Is it too many alpha males that keep #1 drivers from a #2 seat on a top tier F1 team?

[racerbruce]

Is it because of previous explosive relationships (Senna/Prost) etc??

If I was a Team Principal, I would want the two FASTEST drivers, period.

I would ensure their contract includes clause(s) that state if their behavior as defined by on-track and off-track results diminishes the team's brand or breaks the FIA's Sporting Regulations....

You're done....
You're sacked....

I would not allow egos to dictate why, in VERY recent history....an Alonzo, a Ricciardo, etc is not chosen for a top tier team.

[ptack]

The people doing the hiring have different things to consider depending on their goals. If they are a top team, then this is all about winning the constructor's championship for the millions it delivers. That's a team prize so you better have a great team starting with the championship caliber driver. Could you have two? Maybe, but can you afford that? Will it even be necessary if you believe you have the best car and program? Finding great drivers isn't easy because the best proven ones are usually under contract to your competitors. Probably the most effective way is to have your own driver development program to at least ensure a supply of new, relatively inexpensive talent. This is what most top teams do today. Have 1 star and 1 less expensive apprentice. The drama usually happens when the apprentice outshines the master which inevitably happens as racers age. The second tier teams have harder decisions to make because they don't have the resources and know they aren't winning the championship. Their goal is mostly to find and satisfy sponsors so as to live another day until maybe they get someone with very deep pockets. It's always about the money.

[Poiseuille]

hard to have watched Melbourne yesterday and not to have lamented the apparent likelihood that we won't get to see Daniel Ricciardo in a Benz or Ferrari.

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

hard to have watched Melbourne yesterday and not to have lamented the apparent likelihood that we won't get to see Daniel Ricciardo in a Benz or Ferrari.

I still do not understand why he left Red Bull, does anyone really know?

[IllSic_Design]

Originally Posted by MJE60

I still do not understand why he left Red Bull, does anyone really know?

According to the netflix doc he said wanted a change, he had been there all his career and wanted to start fresh. He didn't know about the capabilities of honda powertrains and if they had what it takes to compete. Said he spoke with Renault a bunch and knew the direction and improvements they wanted to make and felt that he would have a good shot at a championship with them.

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by MJE60

I still do not understand why he left Red Bull, does anyone really know?

.

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

.

O.k. But most of the retirements were due to the Renault engine (or MV) . Moving to team Renault has locked him into potentially the same scenario for 2019.

Let us hope Renault find power and reliability this season.

[MJE60]

Alpha Males, So my big question for you all is what about Max V.

In 2018, I appreciated watching someone carve through the field and take risks, he clearly also has talent. However, I also think he is too immature/reckless. I think he got away with many moves because he had nothing to lose and was against drivers who did. His behaviour (one example, multiple moves in braking zone was tolerated because of his age and the excitment he brought to F1). BUT, If the Honda engine delivers he could be fighting for the championship and imho, he will f*c* it up simply because he will expect respect/room which he will not himself give (like he did to Daniel). IMHO, he will be ready in a couple of years time but not in 2019.

Am I wrong? And/or Is this theoretical and the Honda unit not up to the job? IMO, there were a couple of young drivers in 2018 which would have done better in the Red Bull set-up or (are you from Belgium/Holland and not a biased Brit) do you believe Max would have won the 2018 championship, if he had been in a Merc or Ferrari?

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Alpha Males, So my big question for you all is what about Max V.

In 2018, I appreciated watching someone carve through the field and take risks, he clearly also has talent. However, I also think he is too immature/reckless. I think he got away with many moves because he had nothing to lose and was against drivers who did. His behaviour (one example, multiple moves in braking zone was tolerated because of his age and the excitment he brought to F1). BUT, If the Honda engine delivers he could be fighting for the championship and imho, he will f*c* it up simply because he will expect respect/room which he will not himself give (like he did to Daniel). IMHO, he will be ready in a couple of years time but not in 2019.

Am I wrong? And/or Is this theoretical and the Honda unit not up to the job? IMO, there were a couple of young drivers in 2018 which would have done better in the Red Bull set-up or (are you from Belgium/Holland and not a biased Brit) do you believe Max would have won the 2018 championship, if he had been in a Merc or Ferrari?

regarding Max: I have to say I was one of those, when we first heard that Max was coming to F1, who thought it was crazy to put someone that young with so little experience in an F1 car. I was wrong. Max should have let Ocon go in Brazil, he would have won that race if he had. So Max has made mistakes, but he's made fewer than Seb in the recent period. And he is undeniably very fast. With a little more experience he's going to be hard to beat. I think Seb himself said it best==>

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

regarding Max: I have to say I was one of those, when we first heard that Max was coming to F1, who thought it was crazy to put someone that young with so little experience in an F1 car. I was wrong. Max should have let Ocon go in Brazil, he would have won that race if he had. So Max has made mistakes, but he's made fewer than Seb in the recent period. And he is undeniably very fast. With a little more experience he's going to be hard to beat. I think Seb himself said it best==>

Well hopefully he will continue to make F1 a more exciting sport for many years to come.

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Alpha Males, So my big question for you all is what about Max V.

In 2018, I appreciated watching someone carve through the field and take risks, he clearly also has talent. However, I also think he is too immature/reckless. I think he got away with many moves because he had nothing to lose and was against drivers who did. His behaviour (one example, multiple moves in braking zone was tolerated because of his age and the excitment he brought to F1). BUT, If the Honda engine delivers he could be fighting for the championship and imho, he will f*c* it up simply because he will expect respect/room which he will not himself give (like he did to Daniel). IMHO, he will be ready in a couple of years time but not in 2019.

