Improving American Policing

[ezaircon4jc]

How about...

Arrest criminals (including seemingly minor misdemeanors)

Prosecute criminals

Incarcerate criminals.

Rudy was successful doing this in NYC. The problem isn't the police, it's the lack of meaningful enforcement and proper punishment. I know that's hardcore, but tough love actually works!

Flame suit engaged...

[Popo]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

How about...

Arrest criminals (including seemingly minor misdemeanors)

Prosecute criminals

Incarcerate criminals.

Rudy was successful doing this in NYC. The problem isn't the police, it's the lack of meaningful enforcement and proper punishment. I know that's hardcore, but tough love actually works!

Flame suit engaged...

[Nuckle]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

How about...

Arrest criminals (including seemingly minor misdemeanors)

Prosecute criminals

Incarcerate criminals.

Rudy was successful doing this in NYC. The problem isn't the police, it's the lack of meaningful enforcement and proper punishment. I know that's hardcore, but tough love actually works!

Flame suit engaged...

Word!

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

How about...

Arrest criminals (including seemingly minor misdemeanors)

Prosecute criminals

Incarcerate criminals.

Rudy was successful doing this in NYC. The problem isn't the police, it's the lack of meaningful enforcement and proper punishment. I know that's hardcore, but tough love actually works!

Flame suit engaged...

Sure... that would reduce crime, but who cares about reducing crime?

What is actually important is making sure criminals are treated nicely with love and compassion. After all who amongst us hasn't smoked a little too much meth every now and then and tried eating someone's face?? Happens to the best of us.

[LuvMyE92]

Originally Posted by ezaircon4jc

How about...

Arrest criminals (including seemingly minor misdemeanors)

Prosecute criminals

Incarcerate criminals.

I've had some experience with the criminal justice system, as a victim, as an accused, and as a juror.

As a victim, I was robbed at gunpoint in a parking lot. They caught the two kids (one was a juvenile) who had been on a bit of a crime spree that day. After robbing me, they stole a delivery van. I offered them my car (an Infiniti) but like everyone else, they didn't want it, just cash.

I testified in court against one guy, who, after my stunning testimony, took a plea. The other was in juvie court, and the judge was going to give him supervised release. At this point I asked the D.A. if I could speak, and I did, and I told the judge that it was b.s.; that the kid robbed me at gunpoint and this certainly was no deterrent to him. So the judge orders the social worker person to produce a report and submit it in two weeks. I spoke with the social worker afterwards, and she said "I don't want to deal with that kid, he scares me." Long story short, he was sent to juvie detention where he later was on work duty cleaning county offices, and he broke into the Sheriff's office. LOL. Incorrigible, I think is the term.

As an accused, I've (allegedly) exceeded the posted legal speed on several occasions on our nation's highways. All it took to get me off was a couple of hundred dollars. That's not justice. It did slow me down, for a while, though.

As a juror, I got to witness and pass judgement on a man accused of selling and conspiring to sell a pound of meth. He had already pled to selling cocaine, but for some reason decided to fight the meth charge. Even though they had him on video. He was found guilty of all three charges, but I don't know what his sentence was. Hopefully he was deported afterwards, because he was also an illegal immigrant. But that's another thread.

Some of these folks, I don't think anything is going to deter them from being criminals. It's easier than getting a job. We already have (I think) the largest percentage of our adult male population in prison than any other country. Putting another 10 million people in prisons that don't have room for them is going to be very expensive, in many regards. Stronger laws, stronger enforcement and all that are surely needed, but there are more ramifications to the results of that. It's a failure of society that we have so many criminals, which I am, unfortunately, unable to solve at this moment.

I am fortunate that I live in a very safe community, and so I'm largely sheltered from most crime (although my workshop did get robbed a few years ago) and it's not an overriding daily concern for me. Many people don't have that luxury.

We need to solve the problems of drug addiction, homelessness, lack of opportunity for many, and other "social ills" before we can even hope to reduce crime. Yeah, yeah, I know I sound like a bleeding heart liberal, and of course some people don't want to be helped and don't want opportunity and I don't know what to do about them.

Hey, did you all see that news report about the Delaware state trooper who was a victim when some neighborhood kids were performing "mischief" where they ring the doorbell and run away? "Ding, dong, ditch". Apparently (according to the ring camera) this one kid kicked the door and then ran away. Trooper boy chases him down and beats the shit out of him. And arrests him. Some of it is on body cam. Oops, I just read the story I linked to, apparently I got it wrong, another police department caught the kid, then he beat him when he was already in custody.

That was out of hand, he's going to lose his job and probably serve time, and the kid has had two surgeries and will probably resent LEOs for the rest of his life. But I'll bet he never does any more pranking.

[RickFLM4]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

I've had some experience with the criminal justice system, as a victim, as an accused, and as a juror.

As a victim, I was robbed at gunpoint in a parking lot. They caught the two kids (one was a juvenile) who had been on a bit of a crime spree that day. After robbing me, they stole a delivery van. I offered them my car (an Infiniti) but like everyone else, they didn't want it, just cash.

