New Ytest
Sign out
Bimmerpost
Login
BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com
BMW Garage BMW Meets Register Today's Posts  
Go Back   BMW E39 5-Series Forum | 5Post.com > BIMMERPOST Universal Forums > General BMW News and Cars Discussion

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      03-17-2017, 03:32 PM   #23
drexplode
Brigadier General
drexplode's Avatar
1830
Rep
3,091
Posts

 
Drives: G26 i4x
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Walled Lake Michigan

iTrader: (17)

As long as I have the option to turn it on and off then I'm ok with semi/fully autonomous functionality; however, I do not want a transportation vessel to which I have no direct control.
Appreciate 2
      03-17-2017, 03:33 PM   #24
JRobUSC
First Lieutenant
United_States
869
Rep
350
Posts

 
Drives: Mineral Gray 2019 330i xDrive
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: United States

iTrader: (0)

You people are complaining as if the car will ONLY be autonomous, and won't have the ability to be driven by you. You'll be able to drive it when you want, or let it drive you when you don't. Why is that a problem exactly? Especially since every competitor will be offering the same thing. How successful do you think BMW will be if Audi, Lexus, and Benz are offering cars you can drive or drive themselves, and BMW is the only one not offering it? You're basically championing BMW going out of business.

All the car companies are going to have to adapt. BMW isn't Ferrari. They're not even Porsche (who, incidentally, will also have autonomous cars). Is the 2021 M4 GTS going to offer Level 5 autonomous driving? I doubt it. But the core models? Absolutely. It would be asinine not to. It's a good thing the guys running BMW are less short sighted than the keyboard warriors complaining about them on blogs.
Appreciate 3
MFNATIK3516.50
kozzi969.00
      03-17-2017, 03:46 PM   #25
sirdaft1
Brigadier General
sirdaft1's Avatar
2239
Rep
3,352
Posts

 
Drives: F85 X5M
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Chicago West Burbs

iTrader: (9)

Garage List
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy_y View Post
Better yet, imagine a car you drive to a party, and after you are wasted, drives you back home safely and keeps others safe on the road.

Imagine an electrical car that drives you to the airport and returns back home safely and restores its charge. If the home is powered by renewal sources, your environmental footprint would be minimal. Now scale this to 6 billion people.

Imagine a car that avoids all the potholes on its own.

The possibilities are truly amazing ...


For pedestrian drivers who spend more time texting than paying attention to the road, I'm all for using this tech to get them out of the drivers seat.

But I can't help but feel that this is some big power grab that will inevitably lead to banning enthusiasts like us from being able to drive our own cars on the road (they'll claim it's for insurance purposes or some other bogus reason).
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 03:48 PM   #26
Zach335i
Second Lieutenant
Zach335i's Avatar
United_States
56
Rep
221
Posts

 
Drives: 335i
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Myrtle Beach, South Carolina

iTrader: (0)

I want my self driving m5 to be able to race other vehicles off the line at red lights for me so I can truly sit back and enjoy the show
Appreciate 1
Finnegan712.00
      03-17-2017, 03:51 PM   #27
steve090619
Lieutenant
186
Rep
546
Posts

 
Drives: bmw 540xi
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: ny

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Flying Ace View Post
oh I have no doubt in my mind car will be technically capable by 2021. The issue is, society, government and legal might not be ready.
No way is the government going to be ready. We are still arguing about MPG Guidelines.
Appreciate 2
      03-17-2017, 04:00 PM   #28
M2PDX
Lieutenant Colonel
United_States
3391
Rep
1,723
Posts

 
Drives: 2017 M2
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Portland, Oregon

iTrader: (0)

AHA!

I've been so distraught, dismayed, dazed and confused.

Now I understand it!

Many of us (and most of the automotive press too) have wondered and whined and wrung our hands about why BMW seemed to have lost its way on steering and steering feel.

But wait. It now becomes CLEAR! Now we know their Machiavellian plan:

No one will actually need to steer their cars by 2021, so why bother designing cars that have steering systems that give any useful feedback or feel to their drivers. Just eliminate drivers! If no one has their hands on the wheel, we don't need to have responsive and predictable steering in our BMWs!

The Ultimate Computer Driving Machines!

Thrilling.....
__________________
'17 M2 San Marino Blue, 6MT; 2011 335iS, 2007 328i, 19 Ram 1500, '18 Yamaha MT-07, '14 Kawasaki Ninja 1000. SOLD: '16 European Delivery M3 San Marino Blue, 6MT. '13 335iS, 2002 M3 6MT, 1997 M3, 1998 M3, 1996 328is (picked up in Munich at OLD ED Center), '88 Mustang GT 5.0, '84.5 Mustang SVO Turbo, '77 Rabbit,a cool 1992 Taurus SHO, and KTMs.

