greater than 60k miles) will likely have visibly worn gear teeth in the most frequently used areas.

All that said if you buy replacement gears and it doesn't fix the problem, you could re-sell the new gears on this forum I'd bet.

Flying Ace · 05-22-2015, 05:21 PM

you want OEM replacement or a manufactured upgraded part? OEM replacements can be found on various dealer online sites. There's a neat search feature that queries many dealers with 1 p/n search. let me know if you need this source.

Beemdog · 05-22-2015, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

you want OEM replacement or a manufactured upgraded part? OEM replacements can be found on various dealer online sites. There's a neat search feature that queries many dealers with 1 p/n search. let me know if you need this source.

Yep, but BMW doesn't sell parts to these actuators-- just the whole assembly. The aftermarket gears were developed by an outfit in the UK just for BMW throttle actuator failures. Haven't seen anyone producing them here in the US.

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Ace

you want OEM replacement or a manufactured upgraded part? OEM replacements can be found on various dealer online sites. There's a neat search feature that queries many dealers with 1 p/n search. let me know if you need this source.

The gears inside aren't intended to be user-serviceable. Only part number that comes up for these is 13627838085 - internals are Siemens/VDO parts.

I can get a complete actuator from all the usual online dealer sites at about $800. Used ones show up on eBay and such... but that just means I'll need to replace them again down the line - I'm hoping to 'rebuild' them to not have to deal with it again.

Flying Ace · 05-22-2015, 05:28 PM

yeah what a pain, it's almost as if we need to set aside $800 every 50k miles to replace these. Oh well, it'll be future-Flying Ace's problem! I just replaced it under my state's 7 year 70k miles emissions warranty.

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 05:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beemdog

Correct, a few have had issues with the motor driver FETs overheating and burning out. Theory was that the worn gears might have caused the control loop to be continuously hunting back and forth for position, thereby over-heating the drive FETs. That's just a theory, though. The FETs were visibly browned due to the over-heating on the pics I saw. They are cheap to replace at under $3 apiece from online sellers like Digi-Key, but requires someone with the ability and soldering equipment for replacing surface-mount components.

So it is possible that even with new gears to still have a problem with the electronics part of the actuator. However, it appears that any S65 actuator with significant mileage on it (say, greater than 60k miles) will likely have visibly worn gear teeth in the most frequently used areas.

All that said if you buy replacement gears and it doesn't fix the problem, you could re-sell the new gears on this forum I'd bet.

Yeah, once I remove them and open it up, I'll check for signs of component issues - I actually work for a large high-tech company, and have access to a bunch of hardware engineers with rework stations and the like... so I might be able to swap out a burned-out FET if that's the case... but *if* the electronics are the issue, I'll swap them out with replacements and if I can get them, do the gear 'upgrade' at once.

I just hate replacing a part with another that is very likely to fail in exactly the same way again, you know?

Beemdog · 05-22-2015, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richinvan

I just hate replacing a part with another that is very likely to fail in exactly the same way again, you know?

I hear that, Rich! Would be nice to have a set of 'lifetime' quality gears that could be swapped in for under a hundred bucks...

PerfM5 · 05-22-2015, 07:56 PM

I just replaced both my TA's from Tisher BMW I believe it was around $1500... Hopefully you can save some serious $$ and do the internal components in-house. Please keep us posted if you find the replacement parts. I'd like to give it a shot as well

Flea7 · 05-22-2015, 08:30 PM

The replacement gears by Alpina are 200 pounds per actuator (about $310). If you have errors at this point and your car is going into limp mode, your electronic may have failed due to the wear of the gears.
One member tried changing out the Mosfet on the electronic board but the replacement failed as well. They overheat.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1068709

IMO, best case scenario is to put in the replacement gears by Alpina into a new actuator unit. ... and that's not a guarantee that in time it will not fail.

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea7

The replacement gears by Alpina are 200 pounds per actuator (about $310). If you have errors at this point and your car is going into limp mode, your electronic may have failed due to the wear of the gears.
One member tried changing out the Mosfet on the electronic board but the replacement failed as well. They overheat.

http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1068709

IMO, best case scenario is to put in the replacement gears by Alpina into a new actuator unit. ... and that's not a guarantee that in time it will not fail.

The car keeps going into and out of limp mode on restarts. I drove it 20km tonight with no issues other than a stuck emissions CEL.

Time will tell when I get it apart, I guess.

Flea7 · 05-22-2015, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by richinvan

The car keeps going into and out of limp mode on restarts. I drove it 20km tonight with no issues other than a stuck emissions CEL.

Time will tell when I get it apart, I guess.

