2025 Cadillac CT5-V Blackwing Precision Package

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

You find all sorts at the races. All sorts of people and cars.

There's a guy with an ATS-V that shows up here. Great car. Not as good as my SS1LE as far as all out capability (handling, etc.), but still very good and close. Ever see the time for the M5 Comp around a track? It's insane. New M4s even are monsters in that regard and people race those too. Maybe not the people leasing the cars as much.

IME, it's these events that separate the cars you can go out and do this stuff with vs. the ones that are obviously more for show or that have way more fluff than performance. Porsches are usually the standard example of one you can go out and beat on day after day, but these GMs have been serious cars for a while now and there are some other good ones these days.

One cannot have a conversation about car that can go flat out on a track, beat the snot out of, then drive home like a normal car without any repercussions with talking about the big dog in the category, the Corvette. Literally since the C4 came out for 1984 it had been the fastest, most reliable, most capable vehicle for the money, until arguably when the coyote mustang performance packs came out. Sure you could spend more and get a 911 turbo, but unless you were gonna sink 3x the money into your purchase, the base Vette smacked around the base 911 of its year. They usually could smack around the base version of the next 911 gen too.

The only downside to tracking a Vette is staggered wheels on most of the newer ones, it makes it a pain to rotate them. Oh and you usually can't fit a spare set of wheels and tires inside a Vette, so you have to either tow a tire trailer, or drive to and from the event on whatever tires you race with.

[Alfisti]

YOu're forgetting the Camaro with the racing pack. And if we are talking base models from the factory the vette's before the c7 were rubbish around a track, 911 would run rings around them, they were sloppy.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

YOu're forgetting the Camaro with the racing pack. And if we are talking base models from the factory the vette's before the c7 were rubbish around a track, 911 would run rings around them, they were sloppy.

The Corvettes had a lot to make up in handling. It's not that they couldn't go around a track fast...but the ease of which a driver could get that performance made it impractical for most. The chassis dynamics of suspension, steering, nannies and everything else weren't really dialed in. The earlier ones were more in a "numbers game" with the 911.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

YOu're forgetting the Camaro with the racing pack. And if we are talking base models from the factory the vette's before the c7 were rubbish around a track, 911 would run rings around them, they were sloppy.

Looks like you've never driven one.

I've raced two of them, a 92 C4 and a 12 C6 GS. Sloppy does not describe either. I was absolutely annihilating 996s in the C4, and 991s when they first came out in the C6GS.

I can definitely tell you've never been on track with one. They're tight, accurate, balanced, and supremely competent. Admittedly, I prefer racing 911s, because I like how they transfer weight under throttle so much. But 9/10 people would be faster in a Corvette year for year, and find it easier to do so

That said, Corvettes are WAY more fun off track. You can do big smokey burnouts and slide them around corners and all kinds of stuff that Porsche would find immature. And you don't need a computer system to enable it.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

The Corvettes had a lot to make up in handling. It's not that they couldn't go around a track fast...but the ease of which a driver could get that performance made it impractical for most. The chassis dynamics of suspension, steering, nannies and everything else weren't really dialed in. The earlier ones were more in a "numbers game" with the 911.

If by early ones you mean like a C3, sure. Those were legit muscle cars with solid rear axles and barely a chassis. Later cars, nah man. The C4 was so fast and easy it got banned from competitive vs other brands series and had to run a one make race series.

The biggest issue with Corvettes is throttle modulation. People treat throttles like an on/off switch. With Porsche, you have that little detent before you actually hit WOT, and they got serious about driver aids with the 996 because the 993 and previous generations kept killing their buyers.

If you ease into the power on corner exit in a Corvette, it's sublime. If you mash the throttle like a googan, you're gonna trigger active handling or spin out.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

The biggest issue with Corvettes is throttle modulation.

Yeah, because the chassis dynamics weren't great, you didn't have good feedback/warning, you'd swap ends easily when getting on the power, etc. GM nails chassis dynamics NOW, but they had a ways to go back in the days of the C5 and C6.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Yeah, because the chassis dynamics weren't great, you didn't have good feedback/warning, you'd swap ends easily when getting on the power, etc. GM nails chassis dynamics NOW, but they had a ways to go back in the days of the C5 and C6.

That's just totally untrue, lol. The C5/6 chassis gives wonderful feedback, at least with decent tires on it. The OEM Goodyear tires they came with were trash, but a decent set of tires on them and they give you a ton of feedback, a ton of warning, and are super easy to modulate. That chassis is great, you can easily rotate the car as needed by modulating the throttle.

The only OK set of tires that came on the C5/6 were the Eagle F1 Supercar Gen2s, that came on some of the later wide body cars. They weren't great at any temperature less than track hot though, but at track temps they weren't terrible. The Gen1 eagle f1s are in fact terrible in all conditions.

[RM7]

Originally Posted by BlkGS

That's just totally untrue, lol. The C5/6 chassis gives wonderful feedback, at least with decent tires on it. The OEM Goodyear tires they came with were trash, but a decent set of tires on them and they give you a ton of feedback, a ton of warning, and are super easy to modulate. That chassis is great, you can easily rotate the car as needed by modulating the throttle.

The only OK set of tires that came on the C5/6 were the Eagle F1 Supercar Gen2s, that came on some of the later wide body cars. They weren't great at any temperature less than track hot though, but at track temps they weren't terrible. The Gen1 eagle f1s are in fact terrible in all conditions.

Your post/argument started with the C4. Now you're changing the goalposts.

[BlkGS]

Originally Posted by RM7

Your post/argument started with the C4. Now you're changing the goalposts.

I can't speak to the c4 on stock tires, when ingot mine it already had much newer tires than what would have come stock (and thus much better). It's super predictable, and nimble. It's also only 300hp so you can boot it around like a moron more without spinning it. Because the C4 throttle is just a cable, it's supremely compliant to moderating it, that car can be slid around under complete control without any issues at all. Honestly, my C4 is more fun than my C6.

But yeah, compare a C4 to a 993 or 964, the C4 is way easier to drive, way faster, and way more livable.