Last edited by M2PDX; 03-17-2017 at 07:23 PM..
Appreciate 4
      03-17-2017, 04:05 PM   #29
midwest 340xi 6sp
Lieutenant Colonel
midwest 340xi 6sp's Avatar
United_States
366
Rep
1,797
Posts

 
Drives: 2018 340xi
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The Great Midwest

iTrader: (6)

At first I thought this was the dumbest thing ever. I'd find myself getting more and more po'ed about it as I read it in every car rag and automotive/business site.

Then I thought about it a little bit more:

There's a lot of bad drivers out there. Or think about the # of dumb-asses texting and driving or driving stoned/drunk? Or the # of 83 year olds who don't have their faculties anymore? Or 16 year olds who have their licenses but really arent ready to drive yet?

If this technology can alleviate some of those dangers, and still allow me to drive and have fun doing so? I think thats a step in the right direction.

But I do also see a day when the differentiation between brands is going to be more difficult with this technology. And that is what would scare me if I worked in that industry.

Being driven by a chevy or a bmw? its still being driven by something else vs experiencing it yourself.
__________________
Previous Rides: 535xi, M235xi, X3, E92 M3, E70 X5 35d, X6 50i, X6 35i, E60 550i, E46 M3 Cabriolet, E39 540i, E36 328i
Appreciate 1
Finnegan712.00
      03-17-2017, 04:29 PM   #30
Bosozoku
Almost completely sane
Bosozoku's Avatar
United_States
697
Rep
1,080
Posts

 
Drives: '17 M2, '00 S2000
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

I wonder how many people will be killed by Uber self-driving cars by 2021.
Good luck with that, Travis.
__________________
'17 BMW M2 (BSM 6MT Exec CarPlay, TechnicPnP ASD bypass, IND M Perf shift knob + keyhole cover, Pedal Haus pedals + heel plate, 3M CR90 tint, BavSound Ghost woofers, Racing Dynamics strut tower brace, Dinan midpipe, Turner intercooler)
'00 Honda S2000 (Silverstone Metallic, black leather, factory titanium shift knob + front lip + trunk spoiler, front shock tower brace, front subframe x-brace)
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 04:39 PM   #31
Bosozoku
Almost completely sane
Bosozoku's Avatar
United_States
697
Rep
1,080
Posts

 
Drives: '17 M2, '00 S2000
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: SF Bay Area

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest 535i View Post
... If this technology can alleviate some of those dangers, and still allow me to drive and have fun doing so? I think thats a step in the right direction. ...
A few more steps in that direction and manually driving a car will be illegal.
But only if and when self-driving cars are statistically safer than human-driven cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midwest 535i View Post
... Being driven by a chevy or a bmw? its still being driven by something else vs experiencing it yourself.
Exactly.
I doubt many people will buy their own self-driving cars, except for ultra-luxe models.
The masses will probably go with on-demand self-driving car services.
__________________
'17 BMW M2 (BSM 6MT Exec CarPlay, TechnicPnP ASD bypass, IND M Perf shift knob + keyhole cover, Pedal Haus pedals + heel plate, 3M CR90 tint, BavSound Ghost woofers, Racing Dynamics strut tower brace, Dinan midpipe, Turner intercooler)
'00 Honda S2000 (Silverstone Metallic, black leather, factory titanium shift knob + front lip + trunk spoiler, front shock tower brace, front subframe x-brace)
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 04:48 PM   #32
mfstrby
Second Lieutenant
mfstrby's Avatar
Canada
101
Rep
214
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 328i xDrive
Join Date: Oct 2016
Location: Montreal

iTrader: (0)

I will try to avoid this tech as much as I can, and when it is mandatory, probably I will be too old to drive anyways
Appreciate 1
      03-17-2017, 04:50 PM   #33
Dog Face Pony Soldier
2006 TIME Person Of The Year
Dog Face Pony Soldier's Avatar
United_States
9701
Rep
6,445
Posts

 
Drives: M Sport 335i
Join Date: May 2013
Location: North Jersey

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2014 335i  [9.74]
My F30 already is equipped with Level 1 automation (Active Cruise Control). A major reason I'm not in an M3 is because BMW (unlike Porsche) doesn't deem ACC worthy of a car that is designed with intentions of track time. Maybe this will change soon and I can avoid squeezing a Porsche into my future?
__________________
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 05:00 PM   #34
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

 
Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by sirdaft1 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by coolguy_y View Post
Better yet, imagine a car you drive to a party, and after you are wasted, drives you back home safely and keeps others safe on the road.

