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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Heel Toe Technique



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      07-20-2007, 05:31 PM   #1
BMWdrmz
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Heel Toe Technique

Can any offer any advice for mastering heel/ toe technique. I can not get this to save my life. I think I'm fundamentally doing something wrong.
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      07-20-2007, 06:20 PM   #2
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its a PITA to do in the bimmer. Im pretty well accomplished at it, but the drive by wire throttle response absolutley sucks when the clutch is disengaged...a small blip gets like 1200 rpm, and it goes back to idling.

My 240 was awesome..whoever said drive by wire was faster than a cable actuated one must be off their rocker.
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      07-20-2007, 11:08 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWdrmz View Post
Can any offer any advice for mastering heel/ toe technique. I can not get this to save my life. I think I'm fundamentally doing something wrong.
I'm no expert, but here's my technique for practicing the throttle blip: With your car stationary, put your right foot on the brake. Only the left half of your right foot. Press on the brake with some force, as if you were braking for an upcoming turn. Now while maintaining force on the brake, roll your right foot and like you're spraining your ankle and you should be able to push the throttle with the right side of your right foot. You may find that you have to experiment with the position of the right foot. Pedals on a BMW are not as close together as a true race car, so I have to have my foot angled somewhat like \, but your foot position depends on the size of your feet and the shoes you're wearing. If you do this, you'll have the feeling of keeping on the brake while blipping the throttle. Just do this as the revs run down during breaking, after you you step on the clutch.

Hope this works for you!
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      07-21-2007, 12:47 AM   #4
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Ell and of course be aware that it's NOT really HEAL TOE anymore... Not really.

It's more Big Toe Brakes Little Toe Blips...

But ya prolly knew that.

Also the OEM Peddles are not properly spaced if you are wearing any sort of driving shoe, they are too far apart.
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      07-21-2007, 01:02 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMWdrmz View Post
Can any offer any advice for mastering heel/ toe technique. I can not get this to save my life. I think I'm fundamentally doing something wrong.
the best way to learn those techniques is to do it gradually. In case of heel-toe you might want to try it while still parked to learn to blip the gas.

do not try heel-toe, try ball of foot vs. knife of foot, try it while the car is parked but may want the car on. If you give the engine too much gas while it's off it might not start and you might need to roll it to start it (at least on old cars this used to be the case)
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      07-21-2007, 05:27 AM   #6
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Thanks for the feedback. I'll try the suggestions today.
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      07-21-2007, 06:03 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mantisG35 View Post
If you give the engine too much gas while it's off it might not start and you might need to roll it to start it (at least on old cars this used to be the case)
Can't flood an engine without a throttle linkage!
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      07-21-2007, 01:50 PM   #8
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It is always fun to see real heal and toe in action. There have been some good in car videos, one NASCAR in particular where you actually really do use your heal to brake and your toes to blip the throttle. Most sedan street car pedals are not set up for this "original" technique.
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      07-23-2007, 03:54 AM   #9
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check this out:

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.shtml

also the whole site content is a nice read for all of U tracking the car out of the straight line, start @ the beginning.
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      07-23-2007, 11:39 AM   #10
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The trick to doing heel/toe is to do it ALL the time! I do use the big toe/little toe technique. But again I'd make sure you are really familiar with it before you use it on the track. I had it down on my e46 but still working on how much gas to give on the e92.
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      07-23-2007, 04:45 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by judec View Post
check this out:

http://www.turnfast.com/tech_driving..._heeltoe.shtml

also the whole site content is a nice read for all of U tracking the car out of the straight line, start @ the beginning.
great read. Thanks
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      07-23-2007, 05:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by itsbrokeagain View Post
its a PITA to do in the bimmer.
jesus, i think its EASY in a bimmer, my last car the gas pedal was 6 inches back from the brake pedal, that was fun
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      07-23-2007, 07:39 PM   #13
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Get a wider pair of shoes. I wear some stylish leather tennis shoes that just happen to have a super wide ball-of-foot area. Like others said, it's more bigtoe/knife edge rather than heel/toe.

And practice everywhere. When I'm heading to a stoplight, I'll row down through the gears, even if I'm lightly applying the brake. Be careful that you focus on the brake - better to screw up the blip than screw up the braking as you're entering a turn at 135mph and need to slow to 60mph for the turn-in!
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      08-08-2007, 03:13 AM   #14
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I am trying heel toe, as it's annoying to not be able to do a smooth downshift while braking.

I think problem with bimmer is that the level of the gas pedal depressed is where the brake is fully pressed. A floor mounted pedal makes things even harder as ur heel will press on the pivot point of the gas pedal if you actually try 'heel' and toe. Last but not least the gas pedal is right at the edge of the footwell (my old accord had probably 2 inches from the edge of the pedal to the side of the foot well), making heeling the gas difficult if you have a large foot.

