[Bumps]

Called DMS Automotive today to enquire about whether they had a remap for my E92 320i (to see what they could get out of the engine).

They told me that the new 170bhp engine has an encrypted map and that they can't crack it!! Not sure whether that means 'can't be bothered' (don't think so with DMS), but I think it would be worthwhile, as those of us at the bottom of the engine pile often have the most to gain from remaps.

They also said the same was true of the facelifted 120d (177bhp), but that the bigger turbo diesels are currently unaffected.

IMHO all new BMW engines will probably be difficult to crack, if possible at all, as they come onto the market. Why? Because I reckon with the diversification of their model ranges BMW have spotted that people may pay them less and buy a model one level down from what they actually want and then get a (much cheaper) remap to make their car effectively the same as the next model up in the BMW range. For example, buy a 120d M Sport 3dr for £23395 and get a remap for £700 ish, saving just over £1000 over the price of the 123d M Sport at £25200, all for similar results.

Will the re-mappers crack the codes or decide they can't be bothered?

Food for thought.....

[dxb335d]

i think they will try as there is a market.. i wouldnt bother tuning a N/A 2 litre lump as you will get little gains, try breathing first!!! (zorst and filter)

nwo the turbo'd 320d is a different matter, with a turbo good gains can be made upping boost etc along with timing etc

Carlos

[dxb335d]

you could always go for throttle bodies on the 2 litre petrol lump but will be very juicy and i would imagine would cost over 2-3k on a BMW

a mates mate once fitted them to a 1.6 zetec at a cost of 1500 quid years ago

good gains tho

[330cdsport]

It may end up that only tuning boxes and procede's (or the equivalent aftermarket boxes) will be the only option to 'fool' the ECU's into higher gains.

[Serjames]

I suspect BMW might actually have something up their sleeves to harvest this market themselves.

Will be a conservative tune though and would in no way be in a position to challenge their M3.

SJ

[Cafe.Racer]

I dunno, we hear this stuff all the time from various manufacturer's and tuning companies.

One thing seems clear to me though, if the tuning companies can't crack the encryption, they are out of business, eventually. There's an incentive for them.

I would imagine that there's a big "yet" in the back of their minds, although it does make me wonder who writes DMS's maps - is it them, or somebody else. I'll quickly add that I don't know much about them, or tuning BMWs, so if I've commited heresy, I'm willing to be put right.

I suspect that you just might have to wait longer, and truth be told, they will go where the gains are, because that's what sells remaps. I doubt "the market" isn't that interested in remaps for NA petrols - you have to be a serious petrol head and enjoy driving to see the benefit in +10 bhp and improved throttle response for the money, especially when you look at the gains you can get from remapping a turbo motor.

[Serjames]

I think you're spot on C.R

Isn't it true that they eventually crack these devices, by hook or by crook, sometimes involving Wacky and wierd techniques. (storing in freezer for 15 minutes etc.)

I also heard from a little bird that indeed there is some sort of "evil mastermind" that actually edits and e-mails the edited maps, specific to each car back to the tuners during the tune, i.e. they have an insider do the software bit.

Now is that someone inside BMW, or the software engineers who consult on the OEM maps ?

SJ

[Hotcoupe]

Interesting read which has started me wondering.
I received my registration number today with an estimated delivery date of 11th Oct (335D M sport coupe).
It is a 08 model which I believe means that the engine varies in some way to year 07 models, I'm wondering if BMW have in fact encrypted the map?

Anyone know any details in the changes to 08 model cars, in particular to 335D's?

Guess I need to speak to the guys at DMS.

[roofer]

Schnitzer have brought out a piggyback module i hear, The only one i know who have cracked the old ECU is Hartge?

Alpina load their map on the end of the production line.

BMW are introducing their own performance packages in America, i wonder if they will 'remap'?

[Bumps]

Originally Posted by Serjames

I suspect BMW might actually have something up their sleeves to harvest this market themselves.

Will be a conservative tune though and would in no way be in a position to challenge their M3.

SJ

Me too. BMW UK have already parted company with AC Schnitzer so as - 'allegedly' - to pave the way for them marketing their own 'aftermarket' stuff to fill the void, as is now the case in the US of A.

