[sjk9671]

So I have been researching this paddle shift retrofit idea for a couple weeks now and still have one question.

I have a 335xi with sports wheel with no paddles. I know I have to get a new wheel (one that has the paddles or cutouts) but do I also need to replace the multi function buttons?

I’m planning to go with the harness from buger does this make a difference? My goal was new wheel + DCT or LCI paddles and burger motorsports harness.

Thanks in advance;
Steve

[B-737]

if your going with the LCI (or DCT) paddles the burger kit "needs to be changed" and "does not work with the LCI / DCT pull type paddles" (they use two wires each), this is what i was told straight from burger. Their kit only works with the push pull type older thumb paddles (three wires each). You do NOT need to spend $250 on two wires and a install guide from Burger.

all the information you need is right here:
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...9#post10422849

Your MF buttons, trim and airbag will all swap right over to your new wheel.

this mod is well worth your time! Its very easy to do, just get all your ducks in a row, prepare ahead, re-read everything, and work methodically through it.

[sjk9671]

So now I just need to find the right wheel and paddle setup....

[1QuikWS6]

if your going with the LCI (or DCT) paddles the burger kit "needs to be changed" and "does not work with the LCI / DCT pull type paddles" (they use two wires each), this is what i was told straight from burger. Their kit only works with the push pull type older thumb paddles (three wires each). You do NOT need to spend $250 on two wires and a install guide from Burger.

Well, that statement is somewhat misleading...

The Burger kit DOES work with either the SSG (Push/Pull) style paddles, or the M3 SMG/DCT paddles - it does not work with the LCI DCT paddles due to the way the LCI paddles are made. They need to be modified by removing a resistor on each before they will work at all on ANY paddle retrofit (regardless of how they are wired).

The reason you did not run into that problem is because you bought your LCI paddles from Nexon - they already pre-modify the paddles accordingly for them to work in a retrofit - otherwise the LCI paddles would not have worked with your wiring schematic either...

It has nothing to do with whether paddles have 2 wires or 3. The SSG (Push/Pull) paddles have 3 wires:

(1) for 'Push'
(1) for 'Pull'
(1) for Ground

While the M3 DCT paddles only have 2 wires because there is only one action + Ground

All the Burger Kit does is make a clean PnP connection between the connector at the rear of the slip ring behind wheel to the console shifter harness - so yes, you would either need the MFB for paddle shift, or cut the paddle wires and run to black connector and ground.

I chose to just buy the correct MFB buttons because I don't like to hack up auto wiring if there is an oem solution that requires no cutting. I also knew I could make my own harness similar to Burger kit - but chose to just buy the Burger Kit since it was already premade and PnP. I have the luxury of more $$, but less time available.

Obviously, your slip ring connector behind the wheel had the corresponding wires to match with position 4 & 6 from wheel connector - otherwise your schematic would not have worked. You cut and ran the paddle wires to the open 4 & 6 slots in wheel side connector, then ran from under dash to console shifter from #35 & #52 - so your car HAD to have the 2 wires from slip ring connector that apparently correspond to #35/#52 under dash.

In may be noted that not all cars have these corresponding wires present in the slip ring connector so your wiring schematic would not have worked as there would be no physical connection between wheel and under dash.

The MFB buttons for paddle shift are not majic - all they do is essentially take the signal from paddles and route them thru to #4 & #6 on the wheel black connector using oem PnP connectors. Your wiring scheme for getting signal from paddles to black connector is fine if you want to save $$ and don't mind cutting wires.

Also like to mention that the Paddle Shift Harness can be purchased thru 'Motive Mods' - the originator of the paddle shift retrofit. They can be found selling on eBay and price for harness is $169 vs the Burger $200 (all though I see Burger has theirs on sale now for $169 - go figure )

[B-737]

if there is a cleaner way, what your saying, to connect to the shifter wires, then by all means i would have done the burger kit, i placed the order with them, they cx'd it when they saw i was using the LCI paddles.

I did not cut any wires on my car (just one pin off each LCI paddle). that said, if there is a cleaner way to not remove pins from the main black harness, and not splice at the shifter, then im in.

here are the facts that i got from Burger directly...
"their kit will not work with ANY pull type paddles" unless "you move some pins around", their kit "will will work with SSG and its plug and play".
when i asked them about the resistor, and linked them to your post where you talk about modifying the resistor, they flat out said "not sure why youd have to do that, that they *should work* with some modifications (to the pins)" and did not go into further detail.

honestly, i would love nothing more than to replace pins 35/52 back into the harness where they belong, remove the pig tails i added to the shifter wires, cover the splice, and use a plug and play harness. but Burger simply did not disclose any further information than what i wrote above which wasnt enough info for me.

