College Football Argument - Please Settle

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

No, I never stated they were beating HS level teams. I said the the Tenn v. Bama game was like a HS level game.

Then again I don't see anyone complaining over nobody teams such as BC, UCONN, USF ranking as high as they are. Do any of those teams really hold a candle to the high caliber teams such as Florida, LSU, OSU or USC? I don't think so. Everyone just rides the "I hate OSU" bandwagon because they are consistently good.

And yes OSU got embarrassed last year. Was that because they were a bad team? Prolly not. Florida just came in completely prepared and executed a perfect football game, while OSU was flat and lost one of their top play makers in the first 30 seconds of the game. And you can't tell me with a straight face that losing Ginn didn't hurt. That completely affected OSU's game plan before the game even got going. Instead of Florida being spread all over the field defending 3 big play guys, they only had to concentrate on 2 which made a HUGE difference. But in the end who cares, that was last year this is now. Living in the past doesn't take you anywhere, ask Florida.

I side with Cane in saying that thinking OSU's team this year is worse then last. That is ignorant. It also shows that you may not actually watch a lot of football and only read headlines and ride the wagon.

I could go on about how Florida hasn't played great football this year but I won't because it's not worth it since God's great sun shines on the SEC's asses

1) You're right -- I don't watch any OSU games. Not because I dislike OSU, I just don't care about them.
2) FL does not deserve the SEC Champ game, far from National light. Take Tebow away and there is no offence. Honestly, I didn't think they deserved the National Champ game last year. But I did not think USC deserved either.
3) I am not sure about BC -- last week they proved they ARE a good team. But they have some tough games ahead of them. I predict they will NOT remain unbeaten.
4) USF, UCONN and so on should not be a BCS game contender at all, but it is good for their teams and programs what they did this year.

And finally, just like USC, I would not say that OSU is consistantly good -- I would say they are consistantly overrated. USC especially -- they have proven over and over that they have tough time finishing it up. But, that is the beauty of college football -- the Stanford deal, or appalachian State or... I don't believe MICH was that bad team, and I do believe they would walk all over App. State if they played them again...

With all this above, I do believe the playoffs would be the most reasonable way to go. That would give a chance to some teams (like SEC) to compete for the title. Otherwise the LSU, SC, UGA, TENN, BAMA, FL, Auburn, KT have slim chance to play in January when all of them are fairly good. But then, teams like OSU, USC have easy schedule for the most of the season and if they "survive" one or two tough teams, they are automatically in...

Not fair...

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by dr325i

1) You're right -- I don't watch any OSU games. Not because I dislike OSU, I just don't care about them.
2) FL does not deserve the SEC Champ game, far from National light. Take Tebow away and there is no offence. Honestly, I didn't think they deserved the National Champ game last year. But I did not think USC deserved either.
3) I am not sure about BC -- last week they proved they ARE a good team. But they have some tough games ahead of them. I predict they will NOT remain unbeaten.
4) USF, UCONN and so on should not be a BCS game contender at all, but it is good for their teams and programs what they did this year.

And finally, just like USC, I would not say that OSU is consistantly good -- I would say they are consistantly overrated. USC especially -- they have proven over and over that they have tough time finishing it up. But, that is the beauty of college football -- the Stanford deal, or appalachian State or... I don't believe MICH was that bad team, and I do believe they would walk all over App. State if they played them again...

With all this above, I do believe the playoffs would be the most reasonable way to go. That would give a chance to some teams (like SEC) to compete for the title. Otherwise the LSU, SC, UGA, TENN, BAMA, FL, Auburn, KT have slim chance to play in January when all of them are fairly good. But then, teams like OSU, USC have easy schedule for the most of the season and if they "survive" one or two tough teams, they are automatically in...

Not fair...

I finally agree with everything except 2 things, which I bolded...