The roll foot technique works but I find it hard to control gas and runs the risk of slipping on the brake pedal. Moreover using this technique I have to angle my foot a lot to be able to floor the pedal if needed (3rd to 2nd at 3k rpm almost want a floored blip). Since I have a small Asian foot, I am trying to actually get my foot to step on the brake more towards the left (away from the gas pedal) and actually heeling the gas. Stepping more towards the left on the brake is needed otherwise your heel hits the footwell side wall...

I don't know if this is a good idea at all as compared to the roll foot method. I was watching the CTR FR2 test drive by Best Motoring. It was also a floor mounted gas pedal and the Tsuchiya was actually doing a full heel toe as I described above rather than a roll foot technique. On the other hand however I also saw Jenson Button driving the FR2 and the clip shows him doing a roll foot technique.....

Anybody able to describe the pro's and con's of the two different techniques? Maybe one is more proper than the other by any chance?
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      08-08-2007, 10:02 AM   #15
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Whats the advantage of heel toe shifting? Ive never done it.
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      08-08-2007, 10:33 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fraggy View Post
Whats the advantage of heel toe shifting? Ive never done it.
Fraggy, the idea is to match the engine revs for a smooth downshift while braking. For most street driving, it's for the ultimate in smooth driving. In a racing situation, it's necessary; if you're at the limits of traction while braking into a corner and you downshift, dumping the clutch will jerk the entire car from engine braking, and you'll spin.

The link above explains it all pretty well.
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      08-08-2007, 12:01 PM   #17
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BiscottiGelato - You should be able to use the roll technique. I have a very small foot 9 narrow and it works for me. Better when I'm wearing regular tennis shoes than work shoes because they have a bit of a flare. You don't need to floor the gas just match the RPM's which isn't too much gas as it should be out of gear when you are doing this.

The real racers have a totally different car that requires a different technique. For street cars and for bimmers the roll the foot works very well.

You also mentioned that the brake needs to be fully engaged before you can feel the gas. How many miles do you have on your car? I felt this when it was very new. However as I put more miles on it the brake pedal went down significantly. At about 2K miles it was about even with regular braking. Now it lines up pretty well (4K miles).
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      08-10-2007, 01:00 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bartman32 View Post
BiscottiGelato - You should be able to use the roll technique. I have a very small foot 9 narrow and it works for me. Better when I'm wearing regular tennis shoes than work shoes because they have a bit of a flare. You don't need to floor the gas just match the RPM's which isn't too much gas as it should be out of gear when you are doing this.

The real racers have a totally different car that requires a different technique. For street cars and for bimmers the roll the foot works very well.

You also mentioned that the brake needs to be fully engaged before you can feel the gas. How many miles do you have on your car? I felt this when it was very new. However as I put more miles on it the brake pedal went down significantly. At about 2K miles it was about even with regular braking. Now it lines up pretty well (4K miles).
got 2k km on the car now, possibly why it's kinda hard to get to the gas pedal while on the brake now? I'm guessing it's actually the thickness of the brake pads that determines how much you cna press down on the brake pedal?
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      08-10-2007, 08:38 AM   #19
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This is a reply I posted a while back on the same subject.
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Originally Posted by HRC View Post
I came from Japanese cars, where the gas pedals were "hung from the top" which made heel & toe really difficult. BMW's as well as other euro brands offer a true heel-toe experience with exact pedal placement. Notice how the dead pedal is on the same plane as the gas?

Anyhow, here are a couple of pics...

The first pic is how not to do it, as you really don't use your heel or toe,

and the second one is how you do it.


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      08-10-2007, 08:50 PM   #20
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Search youtube for "Heel and toe" to find demo videos on the techniques

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      08-11-2007, 04:19 AM   #21
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i cant do this to save my life. whenever i try to blip the throttle, i end up slamming on the brakes at the same time and it all goes to shit
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      08-11-2007, 01:05 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suareezay View Post
i cant do this to save my life. whenever i try to blip the throttle, i end up slamming on the brakes at the same time and it all goes to shit
Have you been able to "heel-toe" on your other cars? If so, you probally just have to get used to the pedal placement on the BMW. The main thing your doing with your right foot is "tilting" it or "rolling" it over to blip the throttle. Keep your right side of your right foot even on the brake and just tilt your left side on to the gas pedal. Try doing this when your not moving, like in your driveway. Once you get the hang of hitting the gas while mainting the same pressure on the brake, your good to start practing on the street.

Next - Double clutch...

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