Are you in BC or WA?

richinvan · 05-22-2015, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flea7

Are you in BC or WA?

British Columbia.

X5-User · 05-23-2015, 03:10 AM

If we change the gears as preventative maintenance do we get 100k miles out of it instead of ~40/50k or would the electronics still fail at some point?!

richinvan · 05-24-2015, 02:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bimmer-M3

If we change the gears as preventative maintenance do we get 100k miles out of it instead of ~40/50k or would the electronics still fail at some point?!

After all my reading and research on this it appears that you accelerate the demise of the electronics due to the wear on the gears, so if your electronics are good, there's a good chance you'll not need to worry about them.

I don't think anyone really knows for sure though.

Guy in the UK still hasn't replied to me, so I'll likely end up finding a replacement unit here.

Tried to scan the car today, but the 20pin to OBD2 adapter + GT1/INPA machine I was using wasn't working properly.

anom3 · 05-24-2015, 06:05 AM

On a side note, this TA issue is rampant. From what I can tell every vehicle is affected within the first 50-70K miles.

When I first took my vehicle that had 65000K KM in to have the spark plugs changed after purchasing used, the first thing that the mechanic told me when he popped the top off was "lookie here, looks like one of your TA's have been replaced".

WhatsADSM · 05-24-2015, 09:51 AM

Yea considering the amount of fear spread about rod bearings... This issue seems to be more of a design flaw that will get each and every e9x m3 owner, yet it doesn't get the same sort of attention. I have 60k on my car now and I'm keeping an eye out for this.

A quick google search seemed to suggest Odometergears.com was planning on making a set of replacement gears at one point. Not sure if that went anywhere. Alpinas gears look really nice but to be honest at $310 per side that is really pricey. For a little more than double that you get a whole new actuator with a guarantee it will fix the problem (at least for another ~60k miles)

anom3 · 05-24-2015, 10:00 AM

I agree that Alpinas gears are a bit pricy. I am sure they are an engineering marvel and all, but for two sets, its reaching close to the cost of a single OEM TA (I recall them being about 800USD a pop right?).

The route I would like to take is have one fail, order two sets of gears and fix both at the same time. But seeing as the price is a few hundred from a replacement TA, I may just be better off replacing the failed TA with an OEM one and seeing how much longer the other lasts.

There is also the odd chance that I will end up ordering the gears, replacing them in both TAs only to find out that the electronics are fucked.

This is all theoretical because as far as I know both my TA's are fine now... But at least the best route to take is not so clear with those prices.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhatsADSM

Yea considering the amount of fear spread about rod bearings... This issue seems to be more of a design flaw that will get each and every e9x m3 owner, yet it doesn't get the same sort of attention. I have 60k on my car now and I'm keeping an eye out for this.

A quick google search seemed to suggest Odometergears.com was planning on making a set of replacement gears at one point. Not sure if that went anywhere. Alpinas gears look really nice but to be honest at $310 per side that is really pricey. For a little more than double that you get a whole new actuator with a guarantee it will fix the problem (at least for another ~60k miles)

richinvan · 05-25-2015, 02:34 PM

So I finally scanned the car, and it's the actuator throwing the code, as I expected.

Alpinas in the UK still hasn't replied to me yet, so I'm going another route.

I've found an auto electronics rebuilder who is getting back to me tomorrow (as it's Memorial Day in the USA). They rebuild the M5 ones, so they're just double-checking for me that they can do the M3's - seeing that the gears are identical in the M5 actuators, as is the electric motor, I'm going to cautiously assume that they're going to be able to help.

I'll likely have to ship them my actuator to have them do it - and I'm probably going to have them check both of them.

Hopefully by the time they go again, someone else will have engineered replacement gears to swap in.

I'll keep everyone here informed as to price, turnaround time and results once it's all wrapped up - I've parked the car for now and am driving the E34 M5 instead. Tough life.

utah_ee · 05-25-2015, 03:52 PM

For what it's worth, here is my recent journey with TVA. Apologize for the long post!

About 3 months ago, the first limp mode occurred in my '08 e90. I had 34700 miles on the clock and witnessed the tree of errors.

After some searching around the forums, the errors did suggest TVA. Drove the car the very next day and errors remained, but limp mode gone. Over a few weeks the same pattern happened a couple more times.

I opted to purchase the BT tool to check specific codes to do a little more analysis. The BT tool is great and was worth the $200 in my opinion for general diagnostics. The tool confirmed a bank 1 TVA failure.

I tore down the car and removed the TVAs. Replaced plugs while I was in there. Noticed bank 1 had a very subtle catch about 2/3 through the arm sweep. Suspected gear problems and tore down. Could not see any noticeable gear wear. Checked electronics and there were no noticeable scars or burns from overheated components.

