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BMW 3-Series and 4-Series Forum (F30 / F32) | F30POST > Technical Forums > N20, N26, B46, B48 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications > Suggestion for those w/the AFE Intake
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      03-26-2013, 02:20 PM   #1
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Suggestion for those w/the AFE Intake

I had a moment to check back into the forums after being away a while, and thought I'd pass along a (hopefully) helpful tip for those who are running the AFE sealed/cold air intake for the F30 328i. FYI my ride is a 2013 (8/12-build) F30 328i with the electronic solenoid. Tranny is the sport-option 8AT. My AFE CAI has the oiled filter and I also run the AFE vent scoops. Other go-fast mods installed before the AFE are the BMS Stage 1 tune (+3psi setting but running on 93 octane), which was followed by the full Magnaflow cat-back exhaust system.

First off, unfortunately my ride was in a heavy aquaplaning accident 2 weeks ago so I won't be able to send pics of this until I get my car back late next month. However, for those of you running the AFE who check into this, what I'm referring to should be fairly self-explanatory without visual aids...

After installing the BMS Stage 1 and the Magnaflow (highly recommend both btw) I wasn't sold on spending the money for the AFE CAI because of the long-standing debate on how much bang for your buck an intake provides us with newer-generation bimmers. However, I was able to snatch up a used AFE from a fellow community member for a pretty good price. After installing the intake, there's no doubt the butt dyno registered an increase in performance; The performance impact from the intake wasn't as noticeable as when I installed the tune or the cat-back, but it was noticeable nonetheless. The intake seems to benefit top-end the most, especially in highway driving conditions. I used to sense the N20 showed it was a 2.0 4cyl past 4.5k rpm or so; almost as if the engine ran out of breath after passing through the bulk of the torque curve. With the intake installed there's less drop-off after the torque-pull we all know and love.

Since my AFE was used I decided to give the filter a nice re-charge cleaning and oiling a couple weeks after it first went on the car. After re-installing the filter I did a quick double-check of all the intake connections and fasteners, and that's when I noticed how poor the "connection" is between the intake itself and the tube/channel that runs to the intake from the air intake duct behind the front grill. The problem is that even when I re-positioned everything to perfectly line up the intake inlet to the duct outlet, there was nothing to seat the two together so a gap would always develop. In the end I used a decent amount of duck tape all around the connection point to seal the intake to the duct. Once you get into the engine and examine for yourself you'll see what I'm referring to.

With the intake sealed up like this I felt the positive effects of the intake were definitely increased from before sealing the connection, again with the greatest difference being felt on top-end power. Sealing the connection made the intake even sound different than before (mostly the timing and volume of the off-throttle hisses), and I calculated out an average 1.9 mpg increase over the fuel-economy test I run in highway cruise on my commute (5x round trips).

I'm interested to see if someone else tries this relatively simple mod to their AFE and finds the same positive effects result...
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      03-26-2013, 03:04 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper328i View Post
However, I was able to snatch up a used AFE from a fellow community member for a pretty good price. After installing the intake, there's no doubt the butt dyno registered an increase in performance;

In the end I used a decent amount of duck tape
Worth buying a good condition used unit for testing, which is essentially what you did. Glad it's worked out for you, especially with the duck tape. It may perform better with duct tape - or did the spell corrector catch you out as it does me on many occasions?
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      03-26-2013, 03:25 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David328M-Sport View Post
Worth buying a good condition used unit for testing, which is essentially what you did. Glad it's worked out for you, especially with the duck tape. It may perform better with duct tape - or did the spell corrector catch you out as it does me on many occasions?
haha Actually on this one occasion it wasn't even the spell corrector; the brand-name duct tape we have here is called "Duck Tape"... The brand label even comes with a cartoon duck on it to really drive home the super clever play on words just in case someone misses it! lol
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      03-26-2013, 03:49 PM   #4
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Basically I am down or this intake but only for about $200. Mod bargains had them for $270 on black Friday which is about right. I paid $300 for a carbon fiber intake on my last car, that's silly enough for what is largely just sound.
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      03-26-2013, 04:04 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Basically I am down or this intake but only for about $200. Mod bargains had them for $270 on black Friday which is about right. I paid $300 for a carbon fiber intake on my last car, that's silly enough for what is largely just sound.
Largely just sound?? More important than that is the fact it was CARBON FIBER!!!!! haha Sorry I just find it funny how carbon fiber has turned into what chrome used to be...
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      03-26-2013, 04:30 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper328i View Post
Largely just sound?? More important than that is the fact it was CARBON FIBER!!!!! haha Sorry I just find it funny how carbon fiber has turned into what chrome used to be...
Yeah, the point was that even made out of carbon fiber it was still $150 less than the AFE retails for.
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      03-26-2013, 04:55 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
Yeah, the point was that even made out of carbon fiber it was still $150 less than the AFE retails for.
No doubt the bang/buck ratio for a retail AFE should put it down towards the bottom of the mod to-do list.