Maybe teams like USC, OSU, Texas, Florida and some others are overrated but, they are still consistently good. No college team will ever play an intense NFL like schedule, that is the beauty of college football. SO it must be looked at in different lights. Sure they don't play more then 4 really good teams on a hard season yet it's how these teams prevail throughout the season, not just for beating certain teams. This is why point spreads are taken into consideration. If OSU, USC, Florida or whoever were squeaking by week to week playing no one's then I would have an issue, yet these teams repeatedly go out and beat any opponent by 20+ points, which is no easy feat.

By saying these teams just have to "survive" you're looking at NCAA football the wrong way. Again it's not the NFL. The NCAA is about kicking ass on a weekly basis no matter who you play. If they were just out there to "survive", we wouldn't see the same amount of scoring.

In the end not only the top teams are trying to win, you mentioned App. State, they went into that game with the intention of winning, their odds of winning were very low but the prevailed. Not because Michigan is a bad team, but they went into the game assuming the win and it bit them in the ass. That is also the great part of college football, anyone can win on any weekend, so to say their just out their to "survive" is an understatement.

Although I still agree with a playoff system. But in no way could the entire bowl system be turned into a bracket playoff system. Which still wouldn't give some of the teams you mentioned a true shot at the championship. I think a big start would to possibly get rid of the pre-season rankings. This way after week 1 they can then rank everyone using some of the pre-season ranking criteria yet also consider their play in week 1. So say OSU would have typically been ranked #1 due to the pre-season rankings, but they scrub that. So OSU goes into week 1 squeaks by a App. State 20-17. Then you take into account they lost key players to the draft, their replacements are questionable, and obviously their play in week 1 was not up to their typical standards, so they get a ranking of 12 or whatever. I do think this could level the playing field some, but the NCAA won't do this either....

It will be a uphill battle for years to come

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

I finally agree with everything except 2 things, which I bolded...

Maybe teams like USC, OSU, Texas, Florida and some others are overrated but, they are still consistently good. No college team will ever play an intense NFL like schedule, that is the beauty of college football. SO it must be looked at in different lights. Sure they don't play more then 4 really good teams on a hard season yet it's how these teams prevail throughout the season, not just for beating certain teams. This is why point spreads are taken into consideration. If OSU, USC, Florida or whoever were squeaking by week to week playing no one's then I would have an issue, yet these teams repeatedly go out and beat any opponent by 20+ points, which is no easy feat.

By saying these teams just have to "survive" you're looking at NCAA football the wrong way. Again it's not the NFL. The NCAA is about kicking ass on a weekly basis no matter who you play. If they were just out there to "survive", we wouldn't see the same amount of scoring.

In the end not only the top teams are trying to win, you mentioned App. State, they went into that game with the intention of winning, their odds of winning were very low but the prevailed. Not because Michigan is a bad team, but they went into the game assuming the win and it bit them in the ass. That is also the great part of college football, anyone can win on any weekend, so to say their just out their to "survive" is an understatement.

Although I still agree with a playoff system. But in no way could the entire bowl system be turned into a bracket playoff system. Which still wouldn't give some of the teams you mentioned a true shot at the championship. I think a big start would to possibly get rid of the pre-season rankings. This way after week 1 they can then rank everyone using some of the pre-season ranking criteria yet also consider their play in week 1. So say OSU would have typically been ranked #1 due to the pre-season rankings, but they scrub that. So OSU goes into week 1 squeaks by a App. State 20-17. Then you take into account they lost key players to the draft, their replacements are questionable, and obviously their play in week 1 was not up to their typical standards, so they get a ranking of 12 or whatever. I do think this could level the playing field some, but the NCAA won't do this either....

It will be a uphill battle for years to come

A simple question for you:
Compare FL and OSU schedules. Tell me what you think. Or actually, compare South Carolina Schedule to the OSU's and tell me honestly if they can compare. Except for the first week and another one in the middle or the end -- yes, the SEC teams do have NFL-like schedules.

Anyway, as long as the final two are decided by the votes, I don't see it being realistic...

