[335ih]

Hi All

Not sure what the rules are on here about this subject so apologies for the ambiguity!

I was hoping to speak to any of you fine people on here with experience of the cameras on this stretch of motorway..

In summary, my query is; if the speed limit signs on the gantry are not illuminated / off and the camera flashes when travelling over the national speed limit, what can one expect?

I am aware traveling at speeds over the NSL carry repercussions, however, I am keen to speak to anyone that has experience of this using this stretch of road?

Thanks

[M40WST]

Only Thing I can say is your a good example, wait 14-days and find out.

My impression of them was that the Highways Agency intention was to only use them when the Traffic Management Signs are on e.g. 60 mph and below if you get caught when they are on then fair cop!

However the HADECS 2 speed cameras which are used between between Juction 11 and 13 are type approved to be used as standard speed cameras so the Local Police Constabulary can use them if they wish to do so. Between Juction 11 and the M25 I'm unsure if they are HADECS or HADECS 2 as they we're put in earlier. If they are HADECS then they are only type approved for when the speed signs are on.

I hope this helps a bit

[Nick the Greek]

I have a laser / radar detector in my car.
The fact that the sign is not illuminated, doesn't have a bearing on the camera being switched on.
Even if the camera flashes (it needs to flash twice), does not mean there is film in it.
If you are unlucky enough to be photographed, then the usual ACPO guidelines are an allowance of 10% + 2 mph, before you get a ticket.That is, you would need to be travelling in excess of a true 77 mph before any action is taken.

[SunnydaysATX]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

I have a laser / radar detector in my car.
The fact that the sign is not illuminated, doesn't have a bearing on the camera being switched on.
Even if the camera flashes (it needs to flash twice), does not mean there is film in it.
If you are unlucky enough to be photographed, then the usual ACPO guidelines are an allowance of 10% + 2 mph, before you get a ticket.That is, you would need to be travelling in excess of a true 77 mph before any action is taken.

which one do you have?

[M40WST]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

I have a laser / radar detector in my car.
The fact that the sign is not illuminated, doesn't have a bearing on the camera being switched on.
Even if the camera flashes (it needs to flash twice), does not mean there is film in it.
If you are unlucky enough to be photographed, then the usual ACPO guidelines are an allowance of 10% + 2 mph, before you get a ticket.That is, you would need to be travelling in excess of a true 77 mph before any action is taken.

Hi Nick,

The HADECS / HADECS2 Cameras on the M1 are all Digital Speed Cameras so therefore the luck of whether the camera has film in or not no longer exists.

The same can be said for the older types of cameras too, although the shell can look like an old camera they can replace the internals with digital cameras and the images are just uploaded using either hard line, GPRS or even 3G.

It's very much luck of the draw, I've always been lead to believe by old friend who used to be a police officer that most cameras for NSL were normally set to be at least 80 mph.

Mike

[335ih]

Thanks for the responses. Yes would agree it's a waiting game now for anyone in this position.. and looks like luck of the draw as to whether the camera has processed it!

Do the points / fines / potential bans / speed awareness courses levy from how much over the limit you were going? I.e. the national speed limit and then 77+ / 80 -90 / 91 - 99 / 100+ ??

[Hprice1099]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

I have a laser / radar detector in my car.
The fact that the sign is not illuminated, doesn't have a bearing on the camera being switched on.
Even if the camera flashes (it needs to flash twice), does not mean there is film in it.
If you are unlucky enough to be photographed, then the usual ACPO guidelines are an allowance of 10% + 2 mph, before you get a ticket.That is, you would need to be travelling in excess of a true 77 mph before any action is taken.

This is technically incorrect, but depends on the force. 77mph in a 70mph zone is subject to 3 points and £100 fine. There is no such rule as 10% over the speed limit etc, for example if the force has a current zero tolerance approach then anything over the speed limit is subject to the above.

[Hprice1099]

Originally Posted by 335ih

Thanks for the reposnses. Yes would agree it's a waiting game now.. and looks like luck of the draw as to whether the camera has processed it!

Do the points / fines / potential bans / speed awareness courses levy from how much over the limit you were going? I.e. the national speed limit and then 77+ / 80 -90 / 91 - 99 / 100+ ??

Of course yes, do you have any current points and have you done the speed awareness course before?

[335ih]

I've personally never been on an awareness course. I have three points from Jan this year but how does this compare to someone caught speeding in the same scenario with a clean license?

[DaveA]

Originally Posted by M40WST

Only Thing I can say is your a good example, wait 14-days and find out.

My impression of them was that the Highways Agency intention was to only use them when the Traffic Management Signs are on e.g. 60 mph and below if you get caught when they are on then fair cop!

However the HADECS 2 speed cameras which are used between between Juction 11 and 13 are type approved to be used as standard speed cameras so the Local Police Constabulary can use them if they wish to do so. Between Juction 11 and the M25 I'm unsure if they are HADECS or HADECS 2 as they we're put in earlier. If they are HADECS then they are only type approved for when the speed signs are on.

I hope this helps a bit

My impression was, like yours, that the cameras were intended for use only when the variable speed limits were being used... Around Birmingham, for instance, on the M42, I've never seen the older ones there flash when there is no variable limit posted.. In fact, the locals seem to ignore them when the signs are off..