Imagine an electrical car that drives you to the airport and returns back home safely and restores its charge. If the home is powered by renewal sources, your environmental footprint would be minimal. Now scale this to 6 billion people.

Imagine a car that avoids all the potholes on its own.

The possibilities are truly amazing ...


For pedestrian drivers who spend more time texting than paying attention to the road, I'm all for using this tech to get them out of the drivers seat.

But I can't help but feel that this is some big power grab that will inevitably lead to banning enthusiasts like us from being able to drive our own cars on the road (they'll claim it's for insurance purposes or some other bogus reason).
Bingo. "Think of the children!" If not the law then insurance rates. But do we need insurance companies?

The main point is why would I want brand x or why when it's just a box that drives me? Performance ? Doesn't matter. Looks? Doesn't matter. Handling? Doesn't matter. I really don't care about which scissors I use they just need to cut. BMW? Who cares? That which defines it will be moot. As will any other brand value. So what's the new value prop when I can buy a self driving box cheaper elsewhere?

I see a role for this in driving hell like the San Francisco Bay Area. In less urban/dense areas where one can actually drive there's less need. Some of us enjoy driving, shooting, fishing, skydiving, scuba diving, good whiskey. All things that are "dangerous". A world that's foam padded and totally safe is boring as hell and sounds like being imprisoned in an asylum to me. That's not a world I look forward too.
Appreciate 1
sirdaft12239.00
      03-17-2017, 05:09 PM   #35
steve090619
Lieutenant
186
Rep
546
Posts

 
Drives: bmw 540xi
Join Date: Jan 2017
Location: ny

iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel_bagshot View Post
I will try to avoid this tech as much as I can, and when it is mandatory, probably I will be too old to drive anyways
And that is when you buy a Self Driving Car. You just answered the Million Dollar Question. When you are Too Old to Drive, you will want this technology. That is why BMW is working so hard on it. Will you buy a chevy or bmw, most people stick with the brand they are most comfortable in. You will buy a BMW. $$$$
Appreciate 1
Finnegan712.00
      03-17-2017, 05:14 PM   #36
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

 
Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve090619 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by colonel_bagshot View Post
I will try to avoid this tech as much as I can, and when it is mandatory, probably I will be too old to drive anyways
And that is when you buy a Self Driving Car. You just answered the Million Dollar Question. When you are Too Old to Drive, you will want this technology. That is why BMW is working so hard on it. Will you buy a chevy or bmw, most people stick with the brand they are most comfortable in. You will buy a BMW. $$$$
I disagree. On a fixed income I'd buy the cheapest self driving box. Or, better yet, have Uber serve one up if and only when I need it. Why own what I'd use infrequently at that point in my life? Why pay to store a depreciating asset?
Appreciate 3
      03-17-2017, 05:36 PM   #37
raysspl
Brigadier General
raysspl's Avatar
992
Rep
3,000
Posts

 
Drives: walking, bicycle, & bus
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: SoCal

iTrader: (0)

As a software & product engineer, I am kinda bum'd like most folks here about raw driving days being numbered but the upside still outweighs the downside. You generally would have less accidents with autonomous driving - less drunk driving, less senior citizen accidents, etc.

Autonomous driving will still be an option so no need to fret.
__________________
re
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 06:19 PM   #38
Germanauto
Major General
Germanauto's Avatar
United_States
9838
Rep
6,142
Posts

 
Drives: Alfa Romeo Giulia, Rosso
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: LA

iTrader: (0)

As a mainstream luxury manufacturer this is something BMW has to do to retain clients and stay in business. Fact is that the overwhelming majority of BMW customers don't give a shyt about driving dynamics, something that's only gotten worse since the rise of global markets like China and India (where luxury cars are status symbols purely). This blows big time for BMW loyalists like us but BMW has made it clear since the release of the E89 and every subsequent redesign since that they don't care for us.

Porsche said they have no plans to make an autonomous vehicle which is delightful. But I wonder how they will fare given how a lot of Cayenne and Panamera customers don't care about driving dynamics either.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 06:53 PM   #39
Agni
First Lieutenant
Agni's Avatar
United_States
119
Rep
372
Posts

 
Drives: F36 435i M Gran Coupe
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Chicago

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 335xi  [0.00]
2006 325i  [0.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Germanauto View Post
As a mainstream luxury manufacturer this is something BMW has to do to retain clients and stay in business. Fact is that the overwhelming majority of BMW customers don't give a shyt about driving dynamics, something that's only gotten worse since the rise of global markets like China and India (where luxury cars are status symbols purely). This blows big time for BMW loyalists like us but BMW has made it clear since the release of the E89 and every subsequent redesign since that they don't care for us.