[darkcloud]

Florida 07 Schedule

09/01 W Kentucky W 49-3
09/08 Troy W 59-31
09/15 #22 Tennessee W 59-20
09/22 at Ole Miss W 30-24
09/29 Auburn L 20-17
10/06 at #1 LSU L 28-24
10/20 at #7 Kentucky W 45-37
10/27 #18 Georgia L 42-30
11/03 Vanderbilt 35-10
11/10 at S Carolina 7:45 PM
11/17 FAU 12:00 PM
11/24 Florida St TBD

S. Carolina 07 Schedule
09/01 La Lafayette W 28-14
09/08 at #11 Georgia W 16-12
09/15 SC St W 38-3
09/22 at #2 LSU L 28-16
09/29 Miss St W 38-21
10/04 #8 Kentucky W 38-23
10/13 at UNC W 21-15
10/20 Vanderbilt L 17-6
10/27 at Tennessee L 27-24
11/03 at Arkansas 8:00 PM
11/10 #20 Florida 7:45 PM
11/24 #25 Clemson TBD

OSU 07 Schedule
9/01 YSU W 38-6
09/08 Akron W 20-2
09/15 at Washington W 33-14
09/22 N'western W 58-7
09/29 at Minnesota W 30-7
10/06 at #23 Purdue W 23-7
10/13 Kent St W 48-3
10/20 Mich St W 24-17
10/27 at #25 Penn State W 37-17
11/03 #21 Wisconsin 31-17
11/10 Illinois 3:30 PM
11/17 at #12 Michigan 12:00 PM

So each team is going to play around 4 ranked teams. OSU's ranked teams are all in the 20's, but how is that their fault. Each ranked team was at some point within the top 10 or close to it and lost. Same with Florida or SC's schedule. The teams they've played were ranked fairly high, but due to upset's or losses. This isn't exactly comparing apples to apples here.

Their all playing ranked teams and the same amount of them. Teams have been consistently floating from ranked to unranked backed to ranked all season long. It's teams with staying power such as OSU, LSU, WVU that come out on top. They play tough football each week no matter who the opponent is. To take that away from a team and claim they play a "soft" schedule is rough.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

Florida 07 Schedule

09/01 W Kentucky W 49-3
09/08 Troy W 59-31
09/15 #22 Tennessee W 59-20
09/22 at Ole Miss W 30-24
09/29 Auburn L 20-17
10/06 at #1 LSU L 28-24
10/20 at #7 Kentucky W 45-37
10/27 #18 Georgia L 42-30
11/03 Vanderbilt 35-10
11/10 at S Carolina 7:45 PM
11/17 FAU 12:00 PM
11/24 Florida St TBD

S. Carolina 07 Schedule
09/01 La Lafayette W 28-14
09/08 at #11 Georgia W 16-12
09/15 SC St W 38-3
09/22 at #2 LSU L 28-16
09/29 Miss St W 38-21
10/04 #8 Kentucky W 38-23
10/13 at UNC W 21-15
10/20 Vanderbilt L 17-6
10/27 at Tennessee L 27-24
11/03 at Arkansas 8:00 PM
11/10 #20 Florida 7:45 PM
11/24 #25 Clemson TBD

OSU 07 Schedule
9/01 YSU W 38-6
09/08 Akron W 20-2
09/15 at Washington W 33-14
09/22 N'western W 58-7
09/29 at Minnesota W 30-7
10/06 at #23 Purdue W 23-7
10/13 Kent St W 48-3
10/20 Mich St W 24-17
10/27 at #25 Penn State W 37-17
11/03 #21 Wisconsin 31-17
11/10 Illinois 3:30 PM
11/17 at #12 Michigan 12:00 PM

So each team is going to play around 4 ranked teams. OSU's ranked teams are all in the 20's, but how is that their fault. Each ranked team was at some point within the top 10 or close to it and lost. Same with Florida or SC's schedule. The teams they've played were ranked fairly high, but due to upset's or losses. This isn't exactly comparing apples to apples here.

