[Snaggletooth]

So I bought some aftermarket turbos from one of the big turbo vendors for our platform. There was some white smoke coming from the exhaust, and I figured it must have been some of the red dow corning they packed the turbos in for shipment. I figured i'd put a few heat cycles and short drives on the turbos to burn off the grease, and the car started smoking even worse. It ran perfectly, but smoked like something outta spy hunter. I take the car back to the shop and they tell me it's blown turbo seals. I replaced the PCV and upgraded it, but it still smokes. The smoke is pretty intense, so I contacted the vendor and he said send 'em back for either a full refund or replacement. I have a few questions for you guys:

Firstly, under Song-Beverly §1792, if the part is defective, they have to cover replacement labor. How can I go about having them do this without having to go to a lawyer?

Secondly, I suggested finding an outside source to determine fault. I have not received a response. The manufacturer wants to get the turbos back to determine fault, but there's a conflict of interest here. I have a feeling this might turn into a battle between my shop and the turbo mfg. What do you guys think is the fastest way to get a pair of upgraded turbos on my car and get it running?

The car is in the shop, and was completely healthy before. The shop has installed turbos on euro cars before and the mechanic that worked on my car is very familiar with N54's. After the turbo install, the car kinda just went to shit, with the smoke plumes and all that. Accidents happen, and I don't wanna place blame but the same shop that replaced the turbos has also pulled the engine from my car, rebuilt frames, swapped clutches, and done a host of other powertrain related things to cars i've had. I honestly have some serious doubts as to whether my shop would be at fault.

I wanna resolve this without being an asshole to the vendor or the shop and I wanna be fair. At the same time, this wasn't my screwup so I don't wanna pay out of pocket for the second round of install.

My initial suggestion was i'd flatbed the car to the mfg's shop (my expense), have the manufacturer install working turbos at their expense, and pay some extra change for an upgrade in the process (extra business for them), while leaving the old turbos to them for inspection, that way i'd get a replacement part and that would satisfy the requirements for reimbursement of labor.

What do you guys think? I really don't want something for nothing, I just want my car to be the way it should have been from the get go.

[williamf]

You are in a tough situation and this is when the reputability of a manufacture comes into play. The worlds best warranty means nothing if they are just going to try to figure a way out of honoring it.

The easier question you asked is regarding upgrading the turbos. I do not think any manufacture will allow you to do this. It is a bad precedent to set. Unscrupulous customers will intentionally blow their turbos in order to "pay the difference" for the upgrade. The only exception to this that I have seen is when a product is either out of stock or no longer in the product line. Sometimes the manufacture will allow you to upgrade.

[fazman]

You gotta pay to play some times. I really can't advise you on this and I feel your pain. I've seen many a thread about RB Turbo's having issues and other people who just love them!

Honestly, I think what will go down is this... RB will more then likely not take blame for the part but will offer a free replacement set. Install is going to be what ever it is, because even the local shop guy has to get paid from someone.

Personally, I would try to find out if others recently are having the same issue with the turbo batch that went out with yours (so a turbo build time frame would be helpful in that). Also you are probably going to have to see if your mechanic will take pitty on you and see if he would be willing to do this re-install @ cost/reduced rate for you.

Personally I would rather go the Vargas route because they cover the full soup to nuts experience of the upgrade. If something F's up... then they did it. End of story. Full stop! :P
http://performance.vargasturbo.com/

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by williamf

You are in a tough situation and this is when the reputability of a manufacture comes into play. The worlds best warranty means nothing if they are just going to try to figure a way out of honoring it.

The easier question you asked is regarding upgrading the turbos. I do not think any manufacture will allow you to do this. It is a bad precedent to set. Unscrupulous customers will intentionally blow their turbos in order to "pay the difference" for the upgrade. The only exception to this that I have seen is when a product is either out of stock or no longer in the product line. Sometimes the manufacture will allow you to upgrade.