I had stumbled on the M3cutters forum thread regarding the TVA and Alpina whom was making upgraded gears for them. After some discussion with Alpina, I decided to order 1 set of gears. He was very good to work with and very prompt. I knew there would be a chance the gears may not fix the problem but decided to go this route anyway.

Gears arrived in about a week and install with the provided instructions was straight forward. Put the car back together, cleared codes, and test drove. Car behaved as normal. Next morning, limp mode reappeared. When I put the TVAs back in, I had swapped their positions as a check in case the errors appeared again. In deed, this was helpful. I pulled the codes and the error was now in Bank 2. The TVA that threw the original errors but now had replacement gears. At this point I ordered a new TVA.

About another week later the new TVA showed up. Tore down the car and replaced the suspect TVA with the new one. That was 2 weeks ago. The car has been running error and limp mode free. I have driven it more than I usually do to build confidence the new TVA did correct the issue. I am very confident that it has.

I would be happy to go into much more detail about any part of my journey, if it would be helpful.

05-22-2015, 04:42 PM	#1
richinvan Enlisted Member 8 Rep 41 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	Source for replacement Throttle Body Actuator Gears? Well chums, it appears I may have a faulty actuator... got the "Christmas tree" of Check Control errors last night, which sometimes goes away on a restart. I'm going to scan the car ASAP in case it's a faulty battery or something else (I believe battery in car is original), but assuming it is the actuator: - car had one replaced at 111,000 km. Not sure which. Still looking into that. - a gentleman in the UK makes replacement gears out of delrin and brass for lifetime longevity, see here: http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=94742 I've sent him a message to find out if he has any sets left... and I figure I'll replace both sides while I've got the plenum off (and change the plugs while I have easy access). Canadian dealers want $1600 +taxes for a single actuator, compared to about $800 US stateside for one (insanity!), so if I can refurb them instead, it's a no-brainer to me. Read the DIY here: http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=735033 - pretty simple how-to, nothing crazy here. My ultimate question: Is there a source in North America for replacement or upgraded gears??
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05-22-2015, 05:21 PM	#5
Flying Ace Lieutenant General 4985 Rep 11,891 Posts Drives: G05 45e, 997.1 & 991.1 GT3s Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: SF, CA iTrader: (5)	you want OEM replacement or a manufactured upgraded part? OEM replacements can be found on various dealer online sites. There's a neat search feature that queries many dealers with 1 p/n search. let me know if you need this source. __________________ 22 Phytonic/Coffee X5 45e (CoVID-free) 08 Speed Yellow 911 GT3 Sharkwerks 12 AW/Cinnamon X5d Sports Pkg (retired) 14 AW/Beige M6GC ZCP, MPE, V2 steering wheel, vorsteiner (retired) 08 SSII/Black E90 M3 (retired)
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05-22-2015, 05:28 PM	#8
Flying Ace Lieutenant General 4985 Rep 11,891 Posts Drives: G05 45e, 997.1 & 991.1 GT3s Join Date: Jul 2014 Location: SF, CA iTrader: (5)	yeah what a pain, it's almost as if we need to set aside $800 every 50k miles to replace these. Oh well, it'll be future-Flying Ace's problem! I just replaced it under my state's 7 year 70k miles emissions warranty. __________________ 22 Phytonic/Coffee X5 45e (CoVID-free) 08 Speed Yellow 911 GT3 Sharkwerks 12 AW/Cinnamon X5d Sports Pkg (retired) 14 AW/Beige M6GC ZCP, MPE, V2 steering wheel, vorsteiner (retired) 08 SSII/Black E90 M3 (retired)
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05-22-2015, 07:56 PM	#11
PerfM5 Lieutenant 94 Rep 530 Posts Drives: F10 M5 Space, E92 M3 Techno Join Date: Oct 2013 Location: SoCal iTrader: (7)	I just replaced both my TA's from Tisher BMW I believe it was around $1500... Hopefully you can save some serious $$ and do the internal components in-house. Please keep us posted if you find the replacement parts. I'd like to give it a shot as well __________________
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05-22-2015, 08:30 PM	#12
Flea7 Major 112 Rep 1,260 Posts Drives: E92 M3 6MT/F48 X1/F430/F12 Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: PNW iTrader: (6) Garage List 2016 X1 [0.00] 2008 E92 M3 [0.00] 2005 Ferrari F430 [0.00] 2014 Ferrari F12 Be ... [10.00]	The replacement gears by Alpina are 200 pounds per actuator (about $310). If you have errors at this point and your car is going into limp mode, your electronic may have failed due to the wear of the gears. One member tried changing out the Mosfet on the electronic board but the replacement failed as well. They overheat. http://www.m3post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1068709 IMO, best case scenario is to put in the replacement gears by Alpina into a new actuator unit. ... and that's not a guarantee that in time it will not fail. __________________
