[jusdorange]

for MPG I get that they run it on the EU cycle

but for 0-60 times how is that measured??

[teaston]

They time how long it takes for the car to get from 0 to 60!

[Proftinkerpot]

Surely the clue is in the title?

[sweels]

Although both answers are right, I think(??) that the OP is wondering if it is measured 'officially', and therefore in some way independently in the way the mpg/CO2 test is.

My understanding is that (unlike co2 figures) because no purchase tax/ company car benefit in kind tax/ yearly road fund licence etc is based on 0-60/0-62 mph then there is no requirement for this to be officially measured. Therefore it can be done by the individual manufacturers.

Although there is some sort of standard under which kerb weights are supposed to be quoted (a certain %age of fuel capacity and all operating fluids and a notional 75kg driver in the car, if I recall), it is not clear whether performance figures have to be measured under such strictly controlled (and therefore comparable) conditions.

Clearly if a manufacturer was consistently quoting acceleration times that even expert road testers could get nowhere near, then it would soon become apparent in the motoring press, so I suspect this is enough to keep them honest. It is generally suggested that BMW are fairly conservative with their figures (and people on here seem to be matching, or even slightly beating the bmw numbers based on the few vbox related posts on here).

Depending on the car, it can be easier or a lot harder to achieve the 'ideal' acceleration figures depending on how you drive, so this must give a little more leeway. And in no way would I want to get into a debate about the real world relevance of the 0-60/0-62 time as the benchmark, but whether we like it or not, it has become the accepted norm, and goes some way to indicating a car's relative performance. Many will suggest that 30-70 mph is more relevant, as we mostly need the car's best acceleration whilst already on the move, and it negates the variations of cars' abilities to get off the line, (whilst also wanting to avoid the frequent 4wd vs rwd (or even fwd) debates.

As an aside, 0-60 has been the benchmark certainly since I first got into cars in the early 80s and I believe well before then (although on the 60s quite a few cars took so long to get to 60, they were only quoted to 50mph) but as cars generally get faster, the 0-60 times get ever closer, even proportionally, as tyre grip becomes an ever more limiting factor rather than (mostly) power to weight ratios.

As a rule of thumb, in a front wheel drive car, a pwr to weight ratio of 100bhp/tonne will give a 0-60 time close to 9.5 to 10 seconds whereas you'd get approximately 5 to 10 per cent improvement on that for rear wheel drive and a slight further benefit over that for 4wd.

[jusdorange]

Originally Posted by sweels

Although both answers are right, I think(??) that the OP is wondering if it is measured 'officially', and therefore in some way independently in the way the mpg/CO2 test is..

yes, sorry I was on my phone hence kept it short, but you deduced correctly that I was asking if there was a 'standard' they kept to, as is the case with published MPG figures , 75kg driven, laden weight etc

was the run done in comfort or sport mode?

when did they shift up? (short shifting etc)

that sort of thing.

I suppose to rephrase my original question; is there a set of guidelines/method they (BMWs and/or car manufacturers) abide by when producing their published 0-60

and would marketing play a trick? upsell the M cars, downsell the 'pov spec' 316s in order to convince them to upgrade to a bigger engine ?

[Pablo68]

I'm pretty certain manufacturers will undersell some models performance figured in order to encourage buyers towards others. However lets not forget that they aren't allowed in this country at least to use performance as a sales tool directly.

In the end 0-60 is for pub based willy waving

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

In the end 0-60 is for pub based willy waving

...he says with an oversized 335i signature panel...

Perfect

[sunscreemer]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

...he says with an oversized 335i signature panel...

Perfect

[sunscreemer]

Originally Posted by jusdorange

yes, sorry I was on my phone hence kept it short, but you deduced correctly that I was asking if there was a 'standard' they kept to, as is the case with published MPG figures , 75kg driven, laden weight etc

was the run done in comfort or sport mode?

when did they shift up? (short shifting etc)

that sort of thing.