I hear ya for sure. I'm not naming names because I genuinely believe this was a mistake and I don't wana dump on the MFG and cause reputation issues. I believe in "good faith" solutions in most instances, especially in ones where I plan on building a lasting relationship with the MFG.

If it was an issue to pay the difference in value between stages on my turbos, I don't particularly care since it'll probably be a 30 or so hp difference, but since the car is already needing turbos I don't see why they would mine me paying the price difference.

Long story short, I would not have bought one round of turbos with the intention of blowing them to pay the difference between those and the next stage. The difference in price is not particularly great (under 600 or so bucks), and the lead times would keep my car off the street for a few weeks. Cheating wouldn't make economic sense when you factor in shipping, labor, wait time, hassle, etc etc etc. The only reason I threw out the upgrade option is because the car is gonna be opened up again anyways, might as well upgrade it. But if it's a big hassle or my honesty comes into question, I really don't care, thats a few bills left in my pocket and a more sane power level. Besides, that's why I suggested a neutral third party determines the cause of failure if that is a concern.

I really do believe this was an honest mistake, but I need to resolve it. I rely on my car and can't afford to have it sitting in a shop for weeks.

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by fazman

You gotta pay to play some times. I really can't advise you on this and I feel your pain. I've seen many a thread about RB Turbo's having issues and other people who just love them!

Honestly, I think what will go down is this... RB will more then likely not take blame for the part but will offer a free replacement set. Install is going to be what ever it is, because even the local shop guy has to get paid from someone.

Personally, I would try to find out if others recently are having the same issue with the turbo batch that went out with yours (so a turbo build time frame would be helpful in that). Also you are probably going to have to see if your mechanic will take pitty on you and see if he would be willing to do this re-install @ cost/reduced rate for you.

Personally I would rather go the Vargas route because they cover the full soup to nuts experience of the upgrade. If something F's up... then they did it. End of story. Full stop! :P
http://performance.vargasturbo.com/

I never said whether it was RB or vargas, but I wouldn't suggest one is better than the other right now... Plus, I am not seeing the 'soup to nuts' from anyone at the moment, be it shop or manufacturer.

Also, mine seem to be a weird freak accident. If the shop is to blame, I'd have no problem running down and screaming at my shop with the labor bill from the MFG in hand, but I feel like i've been ignored when I suggested a neutral third party inspect them to determine fault.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

I never said whether it was RB or vargas, but I wouldn't suggest one is better than the other right now... Plus, I am not seeing the 'soup to nuts' from anyone at the moment, be it shop or manufacturer.

Also, mine seem to be a weird freak accident. If the shop is to blame, I'd have no problem running down and screaming at my shop with the labor bill from the MFG in hand, but I feel like i've been ignored when I suggested a neutral third party inspect them to determine fault.

Makes sense... i hear ya. Problem is there really isn't a AAA service guy who can do hard core mod inspections. Only other reputable shops (usually if they are reputable... they don't want to get in the middle of that as well).

I would approach it first as:
1) figure out what the issue is/was
2) figure out what the person at fault will do for you
3) once a suggestion is tossed out, then see if an upgrade option is available on either side (try to see if they will have pity on you).

No lawyers and no talk of lawyers... just be civil and most shops will work with you. Always ask, "So how can we fix this?" let them offer a solution (they will probably be more generous then you will).

Also your right... I made a lot of assumptions and I shouldn't have of the MFG, I just figured from past threads i remember reading about similar issues years ago.

[williamf]

Originally Posted by fazman

Makes sense... i hear ya. Problem is there really isn't a AAA service guy who can do hard core mod inspections. Only other reputable shops (usually if they are reputable... they don't want to get in the middle of that as well).

I would approach it first as:
1) figure out what the issue is/was
2) figure out what the person at fault will do for you
3) once a suggestion is tossed out, then see if an upgrade option is available on either side (try to see if they will have pity on you).

No lawyers and no talk of lawyers... just be civil and most shops will work with you. Always ask, "So how can we fix this?" let them offer a solution (they will probably be more generous then you will).