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05-23-2015, 03:10 AM	#16
X5-User Lieutenant Colonel 188 Rep 1,755 Posts Drives: X5 35d Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: VA iTrader: (2)	If we change the gears as preventative maintenance do we get 100k miles out of it instead of ~40/50k or would the electronics still fail at some point?!
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05-24-2015, 06:05 AM	#18
anom3 Captain 260 Rep 955 Posts Drives: F30 335ix Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Behind the wheel iTrader: (0)	On a side note, this TA issue is rampant. From what I can tell every vehicle is affected within the first 50-70K miles. When I first took my vehicle that had 65000K KM in to have the spark plugs changed after purchasing used, the first thing that the mechanic told me when he popped the top off was "lookie here, looks like one of your TA's have been replaced".
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05-24-2015, 09:51 AM	#19
WhatsADSM Lieutenant 228 Rep 538 Posts Drives: 2011 135i Join Date: Sep 2013 Location: Milwaukee iTrader: (2)	Yea considering the amount of fear spread about rod bearings... This issue seems to be more of a design flaw that will get each and every e9x m3 owner, yet it doesn't get the same sort of attention. I have 60k on my car now and I'm keeping an eye out for this. A quick google search seemed to suggest Odometergears.com was planning on making a set of replacement gears at one point. Not sure if that went anywhere. Alpinas gears look really nice but to be honest at $310 per side that is really pricey. For a little more than double that you get a whole new actuator with a guarantee it will fix the problem (at least for another ~60k miles)
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05-25-2015, 02:34 PM	#21
richinvan Enlisted Member 8 Rep 41 Posts Drives: 2008 E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Vancouver iTrader: (0)	So I finally scanned the car, and it's the actuator throwing the code, as I expected. Alpinas in the UK still hasn't replied to me yet, so I'm going another route. I've found an auto electronics rebuilder who is getting back to me tomorrow (as it's Memorial Day in the USA). They rebuild the M5 ones, so they're just double-checking for me that they can do the M3's - seeing that the gears are identical in the M5 actuators, as is the electric motor, I'm going to cautiously assume that they're going to be able to help. I'll likely have to ship them my actuator to have them do it - and I'm probably going to have them check both of them. Hopefully by the time they go again, someone else will have engineered replacement gears to swap in. I'll keep everyone here informed as to price, turnaround time and results once it's all wrapped up - I've parked the car for now and am driving the E34 M5 instead. Tough life.
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05-25-2015, 03:52 PM	#22
utah_ee Private 6 Rep 91 Posts Drives: '08 M3 Sedan 6M Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Utah iTrader: (0)	For what it's worth, here is my recent journey with TVA. Apologize for the long post! About 3 months ago, the first limp mode occurred in my '08 e90. I had 34700 miles on the clock and witnessed the tree of errors. After some searching around the forums, the errors did suggest TVA. Drove the car the very next day and errors remained, but limp mode gone. Over a few weeks the same pattern happened a couple more times. I opted to purchase the BT tool to check specific codes to do a little more analysis. The BT tool is great and was worth the $200 in my opinion for general diagnostics. The tool confirmed a bank 1 TVA failure. I tore down the car and removed the TVAs. Replaced plugs while I was in there. Noticed bank 1 had a very subtle catch about 2/3 through the arm sweep. Suspected gear problems and tore down. Could not see any noticeable gear wear. Checked electronics and there were no noticeable scars or burns from overheated components. I had stumbled on the M3cutters forum thread regarding the TVA and Alpina whom was making upgraded gears for them. After some discussion with Alpina, I decided to order 1 set of gears. He was very good to work with and very prompt. I knew there would be a chance the gears may not fix the problem but decided to go this route anyway. Gears arrived in about a week and install with the provided instructions was straight forward. Put the car back together, cleared codes, and test drove. Car behaved as normal. Next morning, limp mode reappeared. When I put the TVAs back in, I had swapped their positions as a check in case the errors appeared again. In deed, this was helpful. I pulled the codes and the error was now in Bank 2. The TVA that threw the original errors but now had replacement gears. At this point I ordered a new TVA. About another week later the new TVA showed up. Tore down the car and replaced the suspect TVA with the new one. That was 2 weeks ago. The car has been running error and limp mode free. I have driven it more than I usually do to build confidence the new TVA did correct the issue. I am very confident that it has. I would be happy to go into much more detail about any part of my journey, if it would be helpful.
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