I testified in court against one guy, who, after my stunning testimony, took a plea. The other was in juvie court, and the judge was going to give him supervised release. At this point I asked the D.A. if I could speak, and I did, and I told the judge that it was b.s.; that the kid robbed me at gunpoint and this certainly was no deterrent to him. So the judge orders the social worker person to produce a report and submit it in two weeks. I spoke with the social worker afterwards, and she said "I don't want to deal with that kid, he scares me." Long story short, he was sent to juvie detention where he later was on work duty cleaning county offices, and he broke into the Sheriff's office. LOL. Incorrigible, I think is the term.

As an accused, I've (allegedly) exceeded the posted legal speed on several occasions on our nation's highways. All it took to get me off was a couple of hundred dollars. That's not justice. It did slow me down, for a while, though.

As a juror, I got to witness and pass judgement on a man accused of selling and conspiring to sell a pound of meth. He had already pled to selling cocaine, but for some reason decided to fight the meth charge. Even though they had him on video. He was found guilty of all three charges, but I don't know what his sentence was. Hopefully he was deported afterwards, because he was also an illegal immigrant. But that's another thread.

Some of these folks, I don't think anything is going to deter them from being criminals. It's easier than getting a job. We already have (I think) the largest percentage of our adult male population in prison than any other country. Putting another 10 million people in prisons that don't have room for them is going to be very expensive, in many regards. Stronger laws, stronger enforcement and all that are surely needed, but there are more ramifications to the results of that. It's a failure of society that we have so many criminals, which I am, unfortunately, unable to solve at this moment.

I am fortunate that I live in a very safe community, and so I'm largely sheltered from most crime (although my workshop did get robbed a few years ago) and it's not an overriding daily concern for me. Many people don't have that luxury.

We need to solve the problems of drug addiction, homelessness, lack of opportunity for many, and other "social ills" before we can even hope to reduce crime. Yeah, yeah, I know I sound like a bleeding heart liberal, and of course some people don't want to be helped and don't want opportunity and I don't know what to do about them.

Hey, did you all see that news report about the Delaware state trooper who was a victim when some neighborhood kids were performing "mischief" where they ring the doorbell and run away? "Ding, dong, ditch". Apparently (according to the ring camera) this one kid kicked the door and then ran away. Trooper boy chases him down and beats the shit out of him. And arrests him. Some of it is on body cam. Oops, I just read the story I linked to, apparently I got it wrong, another police department caught the kid, then he beat him when he was already in custody.

That was out of hand, he's going to lose his job and probably serve time, and the kid has had two surgeries and will probably resent LEOs for the rest of his life. But I'll bet he never does any more pranking.

Terrible story about getting robbed at gunpoint. Glad to hear you were able to testify and did so.

We have a property in Asheville where law enforcement has been neutered and it shows. I am convinced there are no real solutions to drug addiction and homelessness and people need to come to grips with that reality. Maybe it can be reduced or better managed, but it seems to me that most attempts fail or make the problem worse. Do we offer free housing to people with no conditions? Then why work? When there are conditions placed on shelter (e.g. no drug use) too many choose to remain homeless rather than meet those conditions. While I do think there are some reforms needed to address serious mental illness, I also think those with serious mental illness represent a much smaller percentage of the population than some try to project. (I don’t count people popping Lexapro or similar for anxiety in daily life as serious mental illness but some count those for stats, for example.)

So I come back to incarceration. I don’t see how you keep the rest of the population safe without locking up criminals, especially repeat offenders and violent offenders. Seems like common sense to me, even with the price tag. I’d rather pay more to keep my wife safer when she walks to her car after work than paying a little less to try to integrate crime-addicts into society, which might not be working one day as she walks to her car. Just my opinion.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by LuvMyE92

Some of these folks, I don't think anything is going to deter them from being criminals. It's easier than getting a job. We already have (I think) the largest percentage of our adult male population in prison than any other country. Putting another 10 million people in prisons that don't have room for them is going to be very expensive, in many regards. Stronger laws, stronger enforcement and all that are surely needed, but there are more ramifications to the results of that. It's a failure of society that we have so many criminals, which I am, unfortunately, unable to solve at this moment.

Ooooh! Me...me...me - pick me - I can solve it!

One word - Australia. Send them there again.

I mean, how much would it really cost to build a facility in the middle of nowhere (Outback) in Australia if you weren't all that concerned about niceties like air conditioning and keeping the 100% lethal wildlife out of the prison? And forget keeping them out, perhaps you even provide helpful tunnels for said wildlife to get in so the inmates get the full experience. Start shipping inmates over on cargo planes. I mean, Con Air was just a movie.

If these jokers were constantly watching their backs against the wildlife actively trying to kill them, and the sun itself doing the same, they'd have no time at all to start talking funny to other inmates and causing riots / killing other inmates. It'd probably be pretty peaceful actually, they'd go to bed exhausted, but they wouldn't sleep, cause that's probably when the snakes might like to snuggle up with them. I'd even be willing to consider a reduced sentence for these people under these conditions - if they make it. And if they don't...meh.