I'm never going to bother to try and remap a NA 2 litre anyway, but was just interested in what they could get, and I was just a little surprised by the answer.

However, as pointed out, if there's a way, the remappers will eventually find it. Will be interesting to see how it pans out.

[julesman]

Why bother trying to crack the remaps when you can just use an interceptor like XEDE or Procede These have the benefits of working side by side with the ecu so you can remove it (and add it back) relatively simply and at will..... just what u need when u take the car in for service. Personally, I wish BMW would offer something for the 335 engine (whether a remap or an interceptor), I'm not sure we can expect it soon though.... here's hoping.

[ECBMW]

Ok........whats remapping (sounds like something to do with the engine but i want to be 100% about what it is)? and can anything be done on a 1.8D SE 57 plate with this remapping or is it no good?

Cheers

[Cafe.Racer]

Originally Posted by Hotcoupe

It is a 08 model which I believe means that the engine varies in some way to year 07 models, I'm wondering if BMW have in fact encrypted the map?

Different encryption seems to come in with different model family of ECU, rather than just MY changes. They might well have changed the encryption (they must have been encrypted before, it's not a new thing) when they changed something else that's significant no the engine.

Originally Posted by Serjames

I think you're spot on C.R

Isn't it true that they eventually crack these devices, by hook or by crook, sometimes involving Wacky and wierd techniques. (storing in freezer for 15 minutes etc.)

...and "contributions" to research and development budgets Don't forget that it's not just manufacturers that have access to ECU code, a lot of calibration work is done freelance as good, and I mean really good, calibration engineers can charge a flippin' fortune, the ECUs are generally 3rd party (Bosch, Siemens etc). Lots of points of entry. I'm sure the calibration engineers cross-over and take work from whereever they can. I bet they have to sign their lives away with NDA's though.

I'm just wondering who actually makes the diagnostics kit, they too must know a bit about the encryption...

In software terms, I bet the hackers of this world boats that every kind of encryption can be broken, it's just whether anyone can be bothered.

Oh, and BTW, I'm not being specific to BMW or DMS, I don't know anything specific and I'm not suggesting anything specifically relating to them, the comments are general to the whole market place.

Originally Posted by Serjames

I also heard from a little bird that indeed there is some sort of "evil mastermind" that actually edits and e-mails the edited maps, specific to each car back to the tuners during the tune, i.e. they have an insider do the software bit.

Now is that someone inside BMW, or the software engineers who consult on the OEM maps ?

SJ

Bald head, white cat, leather swivel chair? I think I might know him

It adds fuel to the fire, do these tuning companies actually write their own maps, or do they buy them in from someone else? Again, I'm not "up" on BMW tuning, but other companies I know write the maps in house and then others buy them in from elsewhere. The ones that write their own are generally the more expensive (more people, bigger overheads), and usually first to market with code for new cars.

[Cafe.Racer]

Originally Posted by julesman

Why bother trying to crack the remaps when you can just use an interceptor like XEDE or Procede These have the benefits of working side by side with the ecu so you can remove it (and add it back) relatively simply and at will..... just what u need when u take the car in for service. Personally, I wish BMW would offer something for the 335 engine (whether a remap or an interceptor), I'm not sure we can expect it soon though.... here's hoping.

Someone else said the same, earlier. Makes sense to me, although I wonder for petrol engines if it could ever be as "refined" as a remap. ESP and traction control, cold engine starts and tough emissions tests lambda sensors, boost pressure. Plus a gizillion other parameters.

I think diesel tuning is all about chucking more fuel in without making it too smokey, isn't it? Even so, a remap is an easier thing to perform whilst the customer's stood there, plug in laptop, upload map, road test. A piggyback or intercept or tuning box is more complicated and can involve cutting/routing wires, mounting boxes etc.

I did ask vishnu if he was going to do anythign for the 320D though

[Cafe.Racer]

Originally Posted by ECBMW

Ok........whats remapping (sounds like something to do with the engine but i want to be 100% about what it is)? and can anything be done on a 1.8D SE 57 plate with this remapping or is it no good?