Also your right... I made a lot of assumptions and I shouldn't have of the MFG, I just figured from past threads i remember reading about similar issues years ago.

That is good advice. Most of the time cool heads prevail. Reputable businesses will work with reasonable customers.

Never introduce the "L" word unless you are ready to go the distance because it will probably take going the distance once the "L" word is used.

[Snaggletooth]

Believe me, I work at a law firm and even I think that dragging lawyers into the mix is a bunk idea. I personally am grateful people are trying to further the platform and wanna reward people for making a great product but that also entails me having a running car. I can't afford to drop coin whenever a part that's supposed to work gets messed up due to something out of my control haha. Lawyers are really only there for if nobody can be civil and cooperate. I don't believe in bullying people with lawyers. Those guys give us in the business a bad name.
My real concern is how nobody is acknowledging the cost of labor here.

[fazman]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Believe me, I work at a law firm and even I think that dragging lawyers into the mix is a bunk idea. I personally am grateful people are trying to further the platform and wanna reward people for making a great product but that also entails me having a running car. I can't afford to drop coin whenever a part that's supposed to work gets messed up due to something out of my control haha. Lawyers are really only there for if nobody can be civil and cooperate. I don't believe in bullying people with lawyers. Those guys give us in the business a bad name.
My real concern is how nobody is acknowledging the cost of labor here.

It's a slippery slope my friend, you went from OEM parts to non standard parts. They can claim (well you didn't install new oil lines and your old ones were contaminated as per the install warning). They can also say... well your stock turbos died... probably for the same reason these ones died. Lots of BS down that route. Then your mechanic will say I've done X number of these installs and they are all fine... my work was solid. No indy will touch your case because they all want to maintain good relationships with each other.

my 0.02 cents about lawyers is, we need them but most (not all) usually end up screwing not only the other guy... but also their own clients for money. The only one who gets rich on cases is only the lawyer They have to make a living too... law skool isn't cheap after all. It's just mostly a dirty biz... that's why i went the engineering route instead of lawyer (same classes and same pedigree in skool... just different outcomes). Plus I wanted to be a doctor and I don't like the sight of needles/blood... so that didn't go far. Being from India... we can only choose from the following list: Doctor, lawyer, engineer, or business person... i went with computer science (a.k.a engineer). Next up will be an MBA, so I'll have 2 of the 4 bases covered... then I just need to marry a doctor and I'm golden!

[williamf]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Believe me, I work at a law firm and even I think that dragging lawyers into the mix is a bunk idea. I personally am grateful people are trying to further the platform and wanna reward people for making a great product but that also entails me having a running car. I can't afford to drop coin whenever a part that's supposed to work gets messed up due to something out of my control haha. Lawyers are really only there for if nobody can be civil and cooperate. I don't believe in bullying people with lawyers. Those guys give us in the business a bad name.
My real concern is how nobody is acknowledging the cost of labor here.

I think the labor question was responded to in an earlier post when someone quoted the common phrase "you have to pay to play." Here is what i think this phrase means.

Assuming the shop did nothing wrong and assuming there is no specific language in the warranty about paying for labor costs, then paying for the labor twice is your entry fee to the modding lifestyle. I recognize that it sucks, but this is the market's way of operating efficiently.

It is efficient because this kind of system gives the manufacture and shop incentive enough to make a good product and perform a good install, otherwise they will acquire a bad reputation and lose business and eventually go out of business. Furthermore, it discourages consumers from using substandard installation services or substandard parts and it discourages them from committing fraud in order to further some other purpose (like upgrading to a better part because the first part did not behave the way the consumer wanted). These are good checks and balances.

At the end of the day, there are several possible causes of a failure that cannot reasonably be determined. When I say reasonable, I mean without a lot of investigative time and money... more time and money than the actual issue is worth. Thus, the efficient solution is to accept the fact that the situation is not ideal and divide the costs between the possible responsible parties. This is exactly what happens when a manufacture replaces a defective part and a shop only charges you actual labor costs for the second job. Everyone loses a little and therefore everyone will attempt to avoid it.