Their all playing ranked teams and the same amount of them. Teams have been consistently floating from ranked to unranked backed to ranked all season long. It's teams with staying power such as OSU, LSU, WVU that come out on top. They play tough football each week no matter who the opponent is. To take that away from a team and claim they play a "soft" schedule is rough.

First, good win today, even stronger reason for them to stay #1.

Now, you're telling me that TN, South Car, FSU and Auburn (Florida schedule unranked teams) are the same caliber as...lets say -- WIS, MSU, ILL and WASH??? And that PUR, WIS, PSU are as strong as LSU, KT and UGA???

I didn't think so...

Anyway, I'd love to see OSU - LSU in Januaru. That should settle it all...for now

[djmatty]

Well, looks like BC is out of it. And I don't see OSU losing since they play mostly high school teams. I'm hoping they get demolished by either Oregon or the winner of the Matchup of Morgantown.

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by djmatty

Well, looks like BC is out of it. And I don't see OSU losing since they play mostly high school teams. I'm hoping they get demolished by either Oregon or the winner of the Matchup of Morgantown.

I don't even want to start with you again

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by dr325i

First, good win today, even stronger reason for them to stay #1.

Now, you're telling me that TN, South Car, FSU and Auburn (Florida schedule unranked teams) are the same caliber as...lets say -- WIS, MSU, ILL and WASH??? And that PUR, WIS, PSU are as strong as LSU, KT and UGA???

I didn't think so...

Anyway, I'd love to see OSU - LSU in Januaru. That should settle it all...for now

So far everything is going as I said...BC loss, and so on. Another proof that unranked team from the FL schedule can run circles around OSU scheduled unranked teams...

Not clear yet if LSU will remain without another loss till the end of the season...

[djmatty]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

I don't even want to start with you again

Again? Who the hell are you?

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by djmatty

Again? Who the hell are you?

From the baseball thread. You think you know all just because the damn Sox won

[DFW_M]

Hey, two of you -- be nice to each other.

[djmatty]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

From the baseball thread. You think you know all just because the damn Sox won

No, I think I know all just because they won for the exact reasons I stated, and the exact way I stated, thank you very much.

[djmatty]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Hey, two of you -- be nice to each other.

I am being nice. You don't want to see me when I'm not being nice.

[txusa03]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

Their all playing ranked teams and the same amount of them. Teams have been consistently floating from ranked to unranked backed to ranked all season long. It's teams with staying power such as OSU, LSU, WVU that come out on top. They play tough football each week no matter who the opponent is. To take that away from a team and claim they play a "soft" schedule is rough.

A soft or hard schedule is not based on ranking (if I understand it correctly). A soft or hard schedule is based on the win/loss of the team you played. As we all witnessed, ranking means nothing during the seaon so no purpose of arguing over who is 1,2, or 3 after 9 or 10 weeks. Let talk one week after new year!

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by txusa03

A soft or hard schedule is not based on ranking (if I understand it correctly). A soft or hard schedule is based on the win/loss of the team you played. As we all witnessed, ranking means nothing during the seaon so no purpose of arguing over who is 1,2, or 3 after 9 or 10 weeks. Let talk one week after new year!

Thank god someones got some sense

[derek0480]

High school football.....look at OSU's schedule

Youngstown State???
Akron???
Kent State????


Come on - those shouldn't even be considered wins.

Those teams are on par with junior colleges.

Not saying that OSU is bad...just saying that if they played schools with decent programs all year they most likely wouldn't be unbeaten.

[darkcloud]

Oh so you're telling me teams like Tulane, Mid. Tenn, and Miss St. are any better for LSU???

How bout Florida playing Troy(which was a close game), Ole Miss, or FAU???

Every D-IA team in college football plays some cream puff teams. OSU just chooses to keep the teams in state so that it helps the Ohio schools out, plus a lot of those kids were considered by OSU but just didn't make it so it also gives the kids a chance at playing in the Shoe which has prolly been a dream of their for year.