BUT... The ones that have gone in on the M62 around Leeds in the last year or so are flashing folk even when the signs are not lit (presumably they are exceeding the 70mph national limit..).. and they don't seem to be predictable.. sometimes they are on.. sometimes not..

I suspect that the ones that have gone in around Leeds are newer ones and are being used as standard speed cameras..

[DaveA]

For those interested, here's the CPS guidance...

http://www.cps.gov.uk/legal/p_to_r/r...nalty_notices/

.. and here's the ACPO guidelines..

https://www.google.co.uk/url?q=http:...mOErWhiP5aDMiQ

[Hprice1099]

Originally Posted by 335ih

I've personally never been on an awareness course. I have three points from Jan this year but how does this compare to someone caught speeding in the same scenario with a clean license?

Yes it does, it's individual to every person really. If that's the case you may be offered the course, force pendant on there policy. The wait begins

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Hprice1099

This is technically incorrect, but depends on the force. 77mph in a 70mph zone is subject to 3 points and £100 fine. There is no such rule as 10% over the speed limit etc, for example if the force has a current zero tolerance approach then anything over the speed limit is subject to the above.

Surely there is a tolerance due to speedo error? That why these percentage tolerances exist?

[Steven1077]

Its normally 10% + 2mph that the cameras are set at, I went past one in a 40 limit just before getting my car at 47mph thinking I was in a 50mph but luckily my Speedo must have been set high, I seem to recall reading cars are normally set at about 3mph above what you’re actually doing so I must have been doing 44 as I didn't get a nasty letter.
TBH if I see a speed camera I stick to the limit, never worth the risk of a rude letter in the post.

[Hprice1099]

Originally Posted by dopper99

Surely there is a tolerance due to speedo error? That why these percentage tolerances exist?

Not with the fixed cameras, there 100% accurate (within the law). The hand held cameras need to be fixed on the target for 3 seconds to get a legal reading.
Don't get me wrong a lot of cameras are set higher due to the fact that most people speed. That's when discretion is used

[Nick the Greek]

Yes the ACPO recommends a tolerance to allow for speedo error. Of course the guidance doesn't have to be adhered to and of course 71 on the motorway is illegal.
Personally I find driving at 70 dangerous and never set the cruise control for less than 90.

[RobUK]

Originally Posted by 335ih

In summary, my query is; if the speed limit signs on the gantry are not illuminated / off and the camera flashes when travelling over the national speed limit, what can one expect?

I am aware traveling at speeds over the NSL carry repercussions, however, I am keen to speak to anyone that has experience of this using this stretch of road?

Thanks

By how much might one have been traveling over the NSL?

Using 3 different GPS devices, I have found that that an indicated 73-74mph in the car equals 70mph according to the GPS device. (Not sure if that degree of error is 'normal'). Also I'm talking about HUD indicated speed here, rather than an interpretation of where the needle is pointing.

[sailplan]

I travel this stretch of the M1 very frequently and have been flashed many times when the signs are both on and off but never received a ticket. I may just have been very lucky though. I keep my speed under 90mph when the signs are off and within 10-15mph of the limit when they are on. They are often left on for hours after rush hour has finished and the traffic is light which is irritating. I also wonder how many accidents have been caused by people approaching a gantry at 90+ and then braking heavily to 70 just before they go under. Not convinced they are at all effective as the M1 is still at a standstill most days during peak periods.

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Nick the Greek

Yes the ACPO recommends a tolerance to allow for speedo error. Of course the guidance doesn't have to be adhered to and of course 71 on the motorway is illegal.
Personally I find driving at 70 dangerous and never set the cruise control for less than 90.

There is a lot of truth in that.
I find some people are outside their comfort limits driving over 65 and you see them getting hesitant as they approach 70mph.
Also some of the sheds should be limited to 50 with their 2nd hand T rated tyres.

[Aktivemac2]

Has anyone here ever got a speeding ticket from average speed cameras on a motorway or similar?

I also stick exactly to the limit in those 50mph zones, but there are always a couple of cars that seem to shoot through at 80mph and always makes me think "do they know something I dont?" or are they just idiots who don't understand what "average speed" means...

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Aktivemac2

Has anyone here ever got a speeding ticket from average speed cameras on a motorway or similar?

I also stick exactly to the limit in those 50mph zones, but there are always a couple of cars that seem to shoot through at 80mph and always makes me think "do they know something I dont?" or are they just idiots who don't understand what "average speed" means...

If you speed here in average camera zones you are fined.

http://www.shropshirestar.com/news/2...e-coming-down/

Approximately 20 people per day, 3700 or so in 7 months.

The majority doing 60, so basically ignore these signs at you peril.

[dopper99]

Originally Posted by Aktivemac2

Has anyone here ever got a speeding ticket from average speed cameras on a motorway or similar?

I also stick exactly to the limit in those 50mph zones, but there are always a couple of cars that seem to shoot through at 80mph and always makes me think "do they know something I dont?" or are they just idiots who don't understand what "average speed" means...

I think if you get caught by a mobile camera or even a gatso in an unfamiliar town then that is unlucky… but those people that get caught by average speed cameras are either thick, blind or stupid. I’m sure they can see them, but try to push their luck about 10mph+ over the limit … why? Many a time I’ve had people pass me travelling over the limit on a average speed check area – but when it ends I catch up with them and overtake them. But they have risked their licence. Dont understand it.