[thomsomc]

Hi all - Just wanted to post a sticky situation I find myself in and see if anyone else thinks it's a little fishy.

I bought an 07 335xi with about 66k on it, and early August I experienced battery problems. On the way to the dealership to get a new battery put in, I experienced the common overheating symptoms of water pump failure, though at the time I had no idea what was going on. I eventually got the red overheat warning and had to get a flatbed tow the rest of the way to the dealership, where my CPO covered a new thermostat and I paid out of pocket for the battery. Not knowing that it could be anything else, I went with the dealers suggested repairs and drove home. Problem solved apparently, and I went on my way.

Now, about 2 months down the road at 75k, I experience the same symptoms as before, with the yellow warning, then soon after red warning, high pitched "fan" sounds likely meaning the rest of the system is taxed trying to keep the engine cool. I again get stranded, and after a tow to the dealership I'm told that this time the water pump is out. Currently I'm stewing over the 1.2k I was quoted and wondering if this situation isn't completely coincidence.

I'm afraid that the key difference between the first and second visits is that my CPO coverage ended on August 15th, right after my first visit. I'm not 100% sure, but I would think that if they went as far as finding thermostat issues, they would have either at least checked the water pump, or potentially replaced it out of already being that far into the repair, as my understanding is that the thermostat and water pump is a bit of a combo-deal.

Am I wrong to be concerned that they might send me on my way after the first visit, knowing that I'd be back for a 1.2k water pump repair bill? Should the dealer have been able to tell that the water pump was on its last leg during the first inspection? I've read that codes are often thrown when there are problems with the water pump well in advance of any drive impacting symptoms, would they have been able to ascertain that the water pump was dying?

Furthermore, do I have any leg to stand on in asking the dealership to cover some/all of the cost of this repair given that I was already there so recently for a related incident and they should have already found it? They have my service records with the car in the shop so I can't double check, but is it possible that they would have replaced the water pump already when the thermostat was replaced?

Any advice or input here is greatly appreciated!

[catcher22]

That's messed up! The stealership didn't tell you it's common to replace the Water pump and thermostat at the same time?

You have to take off the thermostat to get to the water pump (or the other way around, I don't remember but they're in the same place). They're owning you on Labor costs doing it twice, or at least by hoping your water pump goes after your CPO, which it did. Find an honest shop.

[tennis_pr0]

The pump was obviously on it's way out and it looks like the new stat just temporarily solved the problem. I would say you have a very big foot to stand on. They might try to bullshit you thinking you know nothing about cars, but if you go in there and make your point, but in a nice way, I think they will definitely work with you.

[mike-y]

They should have asked you if you wanted to replace the pump at the same time as the T-stat, but it would not have been covered, as it was not having any issues. If there weren't any codes showing the waterpump was going bad, then they have no obligation to replace it under warranty.


The pumps seem to fail randomly - mine went at 119k miles, but yours failed a lot earlier. it's all the luck of the draw. What you can do is ask if they can do a goodwill repair or at least cover some of the labor cost because they should have asked you to do the pump also. but the bottom line is that you are out of warranty, so technically, they aren't obligated to fix it. It never hurts to ask though.

In the mean time, start pricing local independent shops. I got my best price from a guy that has one of those garages attached to a gas station, who just happened to specialize in bmw and mercedes.

[tennis_pr0]

I think they should have asked you also. Given that you are at higher mileage and pump is vulnerable to go soon, they should have given you the option to save on labor since they were already putting the stat in. I would see if they would be willing to charge you half on the labor, that would be fair for you and definitely something they would consider in my opinion.

[thomsomc]

Update - I talked to the service consultant again today and he detailed the error codes that they believe lend some credibility to not having caught the water pump earlier. Apparently I was throwing 2EF4 back in July (around 71.2k miles) which is a code specific to the thermostat being stuck or overheating. Now, 2-3 months and 3k miles later, the code is 28E2, which is specific to the coolant pump that needs replacement.

After speaking to the service manager as well, I was able to negotiate a reduction in cost to the neighborhood of 1.1k for parts and labor. At this point, I don't think that I'll be successful in pursuing additional discounts or a significantly lower price at a local shop (low enough that I could justify getting it towed to a indy and still save significant money), so I went ahead and pulled the trigger.

After cruising the forums and reading everyone's experience with this, I've made a few quick observations:
1) This seems like it should be right up there with the wastegate issues. Though less severe and less chronic, it seems that a large number of 2007-2008 335's will see a pump failure between 30-70k miles, and many of these are managing to land outside of CPO territory and costing owners thousands of dollars for each occurance. This is a consistent enough issue that a recall wouldn't be out of the question, especially given the fact that most report significantly longer life out of the replacement pump installed after the original part fails.
2) Though I might have a reasonable argument that they should have either recommended I replace the pump at my own cost at the original service in July or perhaps read the code as related to the pump and pushed a replacement out of an abundance of caution, I don't feel that the dealership intended to send me packing with a defective pump in the hopes that I'd be back later for a full cost repair. I orginally feared that to be the case, but given that the codes they gave me were accurate and it is completely possible for the thermostat to fail independently of the pump, I don't think there was malice in not taking action on the water pump at the first date of service.

Any thoughts?

[peepayy_91]

Even with the discount , they're still getting 2x the cost of labor for a job that couldve been done in one go if they had asked you. The dealer should know that it is very common to replace both of them in one go. I go to an indy shop and and he has always stuck his neck out for me including the water pump. He told me the water pump failed, thermostat is still good. I would recommend doing both in one go, what would you like to do? It just seems a common courtesy to offer that option. It's not like they wouldve had to pay for the waterpump..

[Meeni]

The pump is very expensive, so CPO will not change a pump that doesn't throw a code. However, it is very uncommon for the Tstat to fail before the pump. Your pump was probably already the reason for the initial failure, but didn't throw the appropriate codes (yet). Quite an unfortunate scenario for you.

This is not a 335 specific issue, it is across the board for all BMW engine using that electric pump.

[edirtaynine]

Originally Posted by mike-y

They should have asked you if you wanted to replace the pump at the same time as the T-stat, but it would not have been covered, as it was not having any issues. If there weren't any codes showing the waterpump was going bad, then they have no obligation to replace it under warranty.


The pumps seem to fail randomly - mine went at 119k miles, but yours failed a lot earlier. it's all the luck of the draw. What you can do is ask if they can do a goodwill repair or at least cover some of the labor cost because they should have asked you to do the pump also. but the bottom line is that you are out of warranty, so technically, they aren't obligated to fix it. It never hurts to ask though.

In the mean time, start pricing local independent shops. I got my best price from a guy that has one of those garages attached to a gas station, who just happened to specialize in bmw and mercedes.

what this guy said. exactly.