Cheers

Essentially, uploading new code into the ECU to change the program and parameters to improve the performance of the car. The modern day equivalent of chipping.

[dxb335d]

Originally Posted by Cafe.Racer

Someone else said the same, earlier. Makes sense to me, although I wonder for petrol engines if it could ever be as "refined" as a remap. ESP and traction control, cold engine starts and tough emissions tests lambda sensors, boost pressure. Plus a gizillion other parameters.

I think diesel tuning is all about chucking more fuel in without making it too smokey, isn't it? Even so, a remap is an easier thing to perform whilst the customer's stood there, plug in laptop, upload map, road test. A piggyback or intercept or tuning box is more complicated and can involve cutting/routing wires, mounting boxes etc.

I did ask vishnu if he was going to do anythign for the 320D though

you can chuck in as much fuel as you want, you will just end up with bore wash.. need to match the AFR and then good gains will be found

Carlos

[Serjames]

Originally Posted by roofer

The only one i know who have cracked the old ECU is Hartge?

Now this is interesting because they WERE offering a re-map.

... you try and order one now. No longer supported.

I.e. did they ever ACTUALLY crack it, or were they buying time using a piggy back like the excede, procede. I floated this over with our stateside chums and as usual got pretty much ignored - lol

It's either a marketing job, before engineering.

OR

BMW have insisted they DELIST and stick to other aftermarket components.

Alpina on the other hand clearly have a special relationship and yes I believe they send their map to BMW who load it for them.

SJ

[E92Fan]

Originally Posted by Serjames

Now this is interesting because they WERE offering a re-map.

... you try and order one now. No longer supported.

I.e. did they ever ACTUALLY crack it, or were they buying time using a piggy back like the excede, procede. I floated this over with our stateside chums and as usual got pretty much ignored - lol

It's either a marketing job, before engineering.

OR

BMW have insisted they DELIST and stick to other aftermarket components.

Alpina on the other hand clearly have a special relationship and yes I believe they send their map to BMW who load it for them.

SJ

Correct on all counts - Hartge did have a map, because they had unoficially obtained the code/passkey from BMW. BMW then threatened to take Hartge to court, so the remap product was removed from sale. Big shame..

Alpina get BMW do load on their maps for them...

[Hotcoupe]

Schnitzer have brought out a piggyback module i hear, The only one i know who have cracked the old ECU is Hartge?

Alpina load their map on the end of the production line.

BMW are introducing their own performance packages in America, i wonder if they will 'remap'?

Roofer's comment above^

[Cafe.Racer]

Originally Posted by dxb335d

you can chuck in as much fuel as you want, you will just end up with bore wash.. need to match the AFR and then good gains will be found

Carlos

Ermmmm, well, yeah - Of course if you pour a bucketfull of diesel in each cylinder... However, as I understand it diesels aren't usually air-restricted like petrols are, so in principle adding more fuel works a treat, because they can pull enough air to burn it all. Possibly to do with them not revving as much as petrols and higher compression, I don't know.

Essentially, tuning a petrol is a) turn the boost up until the tuner or the customer grimaces, then turn it down a bit. This gets more air in. b) make sure there's enough fuel going in by looking at AFR and Exhaust temps (running rich keeps things cool). c) Make sure timing is as far advanced as to get a complete burn, but without knock.

Now, I know enough to know that I don't know shit, if you know what I mean, I'm positive it's a lot more complicated than that..

I'll have to read up, but if a diesel's not air-starved like a petrol and has no timing (apart from injector pulse initiation and width), you're only left with b). Resistor based tuning boxes give surprising results, it's just the smoke that most people can't live with, and that's because they drastically overfuel...

[Cafe.Racer]

Was the hartage product a remap, or an add-on box, though? From memory, at least for my car, I though it was a box?


Edit: Oh, hang on - I'm thinking Schnitzer...

[ShereKhan]

Hmm I have a simple solution.

Ask on here who has a Alpina car with new ECU.

And then use the EPC DVD to find out the part number for the ECU fitted.

Order the CPU and ask local BMW garage to fit. Only thing would be that some sensors may have been upgraded by Alpina to work with their ECU.

The EPC DVD would tell you that though