I suppose to rephrase my original question; is there a set of guidelines/method they (BMWs and/or car manufacturers) abide by when producing their published 0-60

and would marketing play a trick? upsell the M cars, downsell the 'pov spec' 316s in order to convince them to upgrade to a bigger engine ?

I would imagine they use the best the car can do, i.e. sport mode for car and gearbox if 8AT. In my view the cars characteristics are dialled down for comfort / eco modes rather than dialled up for sport mode.

[Tengocity]

I would imagine each manufacturer has a really dull SOP to describe how this testing is done, covering such things as:

How many times it's done and how its averaged
How many different cars should be used to ensure consistency
The allowable conditions - surface, weather, wind etc
The method of measurement - vbox etc
The standard load the car must have

I'm pretty sure they also know from computer simulation what the figures are likely to be way in advance. I would expect marketing to have an input much earlier in the process when agreeing target figures for consumption, performance etc with the engineers as they will know how they want each car to be positioned relative to competition, other models the manufacturer produces, and the various sensitive benchmarks which drive the market dynamics - like CO2, economy figures, performance figures etc.

I would then imagine the engineers go away and work back as to what the optimum gear ratios need to be to get the desired balance of performance v economy etc.

All my own speculation, but I really don't imagine they pitch up at a runway and just see how it goes!

[brommy]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

In the end 0-60 is for pub based willy waving

Originally Posted by MarkG335

...he says with an oversized 335i signature panel...

Perfect

Classic!

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by Tengocity

I would imagine each manufacturer has a really dull SOP to describe how this testing is done, covering such things as:

How many times it's done and how its averaged
How many different cars should be used to ensure consistency
The allowable conditions - surface, weather, wind etc
The method of measurement - vbox etc
The standard load the car must have

I'm pretty sure they also know from computer simulation what the figures are likely to be way in advance. I would expect marketing to have an input much earlier in the process when agreeing target figures for consumption, performance etc with the engineers as they will know how they want each car to be positioned relative to competition, other models the manufacturer produces, and the various sensitive benchmarks which drive the market dynamics - like CO2, economy figures, performance figures etc.

I would then imagine the engineers go away and work back as to what the optimum gear ratios need to be to get the desired balance of performance v economy etc.

All my own speculation, but I really don't imagine they pitch up at a runway and just see how it goes!

One of the main bits is getting a decent sample size, there are build freaks that will bang out more or even less than set power.

If anyone watched top gear on the Bonneville Salt Flats, you can see how times can change etc (ok Tarmac is slightly more consistent), however OAT, tyre pressure, engine temperature, weight of driver fuel etc etc.

Also how many runs? 3 and take middle? What if first 3 actually slower / faster.

It's nice to know, however as long as can still beat chavs etc, don't really care tbh.

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by brommy

Classic!

Any reason you stalk me?

And not sure I can find a mention of 0-60 times in my sig

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

...he says with an oversized 335i signature panel...

Perfect

Well I do hope you are offended.

[MarkG_M5Comp]

Originally Posted by Pablo68

Well I do hope you are offended.

How could I possible be offended...? I'm almost half a second further down the road and therefore can't hear you...

[JustChris]

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by ChesterX5

[NISFAN]

Only One Way To Settle This.......

[....,,,,..,,..]

Originally Posted by NISFAN

Only One Way To Settle This.......

Lol

[JustChris]

Hehe good old Harry Hill, found his niche on YBF

[Pablo68]

Originally Posted by MarkG335

How could I possible be offended...? I'm almost half a second further down the road and therefore can't hear you...

You'll be lucky.

More like cant hear me over the clank clank rattle rattle from under your bonnet....or does it - wait for it - "sound just like a V8"? ...oh dear, you diesel drivers are so funny.

[dopper99]

Now now chaps, poor yourself another drink and chill......

There is no such thing as a bad BMW engine - whatever fuel drives it.