Of course if you believe you have an entity who is trying to buck this system, that is when you have to weigh the pros and cons for legal action.

I have a threshold test I use for legal action. If I feel like the only way that I am going to get satisfaction from a situation I break it down like this.

Small claims: I will normally just let anything under $2,000 go because it is not worth my time to file and go through the headache and stress of going to court. So anything above $2,000 and below the jurisdictional limit of small claims (in my area this is $7500), I will probably handle it myself.

Major claims: I will pay my attorney for a couple of hours of time to discuss my issue and do some preliminary investigation, usually up to about $1,000 of his time. Then depending on what he thinks it will take in legal fees, time for resolution, and total recovery, I will determine if it is worth a major investment of my time. Generally, my estimated attorney's fees should be something less than 50% of the total recovery and I must have a reasonable chance of getting my attorneys fees back.

In the past 20 years I have had to apply the small claims rule 3 times and the major claims rule once. In hind sight, I let my feelings get in the way of the major claim and I made the wrong decision. Even though I won all of these cases, I regret the 4 years I invested in the major claim. I would not do it again. I would just eat the $20,000 lose and get on with my life.

[tony20009]

For some reason, I can't quote your original post....


OP Wrote:
...
Firstly, under Song-Beverly §1792, if the part is defective, they have to cover replacement labor. How can I go about having them do this without having to go to a lawyer?

My Response:
I don't know what Song-Beverly is, but if it's a state law or state court decision, it may not be binding on your vendor, particularly if they haven't nexus in your state. You should find out, and if they are bound by that law/ruling, just mention it and see what they say. Regardless, the easiest way to start is to explicitly ask the vendor if they will pay for the additional labor if the part is defective. I would do that before I contacted an attorney. Going to court, or even arriving at a settlement with the vendor after having filed suit, is not going to yield a speedy resolution, which is what you probably want.

OP Wrote:
Secondly, I suggested finding an outside source to determine fault. I have not received a response. The manufacturer wants to get the turbos back to determine fault, but there's a conflict of interest here. I have a feeling this might turn into a battle between my shop and the turbo mfg. What do you guys think is the fastest way to get a pair of upgraded turbos on my car and get it running?

My Response:
Do you have a reason to doubt their integrity? I'm not gonna lie. The tone of your comment above here sounds like you are barking for a fight with them, despite your question earlier about obtaining a result without an attorney. (And frankly, even that question was composed in way so as to imply a desire to pursue a legal challenge.) If that's what you want, fine; have at it.

OP Wrote:
The car is in the shop, and was completely healthy before. The shop has installed turbos on euro cars before and the mechanic that worked on my car is very familiar with N54's. After the turbo install, the car kinda just went to shit, with the smoke plumes and all that. Accidents happen, and I don't wanna place blame but the same shop that replaced the turbos has also pulled the engine from my car, rebuilt frames, swapped clutches, and done a host of other powertrain related things to cars i've had. I honestly have some serious doubts as to whether my shop would be at fault.

My Response:
I would think that if the installer is an authorized installer of the vendor's product, you should have no trouble getting satisfaction from the vendor. If the installer is not an authorized one, and the vendor does have authorized installers (as opposed to their just saying any service facility that does thus and such can install their product), you are exposed to the risk that the vendor could blame the installer, and regardless of that installer's experience and familiarity with your car, you'd have a uphill charge on your hands to prove you are due any recovery for the additional labor costs. If it did get to a legal contest, you would have the burden of proof, not the vendor.

OP Wrote:
...

My initial suggestion was i'd flatbed the car to the mfg's shop (my expense), have the manufacturer install working turbos at their expense, and pay some extra change for an upgrade in the process (extra business for them), while leaving the old turbos to them for inspection, that way i'd get a replacement part and that would satisfy the requirements for reimbursement of labor.

What do you guys think? I really don't want something for nothing, I just want my car to be the way it should have been from the get go.