Porsche said they have no plans to make an autonomous vehicle which is delightful. But I wonder how they will fare given how a lot of Cayenne and Panamera customers don't care about driving dynamics either.
Well said. But hopefully BMW won't completely forget about us and give us cars too..like the M2.

They can make all the self driving status symbal long wheel base cars for china as they want. As long as they also give us some nice cars.
Appreciate 1
Germanauto9837.50
      03-17-2017, 07:52 PM   #40
MalibuBimmer
Founder, Knights of the Roundel website
MalibuBimmer's Avatar
United_States
966
Rep
1,723
Posts

 
Drives: 2015 M4 and 2018 AMG GT
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: The Santa Monica Mountains, CA

iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2018 Mercedes AMG GT  [0.00]
2018 Audi Q3  [0.00]
2015 BMW M4  [10.00]
I'm 72. I made my father stop driving two years ago (when he was 97). I want to be able to get around on my own in my BMW when I'm his age. So autonomous driving will be ok.

What's interesting to note is how autonomy has arrived. Not so long ago we thought it would come through centralized control and cars communicating with each other. Two incredibly complicated things to accomplish, especially when not all cars are autonomous. Now the car is being made "self aware" in a 360 degrees sort of way, with the computer brain replacing the fallible nut behind the wheel.

One day it will all be autonomous and the pleasure will come from going to a race track and driving your 150 year old ICE dinosaur.

While I still want to drive on my own, I will embrace autonomy when it means I can still be independent.
__________________
Previously: 2014 i8; 2013 650i convertible; 2013 650i Gran Coupe; 2013 X1; 2010 550i GT; 2010 535 GT; 2010 Z4 3.5; 2008 535ixt; 2007 M6 convertible; 2006 650i convertible; 1996 Z3; 1980 633CSi; 1978 630CS; 1972 3.0CS; 1971 Bavaria. (1971; 1979-2005 & 2017 - ? -- the Mercedes years.)
Appreciate 2
JDubz70.00
      03-17-2017, 08:50 PM   #41
vinny84
Captain
vinny84's Avatar
United_States
308
Rep
746
Posts

 
Drives: 2005 BMW X5
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: PA

iTrader: (1)

Mtominous

When you don't feel like driving around the track yourself
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 09:32 PM   #42
hatepotholez
Major
294
Rep
1,025
Posts

 
Drives: M3
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: NYC, NY

iTrader: (1)

Wouldn't mind having a car similar to the the movie I,Robot. Drive my car when I want to and let it take over when I want it to. The actual robots are another story.
Appreciate 0
      03-17-2017, 09:54 PM   #43
Finnegan
Dog Listener
Finnegan's Avatar
United_States
712
Rep
7,850
Posts

 
Drives: Z4M/. Z3M, E36/46 M3
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Teaching the dog to slalom

iTrader: (22)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mo@BMWofFairfax View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finnegan View Post
I have yet to understand the slightest modicum of why I'd ever want this. Or, assuming I did, why I'd decide to buy a BMW vs. a Cuisinart or a Maytag when it's nothing more than merely an appliance.
Autonomous tech is the future. The systems are able to help avoid accidents and take the stress off of the driver.
Fast food was the future too. Easier. Faster. Cheaper. That doesn't mean it's "better".

Is it possible this tech can improve things? Sure. But I reject the idea that it's automatically better because it's new. Or that we should jump on the sales/marketing bandwagon because it's new. New isn't the only destination. Leonardo DaVinci's works aren't new. Nor are Picasso's. Nor is the Jaguar E-Type. But that doesn't mean they are obsolete, irrelevant, or "worse" than new things.

New can be better. New can be worse. The assumption new is always better is consumerism, marketing, and sales 101. Not a promise or guarantee of "better".
Appreciate 1
      03-17-2017, 09:55 PM   #44
IB M
Brigadier General
2841
Rep
4,301
Posts

 
Drives: 2013 M3 6MT
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: North Carolina

iTrader: (1)

Garage List
2017 BMW M3  [8.50]
2013 BMW M3  [10.00]
Initially when these become common on the road, and before self driving is illegal, there will be a period of time where it will be so easy to cut off and blow by every autonomous vehicle programmed to go the speed limit and leave a safe gap. I can not wait to exploit this opportunity to the fullest.

The Autonomous vehicles need to stay the F out of the left lane.
Appreciate 2
Finnegan712.00
lawgone66.00
Post Reply

Bookmarks


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:45 PM.




5post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST