08-03-2017, 01:46 PM | #1 |
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M4 Convertible vs X5 5.0 xDrive
Right, so my wife has a 2017 X5 5.0L xDrive which I've been driving for a while while waiting for my M4 ZCP to arrive.
The M4 arrived and I've been driving it for a week but today my wife asked me to take her car for a car wash. Call me crazy, but I feel the X5 is much snappier than the M4, as in, with the M4, when I floor it, even in Sports or Sports+, there is like 2 second lag until it starts to go really fast but with the X5, be it in comfort or Sports mode, the moment you floor the accelerator you are flying and accelerating really hard. Can this be true or is it the fact that my car is still in the break-in period? That lag is annoying to be honest. One would think that heavy X5 would be much slower, heck it's not even the X5M, just a regular X5 5.0 Anyone who drove both can shed some light on this?
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08-03-2017, 02:19 PM | #2 |
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Hi
That "lag" you feel is traction control limiting you until it feels it is safe. The traction control is very invasive and gives this perception. Try MDM or traction control off and in a straight line do gas from a stop in sport+ and your "lag" will be gone along with some tread on the rears. Enjoy!
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08-03-2017, 02:28 PM | #3 | |
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08-03-2017, 02:48 PM | #4 |
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10k miles on my X5M, 27k miles on my M3.
I have had a completely different experience. DCT? Manual? Do you have both in auto mode? keep in mind the zf 8 speed is a multi clutch torque converter automatic and the dct is a DUAL clutch. You need to drive them in their optimized methods to truly compare them. You should manually drop the M4/X5 in the correct gear prior to WOT to minimize lag in both cars. The sweet spot for the S55 is >4k rpms. Do the same on the X5 then floor it. If you are driving both in auto mode, the zf does a better job at dropping gears than the dct. If you are driving both in manual, the DCT does a better job snapping the gears. Full throttle kickdowns in auto is not a good method of comparing acceleration, completely useless imho. There is no comparison, the S55 is a much better engine to me, the top end of the power comes on with such force on the M3 vs the X5M. The specs also show it, with the M3 walking away after 60 mph from the X5M, there more than a half second difference to 100 mph. I've driven the M2 in anger as well, the S55 is the best FI engine BMW makes, in terms of driving pleasure and pull. Also, if you are flooring the x5 from a standstill, it is AWD, it will connect immediately, the M4 requires modulation of throttle for maximum traction. I recommend you do this for the M4 asap- CODE EURO MDM, Replace rear tires with larger treads, the 19" oem wheels fit the 295 M5 spec tires without a hitch and is a world changer. Last edited by dkhm3; 08-03-2017 at 02:55 PM.. |
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08-03-2017, 02:54 PM | #5 | |
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08-04-2017, 06:09 AM | #6 |
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Just a thought, the turbos on the s55 start to kick in around 3,500 rpm. Put the car in sport plus throttle with traction off in second gear and hold on for dear life (do not recommend doing this with cold tires). The s55's engine is for high speed driving on the autobahn, not stoplight racing. The x5 you have makes almost all of its torque before 2 grand rpm so you never feel like your losing power until the car revs out. Heck even a 328i with a tune is faster than my f80 from 0-40 since the turbos are tuned for low rpm. After 40 you'll pass the 328 as if it isn't moving.
Also have you thought of tuning your car? I'm running a jb4 and the car feels like an animal. With a few gallons of e85 I was able to pull on my friends 991.1 turbo from a 60-160 roll which is incredible. If I had a flash tune my car would be even faster but I am waiting for strictly obd2 flash to come out. Right now all ecu tunes require taking out the ecu which isn't good for warranty work if they do find you tampered with the ecu. A jb4 is not the best tune out there since it is a piggyback, but for price and usability the jb4 can't be beaten. I have the jb4 app and I switch between maps all day long which is probably the most fun. In the winter (New York) I keep the car on map 5 (progressive boost map) which doesn't upset the rear tires as much on WOT. The power doesn't surge right away so I'm not stuck looking at a traction control light until 60 mph lol. Hope this helps! |
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08-04-2017, 06:22 AM | #7 | |
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08-04-2017, 06:25 AM | #8 | |
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08-04-2017, 06:25 AM | #9 |
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To the OP, are you driving in D mode on your DCT?