Am I wrong? And/or Is this theoretical and the Honda unit not up to the job? IMO, there were a couple of young drivers in 2018 which would have done better in the Red Bull set-up or (are you from Belgium/Holland and not a biased Brit) do you believe Max would have won the 2018 championship, if he had been in a Merc or Ferrari?

1- Absolutely ! Of course all depends from the new Honda power source !
2- Spot on !
3- I'm Belgian and Max actually too (Belgian ID) Because Max is born in Belgium !

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by Poiseuille

regarding Max: I have to say I was one of those, when we first heard that Max was coming to F1, who thought it was crazy to put someone that young with so little experience in an F1 car. I was wrong. Max should have let Ocon go in Brazil, he would have won that race if he had. So Max has made mistakes, but he's made fewer than Seb in the recent period. And he is undeniably very fast. With a little more experience he's going to be hard to beat. I think Seb himself said it best==>

Wait and see !

And Max in 2009 ...Check this out !

[MJE60]

Anyone who loves F1 (and I do) will hope the Honda power unit is competitive. It would be fantastic if there is a three or even four way battle for the title. I hope Max has learnt from his mistakes, I am still not sure he is ready yet but I wish him (and Belgium) well for 2019 . I, of course, reserve my right to cheer for Lewis. (and allow our Dutch friends to cheer for Max as well)

[///M Power-Belgium]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Anyone who loves F1 (and I do) will hope the Honda power unit is competitive. It would be fantastic if there is a three or even four way battle for the title. I hope Max has learnt from his mistakes, I am still not sure he is ready yet but I wish him (and Belgium) well for 2019 . I, of course, reserve my right to cheer for Lewis.

Thank you my friend ! And Max is more than ready . Don't forget he was only 17 when he won already his first F1 race ..
Who did this before in the F1 history ?

[Alfisti]

Originally Posted by MJE60

I still do not understand why he left Red Bull, does anyone really know?

It was very., very clear that RBR were going to back Max. he is box office and european so publicity wise is a money machine even if Daniel is far more of a personality.

As an aussie i can admit Max seems that touch faster, that last 10th or two. Daniel figured he'd be second fiddle.

Then Baku happened. This was black and white max's fault, he had been warned about moving in braking zones many times and finally he caused a massive crash ..... with his teammate. RBR three Riccardo under the bus forcing them both to apologise when it was CLEARLY Max's fault. Daniel was not returning to RBR after that, was never gonna happen.

What i don't understand is why Ferrari didn't snap him up, he's a point scoring machine in a reliable car, probably the most mistake free of the top 5 drivers.

[MJE60]

Originally Posted by Alfisti

It was very., very clear that RBR were going to back Max. he is box office and european so publicity wise is a money machine even if Daniel is far more of a personality.

As an aussie i can admit Max seems that touch faster, that last 10th or two. Daniel figured he'd be second fiddle.

Then Baku happened. This was black and white max's fault, he had been warned about moving in braking zones many times and finally he caused a massive crash ..... with his teammate. RBR three Riccardo under the bus forcing them both to apologise when it was CLEARLY Max's fault. Daniel was not returning to RBR after that, was never gonna happen.

What i don't understand is why Ferrari didn't snap him up, he's a point scoring machine in a reliable car, probably the most mistake free of the top 5 drivers.

Thanks, valuable insight. I suspect the reason Daniel and Ferrari were not an item is for the same reason Leclerc was told to pull over in race one of the season. Ferrari still believe SV will deliver for them and hiring Daniel for number 2 would have left him back where he started at Red Bull.

[racerbruce]

Originally Posted by Alfisti
What i don't understand is why Ferrari didn't snap him up, he's a point scoring machine in a reliable car, probably the most mistake free of the top 5 drivers.

Agreed - I initiated this thread regarding #1 and #2 seats....Daniel is of Italian descent and it should have been his next seat.

[MKSixer]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Thanks, valuable insight. I suspect the reason Daniel and Ferrari were not an item is for the same reason Leclerc was told to pull over in race one of the season. Ferrari still believe SV will deliver for them and hiring Daniel for number 2 would have left him back where he started at Red Bull.

RIC has already handed VET his butt at RB in 2014 causing VET to run to, The Scuderia. There was no way VET would allow another rematch.

Originally Posted by racerbruce

Originally Posted by Alfisti
What i don't understand is why Ferrari didn't snap him up, he's a point scoring machine in a reliable car, probably the most mistake free of the top 5 drivers.

Agreed - I initiated this thread regarding #1 and #2 seats....Daniel is of Italian descent and it should have been his next seat.

When is the last time an Italian has driven for them on a non-emergency basis? Alesi?

[Poiseuille]

Originally Posted by MJE60

Anyone who loves F1 (and I do) will hope the Honda power unit is competitive. It would be fantastic if there is a three or even four way battle for the title. I hope Max has learnt from his mistakes, I am still not sure he is ready yet but I wish him (and Belgium) well for 2019 . I, of course, reserve my right to cheer for Lewis. (and allow our Dutch friends to cheer for Max as well)

thank you for providing me with an excuse for posting this pic yet again==>

[Fliplegend]

Daniel left RB because he saw an opportunity to leave. If you look back at their driver program, not a lot of drivers (who do not have a WDC) have had the chance to leave. Once you are in the RB driving program, they own you.