My Response:
I think your suggestion seems reasonable. It's far more than I'd have offered them. I'd have insisted they pay for the transport of my car, on a flatbed, to them, whereupon they can do the install....that is assuming that having them do the install in the first place wasn't what they'd originally asked me to do.

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by williamf

I think the labor question was responded to in an earlier post when someone quoted the common phrase "you have to pay to play." Here is what i think this phrase means.

Assuming the shop did nothing wrong and assuming there is no specific language in the warranty about paying for labor costs, then paying for the labor twice is your entry fee to the modding lifestyle. I recognize that it sucks, but this is the market's way of operating efficiently.

It is efficient because this kind of system gives the manufacture and shop incentive enough to make a good product and perform a good install, otherwise they will acquire a bad reputation and lose business and eventually go out of business. Furthermore, it discourages consumers from using substandard installation services or substandard parts and it discourages them from committing fraud in order to further some other purpose (like upgrading to a better part because the first part did not behave the way the consumer wanted). These are good checks and balances.

See, the problem with this system is it's not how things work. Someone gets screwed here, but it should NEVER be the consumer. Sorry. You pay to play, but you don't play for other peoples screw ups. You're assuming that that's the way it is when it's not. I even took the time to quote law that's contrary to what you're suggesting. The checks and balances here are pretty simple. Consumer buys widget expecting it to work okay. That's an implied warranty. Product doesn't work, hence someone who is not the consumer is on the hook to fix it. This prevents manufacturer from screwing up, and they have an incentive to do it right the first time.This is what i'm dealing with. On the matter of me even proposing paying for an upgrade, its cause life gave me lemons here and i'm trying to make lemonade so my whole experience isn't soured here. I could care less about an upgrade, if it happens it happens (at my cost again), if not whatever, at least I have a driveable car again. I just wanna resolve this situation the morally correct way as opposed to being the douche with connections in the law field trying to twist someones arm into doing what I want.

At the end of the day, there are several possible causes of a failure that cannot reasonably be determined. When I say reasonable, I mean without a lot of investigative time and money... more time and money than the actual issue is worth. Thus, the efficient solution is to accept the fact that the situation is not ideal and divide the costs between the possible responsible parties. This is exactly what happens when a manufacture replaces a defective part and a shop only charges you actual labor costs for the second job. Everyone loses a little and therefore everyone will attempt to avoid it.

I've already lost the use of my car. Let's not victim blame. My only dog in the fight is providing a car and money for the turbos. I paid into this by purchasing the turbos and paying for the install and SHOULD NOT owe anything more. I refuse to back down from this and 'accept my fate' as being screwed over as efficient. There's nothing efficient here about throwing money at the problem, I consider it wasteful. Either shop or MFG screwed up here. I refuse to pay three grand for a relatively simple install due to negligence or human error on either the MFG or shop side. I even proposed a solution where I would suck it up and be a big boy and make things happen, but i've been ignored so far unfortunately. I don't mind reaching a solution that might cost everyone time and money but it needs to be fair to everyone. Unfortunately, the parties involved have ignored this so far.

Of course if you believe you have an entity who is trying to buck this system, that is when you have to weigh the pros and cons for legal action.

I don't think we can decide who is trying to 'buck the system' under your assumed criteria of what the system is. Just to clarify, I don't feel like people are trying to be malicious intentionally, but I do feel like people are dragging their feet in determining what is morally and legally right here as well as skirting some degree of culpability on both sides of the process. For the sake of this discussion though, I think people are trying to stick their heads in the sand and wait for me to admit defeat. Ultimately, nobody should feel at a loss if this is resolved correctly. It is possible, believe it or not.

I have a threshold test I use for legal action. If I feel like the only way that I am going to get satisfaction from a situation I break it down like this.

Small claims: I will normally just let anything under $2,000 go because it is not worth my time to file and go through the headache and stress of going to court. So anything above $2,000 and below the jurisdictional limit of small claims (in my area this is $7500), I will probably handle it myself.