If they make it, probably would have a stronger incentive not to get sent back.

Seriously, it's perfect. Can't see any flaws.

[Llarry]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

Seriously, it's perfect. Can't see any flaws.

1) I like it, but...
2) Last I heard, Australia is a sovereign country which would probably not welcome a few million U.S. lowlifes, middle of the outback or not.

[UncleWede]

Originally Posted by Llarry

2) Last I heard, Australia is a sovereign country which would probably not welcome a few million U.S. lowlifes, middle of the outback or not.

Hence why we just so happen to have Sherriff Joe Arpaio

[dreamingat30fps]

Originally Posted by Llarry

1) I like it, but...
2) Last I heard, Australia is a sovereign country which would probably not welcome a few million U.S. lowlifes, middle of the outback or not.

Fiiiine. Rich people have lots of islands, we hate rich people, let's drop them off there.

Getting shit DONE in the OT! What are we solving next?

[spazzyfry123]

Throwing a different gender at it?

How about actually upholding law rather than nerfing it? I just got back from California and personally watched two people just walk out the front door without paying for items. No rush, no sense of urgency - just a complacent walk out the door as if they just bought a stick of gum. The "new" law says it's cool if it's sub $1000 in value.

[zx10guy]

This whole looking at just numbers and ignoring the requirements of a job is what is one of the reasons this country is in trouble. The shear fact people are still unwilling to recognize the physical differences between men and women is a testament to this. It's a known fact men are just stronger than women. With policing, that strength has to come into play many times to take individuals into custody. Sure women can pose a calming affect on agitated suspects. But so can well trained men too.

Here's an example of what can go wrong with a female officer is by herself trying to control and detain a man. Keep in mind this man is 64 years old. Fortunately, male bystanders jumped in to assist the female officer in controlling this individual. So the obvious solution is to have female officers with a partner when out on patrol. But how feasible is that with all the stupid/idiotic defund the police garbage that has happened? Many police forces don't have the staff to maintain standard service and are suffering from recruitment issues. Having an officer paired up with a female officer takes away from the coverage ability of the department.

And this is a video about how badly just looking to hire anyone can get when officer qualification standards are not being upheld.

[Watching The World Burn]

Originally Posted by Llarry

1) I like it, but...
2) Last I heard, Australia is a sovereign country which would probably not welcome a few million U.S. lowlifes, middle of the outback or not.

I'm sure you could offer them some sort of concessions. Tell them they can turn it into a reality tv show and keep the earnings. I don't know. Have some of their leaders over for a barbie and maybe that's all it would take. Don't know until you ask.

And I do mean in the middle of nowhere. Even if one escapes, said animal isn't making it to civilization before succumbing to the environment.

You haven't yet convinced me this isn't a feasible plan. And so far, no Aussies have chimed in to object, so I take that as a form of tacit approval.

[bosstones]

Originally Posted by Watching The World Burn

I'm sure you could offer them some sort of concessions. Tell them they can turn it into a reality tv show and keep the earnings. I don't know. Have some of their leaders over for a barbie and maybe that's all it would take. Don't know until you ask.

And I do mean in the middle of nowhere. Even if one escapes, said animal isn't making it to civilization before succumbing to the environment.

You haven't yet convinced me this isn't a feasible plan. And so far, no Aussies have chimed in to object, so I take that as a form of tacit approval.

George Carlin had just such a solution/proposal many years ago and it kept it completely within CONUS....so no potential international incidents

Also, I always thought violent crime in Canada consisted of passing fake maple syrup off as real or non-consentual moose tipping.

[Rocket455]

Nothing will change unless we get serious about high-quality and continuous TRAINING. Jocko Willink is on-point. There are more segments than the one below, but what he preaches is makes sense. A majority of cops are going out into the open with hilariously inadequate training, where their actions end up being governed more by instinct than training; unacceptable for a role that demands such a high level of responsibility. Imagine if pilots and surgeons had similar deficiencies. If you don't train for it, you will never be good at it; pretty universal for practically any job out there.

[XutvJet]

I have no issues with women in any role in law enforcement.

It is always interesting to read people's take of crime in the US. Many people in the US and elsewhere in the world believe murder and gun violence make up a majority of crime in the US. No, it doesn't. Try a mere 0.2% of all crime in the US. Murder and gun violence are at the forefront of people's minds when it comes to violence so it is what they, the media, social media, etc. hone in on it.

Violent crime (aggravated assault, murder, rape and robbery) in the US is lower than it was in the 1990s and that includes the uptick in violent crime after COVID. But thanks to the media, social media, body cam footage, etc., we are conditioned to believe that crime is getting worse. The media wants you to believe this to increase their revenue. Sad and frightening news sells. Politicians want you to believe this so that they can get your vote and convince you one party is better than the other at controlling crime.

Locking up all criminals and building more prisons isn't the solution either. It's a narrowed-minded solution to a deeply rooted and complex problem in the US, largely the result of massive income inequality.