In all fairness, Nexon did know that i was doing a retro fit, and i am not sure if they made any changes to the LCI paddles themselves. As when i received them, they looked stock to me, esp by looking at the wires. If Nexon were to have modified my paddles wouldnt they have also removed the factory connector since that isnt used.

also, weather is the M3 DCT or the LCI paddles, its my understanding they are working the same exact way, just switching to ground, they both only have two wires. so whats good for one, is going to be good for the other.

Im going to email burger again, because if i can get more info from them, on if their system will work with just plugs then i'll do it so i could remove the pig tails and put the pins back. I'll report back.

im no expert here, so the more we uncover about this the better. im open to where your coming from and getting to the bottom of all this...

[1QuikWS6]

I'm not saying in any way that your method is not correct (obviously it is as your paddles work).

I'm stating that the BMS Harness does work with the pre-LCI M3 DCT style paddles that are '+' one side & '-' other side - I actually talked with them and they stated that it does work + their website states that in several places (see bold red highlighted text in pics below).

Why they are so adament about telling you that it doesn't work, or the fact that they say their kit only works with the specific set of MFB that they give P/N for (Diamond/Star buttons), is beyond me

Because I used their harness with the M3 DCT paddles, and paddle shift MFB that are appropriate for my car (CD Changer button on top/AC Recirc button on bottom) and it works fine.

Here's their site:






All I can figure is that they only tested their harness with the one particular set of MFB and stating that it will only work with those is a CYA thing...

As for the LCI DCT paddles, I would agree that their harness does not work with those unless the paddles themselves are modified - refer to the following post regarding a members problem with same:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...t=paddle+shift

And the thread where a member bought LCI paddles just as you did from Nexon & finally get them to work. Nexon told him the paddles were modified, but not what was done specifically.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=22

when i installed the lci paddles even trying to rewire them they just would not work, i told nexon motors where i bought them and he sent me another set he said had been modified, i then took them to a bmw independant workshop and he fitted them and they worked. i dont know what nexon did to them or hwhat the workshop did unfortunately. they do work and are much nicer to use. i suggest you contact nexon motors and see if he will help you

Another member in same thread took apart a set of LCI paddles and figured out how to modify by removing one resistor & shorting out the other (which is apparently what Nexon does for you). Without this modification, it appears that the LCI paddles will not work with ANY wiring schematic if they are being retrofitted into a pre-LCI car that did not have paddle shift.

So basically, the fact that you bought the paddles from Nexon already modified is why they work.

The Burger harness is simply a jumper harness consisting of a 12 pin female connector that plugs in place of factory connector at the slip ring connection behind wheel, and has 2 wires coming off of Pins #2 & 4, that match up with the new wires #2 & 4 that come from paddles to wheel side black connector. These 2 wires then run to the jumper harness that goes to shifter with blue connectors. The rest of the wires coming from slip ring are in connector as before and pass thru to factory harness. So all they did was continue #2 & 4 from wheel side-to slip ring side-to shifter. Exactly as other threads show how to make your own harness.

I guess it's hard to explain with out a pic of the harness, but they don't want pics or instructions to be posted (even though everyone already knows how its done) and I'll respect their wishes.

Long story short, I used the BMS harness, with an M3 DCT paddle wheel (with 2 wire paddle connectors instead of the SSG 3 wire), and the correct paddle MFB for my car (instead of the ones they stated were only ones that will work) - and my car functions correctly.

[B-737]

Argh! So much to write but my plane is leaving the gate !

The Burger harness is simply a jumper harness consisting of a 12 pin female connector that plugs in place of factory connector at the slip ring connection behind wheel, and has 2 wires coming off of Pins #2 & 4, that match up with the new wires #2 & 4 that come from paddles to wheel side black connector. These 2 wires then run to the jumper harness that goes to shifter with blue connectors. The rest of the wires coming from slip ring are in connector as before and pass thru to factory harness. So all they did was continue #2 & 4 from wheel side-to slip ring side-to shifter. Exactly as other threads show how to make your own harness.

Had I known this fact I would have bought the BMS kit from the get go!
In fact, I will buy it, and use this system as it's way cleaner than what I did.

More points to touch on, but I'll post back when I land.

(Before I go, I had the same MF buttons as you, stereo mode select and hvac)

[B-737]

Well articulated, thank you.