You SEC guys need to get off your fucking high horse already. Your shit still stinks. Damn you guys are stubborn.

[UncleWede]

I was so hoping LSU would lose, but they showed some real poise AS A TEAM and came through.

Funny how dependent USC is on their QB because with Booty on the field, I guess he won't play with the imposters. Sanchez is still a good QB, but he didn't seem to command the team like he will need to in the future.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

Oh so you're telling me teams like Tulane, Mid. Tenn, and Miss St. are any better for LSU???

How bout Florida playing Troy(which was a close game), Ole Miss, or FAU???

Every D-IA team in college football plays some cream puff teams. OSU just chooses to keep the teams in state so that it helps the Ohio schools out, plus a lot of those kids were considered by OSU but just didn't make it so it also gives the kids a chance at playing in the Shoe which has prolly been a dream of their for year.

You SEC guys need to get off your fucking high horse already. Your shit still stinks. Damn you guys are stubborn.

Of course, everyone is playing some JR colleges during the season, HOWEVER:
Troy, Ole Miss and FAU are far better than Kent St, Akron and Youngstown...

LSU, KT and UGA are far better than PSU, MICH and WIS ,and so on...

That is why the experts also agree that the SEC is indeed the toughest conference. DOes that mean that a team from SEC should always play the National Champ game -- NO. But I would rather see KU or Oregon on top than OSU...especially after the last year overrated embarassement...

The ranking system is definitely flawed, USF was a perfect example -- and fi they won it all out with those joke teams, they would have ended up in the Nat Champ game...

[darkcloud]

Originally Posted by dr325i

Of course, everyone is playing some JR colleges during the season, HOWEVER:
Troy, Ole Miss and FAU are far better than Kent St, Akron and Youngstown...

LSU, KT and UGA are far better than PSU, MICH and WIS ,and so on...

That is why the experts also agree that the SEC is indeed the toughest conference. DOes that mean that a team from SEC should always play the National Champ game -- NO. But I would rather see KU or Oregon on top than OSU...especially after the last year overrated embarassement...

The ranking system is definitely flawed, USF was a perfect example -- and fi they won it all out with those joke teams, they would have ended up in the Nat Champ game...

It's all debatable. Is the SEC the toughest conference, maybe. That won't be figured out until teams are forced to play cross conference games yearly, with a rotation sorta like the NFL. Until then everyone is just guessing who may be the tougher conference. I don't agree with how you believe OSU was overrated last year. Sure they were embarrassed but they deserved to be in the Championship game, they just happened to play shitty, it happens to the best of them.

I do agree that the ranking system is flawed. But that's been beaten to death since the BCS ranking system was conceived. Nobody can figure out a way to rank 100+ teams without someone bitching. Look at Kansas this year, if they win out don't they deserve a shot at the championship? But it won't happen because LSU will go on a BCS championship game campaign like Urban Mayer did last year whining their way in. So unless your so intelligent that you can figure a better way everyone is just going to have to deal with it.

But jesus already, quit the garbage that OSU is such a bad team. They aren't. If they were they wouldn't be so widely respected. They work hard and win a lot of football games and have the stats to back it up. The same can't be said for a lot of other schools.

[DFW_M]

Originally Posted by darkcloud

But it won't happen because LSU will go on a BCS championship game campaign like Urban Mayer did last year whining their way in. .

1) Don't hate the Gators now...they whined but easily showed last year that OSU should have never been in that game in the first place. Again, that proved the strength of schedule should be an important parameter...

2) I do not think OSU is a bad team at all. They actually may be the best out there this year. If they win it all, there is no argument for them not to be in the final game as one of few unbeaten teams left. Then, that game will either -- prove me (and SEC fans) very wrong, or prove it again that loosing in SEC by a field goal is actually worth more points than beating Younstown...

[txusa03]