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08-04-2017, 06:52 AM | #10 |
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well during that brief test I did yes I was in Auto on my DCT and also in Auto on the X5. Tried both Comfort and Sports modes on the M4, that 2-3 second lag before the car starts pulling was there in both modes. Guess I should try it in the manual S Mode
One would think that non-M X5 is a tank but let me tell you, it feels really snappy and agile
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08-04-2017, 07:13 AM | #11 | ||
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08-04-2017, 07:15 AM | #12 | |
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08-04-2017, 07:19 AM | #13 |
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will do. Thanks for the tip
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08-04-2017, 07:07 PM | #14 |
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Having owned an M4, a' 13 X5 50i M sport M power pkg (440 HP), a '12 X5 50i with Dinan tune (500hp), and a '12 X5M (555hp), I can say that all 3 of the X5s would be reliably faster in most street situations than a stock M4 coupe, and more so than a convertible. The M4 would be faster on the top end, but the X5s launch so hard (esp an X5M with launch mode), that from a standing start, it would be well past 80 if not 100 before the M4 caught up. The X5M is shockingly fast and responsive and has no lag.
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08-04-2017, 07:51 PM | #15 | |
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2015 M4 of the left, 2017 X5M on the right
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08-04-2017, 08:03 PM | #16 | |
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And have you ?
Your avatar seems to indicate you don't even own one... I've had my M4 for over 3 years now and have done well over 40 track days with it. So yes, I have driven an F8X more than enough. Quote:
There will be significantly more lag at low RPM, because there is less exhaust mass flow to spool the turbos. But once boost is achieved, the torque is there. Because of the lag, the acceleration rate has an impact. The faster the acceleration rate (with a lower gear), the more the RPM will climb before peak boost is achieved.
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08-04-2017, 08:21 PM | #17 | |
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Believe me, I have taken too many WOT stomps on both to know. If you can catch an X5M on the freeway at 60+ mph, it cannot hide the weight, the awd additional friction, and the lack of top end, there is simply no comparison. In fact, I am actually considering bms stage 1, because it is starting to bug me. Just look at the power to weight ratio, you get a real understanding of this: M3- 3,651 lbs 425 HP= 8.6 lbs per hp X5M- 5,303 lbs 567 HP = 9.35 LBS per HP What you and the OP are experiencing is AWD off the line. This is my 3rd X5, 4.8i, 3.5i, M. The M3 when driven correctly- i.e. in the correct gear prior to WOT, will just pummel the X5M from a rolling start.
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08-04-2017, 09:18 PM | #18 | ||
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08-04-2017, 09:35 PM | #19 | |
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From third on, the M4 definitely has the advantage. But from a standing start in most situations, I think the X5M would be so far ahead that the M4 wouldn't catch up until well into 3rd gear. And even from a low-speed roll. Maybe other people are better at getting the M4 off the line than I was, but the X5 has tons of torque and even with its weight, catapults off the line with ease thanks to the AWD.
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08-05-2017, 12:30 AM | #20 | |
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The focus, for example, feels super fast below 30 MPH but quickly turns into jello and try to race it and it doesn't seem to even start. Net-net, if I'm buying a car to feel racy on the side streets an M4 would be a horrible choice and maybe an X5 is much better. |
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08-05-2017, 01:13 AM | #21 | |
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Other times, it happens on the highway, at much higher speeds. The problem with the x5m is that unless the race started from a stop, the engine has too many pounds to pull, too much tire 325 rears/285 fronts to compensate for, too much additional friction of AWD to overcome. At the end of the day you're talking about a mass that weighs almost 3 tons with you in it. This is like a 300 lbs Usain Bolt getting Olympic Gold in the 100 meter. If the race was down a hill, I guess he could win by rolling.
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08-05-2017, 09:35 AM | #22 |
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my point was, I get lots of rentals (including SUVs) that, driving between lights on a small side street feel super peppy - much faster than my M4. But then full throttle get onto the freeway, or try to pass on the freeway, and they're laughable. The M4 on the other hand, doesn't feel as peppy on a small side street, but she'll scare the shit out of you on the freeway.
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