Has anyone seen a back-to-back dyno chart for the AFE from someone other than AFE themselves? I'm interested enough that I think I'm gonna do a comparison dyno at some point down the road.
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      03-26-2013, 06:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper328i View Post
haha Actually on this one occasion it wasn't even the spell corrector; the brand-name duct tape we have here is called "Duck Tape"... The brand label even comes with a cartoon duck on it to really drive home the super clever play on words just in case someone misses it! lol
I did a Google check before first posting but I did not see it.
I have again. LOL, very good.
Cheers

For everyone else, here it is:

http://duckbrand.com
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      03-26-2013, 09:12 PM   #9
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Ya must have some sensitive butt to feel the diff.
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      03-27-2013, 01:17 AM   #10
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i want to buy an afe at a great price from someone..pm me
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      03-27-2013, 08:58 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ixse View Post
Ya must have some sensitive butt to feel the diff.
Whoa. At least throw a no-homo disclaimer in there when you write something like that! lol

Just curious though, are you running the aFe too? If so, what other power mods are you running along with it? I ask because I find the current trend in the F30 community's opinion on the effects (or lack thereof) of intakes in general are based purely on herd mentality and not on actual experience or back-to-back dyno data.

So far as I've seen, the only F30/N20 dynos out there specifically focusing on intake gains are those from the manufacturers (which should be taken with a grain of salt). Other than that, the only intake-analysis dyno I've found is in that european car article focusing on Evolution Racewerks' bolt-ons.

Further still, aren't dyno charts a fundamentally flawed measure for evaluating intakes? This point has appeared to be pretty convincing in similar debates on the intake gains for other platforms. For instance, I remember reading a post a while back from a E92/N54 modder who only measured performance gains by installing bolt-ons at the track in conjunction with performing a series of 1/4 mile comparisons runs. I wish I could find this particular post because his 1/4 times dropped more than I expected from installing the aFe sealed intake for that platform.

Don't take all of this as me trying to make a point because I'm just as skeptical as you guys are. I'm just interested on getting some more definitive information for the intake on our F30 N20.
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      03-27-2013, 09:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper328i View Post
Whoa. At least throw a no-homo disclaimer in there when you write something like that! lol

Just curious though, are you running the aFe too? If so, what other power mods are you running along with it? I ask because I find the current trend in the F30 community's opinion on the effects (or lack thereof) of intakes in general are based purely on herd mentality and not on actual experience or back-to-back dyno data.

So far as I've seen, the only F30/N20 dynos out there specifically focusing on intake gains are those from the manufacturers (which should be taken with a grain of salt). Other than that, the only intake-analysis dyno I've found is in that european car article focusing on Evolution Racewerks' bolt-ons.

Further still, aren't dyno charts a fundamentally flawed measure for evaluating intakes? This point has appeared to be pretty convincing in similar debates on the intake gains for other platforms. For instance, I remember reading a post a while back from a E92/N54 modder who only measured performance gains by installing bolt-ons at the track in conjunction with performing a series of 1/4 mile comparisons runs. I wish I could find this particular post because his 1/4 times dropped more than I expected from installing the aFe sealed intake for that platform.