Major claims: I will pay my attorney for a couple of hours of time to discuss my issue and do some preliminary investigation, usually up to about $1,000 of his time. Then depending on what he thinks it will take in legal fees, time for resolution, and total recovery, I will determine if it is worth a major investment of my time. Generally, my estimated attorney's fees should be something less than 50% of the total recovery and I must have a reasonable chance of getting my attorneys fees back.

In the past 20 years I have had to apply the small claims rule 3 times and the major claims rule once. In hind sight, I let my feelings get in the way of the major claim and I made the wrong decision. Even though I won all of these cases, I regret the 4 years I invested in the major claim. I would not do it again. I would just eat the $20,000 lose and get on with my
life.
Sound advice here, grand scheme of things this is nothing, but my car is my passion. Recovery fees are not a concern for me since people I know and work with would handle this, but I do not anticipate even taking it this far. Something about bringing the legal element into this just feels like it's against 'man code' of resolving things in a good-faith manner. I don't want to punish innovators, but I want to be treated fairly and I feel like my solution is pretty reasonable.

Honestly, what would you guys do in my shoes?

[Snaggletooth]

Originally Posted by tony20009

For some reason, I can't quote your original post....


OP Wrote:
...
Firstly, under Song-Beverly §1792, if the part is defective, they have to cover replacement labor. How can I go about having them do this without having to go to a lawyer?

My Response:
I don't know what Song-Beverly is, but if it's a state law or state court decision, it may not be binding on your vendor, particularly if they haven't nexus in your state. You should find out, and if they are bound by that law/ruling, just mention it and see what they say. Regardless, the easiest way to start is to explicitly ask the vendor if they will pay for the additional labor if the part is defective. I would do that before I contacted an attorney. Going to court, or even arriving at a settlement with the vendor after having filed suit, is not going to yield a speedy resolution, which is what you probably want.


Yes, In California it is a protective law and guarantees that the consumer is not held liable for shoddy work. I've reached out to the MFG in regards to this and have been ignored, which sucks.

OP Wrote:
Secondly, I suggested finding an outside source to determine fault. I have not received a response. The manufacturer wants to get the turbos back to determine fault, but there's a conflict of interest here. I have a feeling this might turn into a battle between my shop and the turbo mfg. What do you guys think is the fastest way to get a pair of upgraded turbos on my car and get it running?

My Response:
Do you have a reason to doubt their integrity? I'm not gonna lie. The tone of your comment above here sounds like you are barking for a fight with them, despite your question earlier about obtaining a result without an attorney. (And frankly, even that question was composed in way so as to imply a desire to pursue a legal challenge.) If that's what you want, fine; have at it.


I don't doubt the integrity necessarily, but I do see where a conflict of interest comes into play here. MFG can simply claim 'shop screwed the pooch' and there goes any warranty promised. Third party would be fair, unless MFG promised results from the get-go. Trust me, if I wanted a fight i'd be naming names and crying the blues about how horrible XXXX's product is and how bad XXXX makes turbos, etc. I have been trained to sidestep potential for swindling, as well as knowing when to cover my own ass. I feel like a neutral third party is where that comes into effect. Simultaneously, I feel like i'm using a good amount of restraint and not putting anyone in particular on blast here.

OP Wrote:
The car is in the shop, and was completely healthy before. The shop has installed turbos on euro cars before and the mechanic that worked on my car is very familiar with N54's. After the turbo install, the car kinda just went to shit, with the smoke plumes and all that. Accidents happen, and I don't wanna place blame but the same shop that replaced the turbos has also pulled the engine from my car, rebuilt frames, swapped clutches, and done a host of other powertrain related things to cars i've had. I honestly have some serious doubts as to whether my shop would be at fault.

My Response:
I would think that if the installer is an authorized installer of the vendor's product, you should have no trouble getting satisfaction from the vendor. If the installer is not an authorized one, and the vendor does have authorized installers (as opposed to their just saying any service facility that does thus and such can install their product), you are exposed to the risk that the vendor could blame the installer, and regardless of that installer's experience and familiarity with your car, you'd have a uphill charge on your hands to prove you are due any recovery for the additional labor costs. If it did get to a legal contest, you would have the burden of proof, not the vendor.