Don't take all of this as me trying to make a point because I'm just as skeptical as you guys are. I'm just interested on getting some more definitive information for the intake on our F30 N20.
The only other relevant dynos are BMS testing on stage 2 where he said that the intake had no affect.
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      03-27-2013, 11:18 AM   #13
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got any sound clips?
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      03-27-2013, 11:20 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
The only other relevant dynos are BMS testing on stage 2 where he said that the intake had no affect.
Definitely good point, I forgot to include what BMS' statement was on intakes. But BMS didn't even dyno an intake, right? Here's their quote:

Quote:
3) During testing we opened up the airbox to simulate a high flow intake and determine the potential for intake power gains. In doing so we found exactly zero horsepower gained even at these high boost levels. The factory airbox is simply not a restriction at 300rw. For this reason we suggest you use only the factory airbox with the N20 platform. Companies claiming gains with intakes on this platform are fooling themselves and/or you.
I can't figure out from this how they "opened up the airbox" or how doing so would accurately simulate a "high flow intake" in an already simulated environment... And what kind of intake would that be simulating exactly?

If I'm reading into things correctly then I'm guessing the intent was to simulate an unsealed Injen/ER-type intake; if true, then I think their general conclusion is supported by what was found in that european car dyno. But I think everyone generally agrees that an unsealed tube intake is not the same thing as a sealed unit connected to a functioning hood scoop, right?

Like I said though, I'm interested enough to spend some time on this once I get my ride back next month...
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      03-27-2013, 03:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jamesons Viggen View Post
The only other relevant dynos are BMS testing on stage 2 where he said that the intake had no affect.
Yes, during testing, Terry removed the stock filter to 'simulate' a non restrictive intake and found his dyno figures were pretty much unchanged and as a result, had a go at intake manufacturers' claims about their wheel hp gains, as Stormtrooper stated above. It wasn't replaced with any other filter during testing. I too, don't know what conclusions can come of it, but I'm only interested in the JB anyway.

Again, only dyno tests, NOT on the road test.
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      07-17-2013, 08:51 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stormtrooper328i View Post
Definitely good point, I forgot to include what BMS' statement was on intakes. But BMS didn't even dyno an intake, right? Here's their quote:



I can't figure out from this how they "opened up the airbox" or how doing so would accurately simulate a "high flow intake" in an already simulated environment... And what kind of intake would that be simulating exactly?

If I'm reading into things correctly then I'm guessing the intent was to simulate an unsealed Injen/ER-type intake; if true, then I think their general conclusion is supported by what was found in that european car dyno. But I think everyone generally agrees that an unsealed tube intake is not the same thing as a sealed unit connected to a functioning hood scoop, right?

Like I said though, I'm interested enough to spend some time on this once I get my ride back next month...
Any updated on your afe intake? Would you be able to better explain with pics about the duct tape fix.

Thanks!
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      07-24-2013, 09:17 PM   #17
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I'd contact AFE cause their is no way that this flaw should be fixed with tape. There is either something wrong with that intake or something wrong with how it is installed.

If you are suggesting there is a design flaw with the product I would be pretty surprised about that.
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      07-25-2013, 04:33 PM   #18
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I have it, I just notice a increase in sound that's all. Is the vent worth getting.
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      07-30-2013, 09:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SergioK View Post
I'd contact AFE cause their is no way that this flaw should be fixed with tape. There is either something wrong with that intake or something wrong with how it is installed.

If you are suggesting there is a design flaw with the product I would be pretty surprised about that.
I'd definitely put it down to a design flaw.

It's hard to explain, but the best I can describe it is that the stock intake connection has a seated connection to the intake ducting that routes to the opening behind the grille. The way that the stock ducting mates up to the stock intake box ensures a complete connection between the two (with no gaps). The aFe does not have this same seated connection; instead, the aFe box merely lines up with the intake ducting. As a result, you can see and feel some fairly substantial gaps at the connection point once the aFe is installed.

Its not a huge issue, but if you're trying to maximize the "ram-air" benefits of the cooler air being collected by the scoop behind the grille, then I think you'd want to seal the ducting connection to the aFe airbox.
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