Man, this is super complex. All I wanted was more boost!!
OP Wrote:
...

My initial suggestion was i'd flatbed the car to the mfg's shop (my expense), have the manufacturer install working turbos at their expense, and pay some extra change for an upgrade in the process (extra business for them), while leaving the old turbos to them for inspection, that way i'd get a replacement part and that would satisfy the requirements for reimbursement of labor.

What do you guys think? I really don't want something for nothing, I just want my car to be the way it should have been from the get go.

My Response:
I think your suggestion seems reasonable. It's far more than I'd have offered them. I'd have insisted they pay for the transport of my car, on a flatbed, to them, whereupon they can do the install....that is assuming that having them do the install in the first place wasn't what they'd originally asked me to do.

THANK YOU! I wanna see who else agrees with this. I'm willing to eat the cost of gas, lodging, and a U-Haul trailer to get my shitpile 335 to them if they would just agree to take care of this for me, and slap on some new, fully functional turbos (either the same as before or upgraded if they'll let me pay the difference, at their discretion). That's really all I want. As much as this sours my view of the MFG, I can't deny that they probably make a kick-ass product when everything is going right. If they'd play ball, i'd forgive and forget NO problem.

Thanks for your insight!

[Efthreeoh]

You've left out a bunch of information here, like how many miles/time did the problem start after the install, what does turbo manufacturer's the warranty say, and what does the shop warranty say. Also, did you buy the turbos and bring them to the shop to install, or did you buy the complete turbo upgrade as a turn-key installation?

All these things matter. If you bought it turn-key from the shop, then the issue of the labor is between the shop and the turbo manufacturer. If you bough the turbos yourself and brought the turbos to the shop for them to install without any warranty against the installation, then you are SOL.

[williamf]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Honestly, what would you guys do in my shoes?

The right answer is easily stated, but hard to follow. Just act like a reasonable person. Be honest. Try to understand where the other guy is coming from. Discuss the matter openly. Maintain a healthy skepticism. Recognize that if you get to the point that the "L" word is being used, you have already lost. Your one and only goal is to achieve a resolution that you can live with in the shortest amount of time.

The specifics about what we would do has already been stated in great detail. This can over complicate matters sometimes. So the paragraph above is the executive summary of all that stuff.

[Snaggletooth]

Well guys, I took your advice and we both reached a happy medium. I would pay for the second round of installment and the turbo supplier upgraded me a stage to help offset the cost of the install. All in all, a pretty fair trade. I won't reveal who was involved, but I will say that the supplier who was involved handled this like a real man and has definitely earned my respect.

[ken1137]

Dont bring up Song-Beverly §1792 unless you want to obtain a lawyer. Discuss a FOC replacement for the turbos and ask the supplier to pay for the install. Have them inspected by a 3rd party and have proof available and ready if they hesitate to pay for the install. Contact a lawyer then if the supplier refuses to do anything for you.

[williamf]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Well guys, I took your advice and we both reached a happy medium. I would pay for the second round of installment and the turbo supplier upgraded me a stage to help offset the cost of the install. All in all, a pretty fair trade. I won't reveal who was involved, but I will say that the supplier who was involved handled this like a real man and has definitely earned my respect.

That is great to hear. Getting the turbo upgrade is a huge plus and a surprise.

[Laguna Seca Blue]

Originally Posted by Snaggletooth

Well guys, I took your advice and we both reached a happy medium. I would pay for the second round of installment and the turbo supplier upgraded me a stage to help offset the cost of the install. All in all, a pretty fair trade. I won't reveal who was involved, but I will say that the supplier who was involved handled this like a real man and has definitely earned my respect.

There's only one turbo vendor who offers different "stages." Let's just hope you went form stage 2 to 3, that would be one hell of deal.