*but they don't want pics or instructions to be posted (even though everyone already knows how its done)

Part of my beef with this mod is this tight lipped approach. It's a piss poor way to do business, and a great way to lose customers. I wanted to do business w BMS first but the fact they wouldn't disclose even the most basic information about their product regarding questions I had is really what sent me over to Nexon. Who, through open communication is what gained my trust and my order.

That said, while the technique I used to wire them in works flawlessly, it bugs me to no end having pins 35/52 removed out of that connector. For that reason alone I'd pay the premium for the BMS kit.

I just wish from the beginning I had definitive answers from BMS. The only definitive statement I had from them is the LCI paddles wouldn't work with their kit without pinout changes at the paddle which is what threw me for a loop. Esp considering my car is LCI.

Doing this mod is no different than any other mod. It's a used car, BMW considers it's data proprietary. Ppl go out, reverse engineer their stuff. In this case they lock it up to make money. So their calling their information proprietary based off of proprietary info?! I don't buy that for one second. Information is meant to be free and shared. However, I will pay asking price for a unique finished product that integrates seamlessly to the vehicle.

It looks like what I'm going to end up doing is a hybrid; using Nexons paddles as I have them now, undoing my wiring and using the BMS kit to keep the install clean. Pins 35/52 go back where they belong, I shrink wrap my splices and call it a day

although I have no definitive info that the LCI paddles I got from Nexon were modified before I got them, I can definitely see what your saying and it appears to be correct.

These guys need to work together, like we do in this community on projects we undertake.

In a perfect world, BMS should have pointed me to Nexon as the LCI paddle source to use with their kit But everyone's too busy building walls. That's one of the reasons I went into such detail in my post about the install.

On the technical side:
On my install, if pins 35/52 are coming from the wheel, I then jumpered them to the shifter wires while leaving those pins unplugged at the glove box side.

Why is it that the BMS kit jumpers to the shifter wires yet does not require backing out pins 35/52 at the glove box?

Unless their connector interrupts (terminates) 35/52 to the glove box all together and replaces it w the new leads to the shifter??

[sjk9671]

Looks like I will shoot for the M3 DCT paddles. I will wire myself tho. Im not paying $169 for that.

[B-737]

sjk not trying to discourage you from taking it on yourself like I did but splicing 26/28 gauge wire without cutting conduit strands involves serious pucker factor. Your already investing fair amount of coin for this upgrade why not spend just a few extra dollars to really have a finished install? That's just my line of thinking.

I ordered the Burger kit last night, i will install it in place of my current set up.

[sjk9671]

Originally Posted by B-737

sjk not trying to discourage you from taking it on yourself like I did but splicing 26/28 gauge wire without cutting conduit strands involves serious pucker factor. Your already investing fair amount of coin for this upgrade why not spend just a few extra dollars to really have a finished install? That's just my line of thinking.

I ordered the Burger kit last night, i will install it in place of my current set up.

Let me know how your install goes. I might change my mind, but if I can save almost $200 for a couple hours work it's worth it in my mind.

Still not going with the new MFB either. I just need to get a wheel and paddles for a decent price.

[B-737]

I def agree, the time to install either way will prob be the same. I think your going to be fine keeping your MF buttons.

Nexon seems to be a great source for the paddles.

I'll prob have the new kit installed next week when it arrives and will def update here n the DIY I wrote up a few weeks ago.

[sjk9671]

Originally Posted by B-737

I def agree, the time to install either way will prob be the same. I think your going to be fine keeping your MF buttons.

Nexon seems to be a great source for the paddles.

I'll prob have the new kit installed next week when it arrives and will def update here n the DIY I wrote up a few weeks ago.

I that the company where their site is in another language? I tried going there but didnt have enough time yesterday to play with it.

[B-737]

Try an email, info@nexonmotors.com

[1QuikWS6]

On the technical side:
On my install, if pins 35/52 are coming from the wheel, I then jumpered them to the shifter wires while leaving those pins unplugged at the glove box side.

Why is it that the BMS kit jumpers to the shifter wires yet does not require backing out pins 35/52 at the glove box?

Unless their connector interrupts (terminates) 35/52 to the glove box all together and replaces it w the new leads to the shifter??

Take a look at the connector that I removed from the rear slip ring:





In that connector are positions #2 & 4 that match up with position #2 & 4 from the front wheel side connector that your MFB buttons plug into. If you have the paddle MFB, there are wires populated in the #2 & 4 of the MFB plug, if you have regular MFB, there are no wires present in #2 & 4 of MFB plug.

Wires #2 & 4 are the specific wires that send signal from paddle shifters.

Some cars (regardless of whether they have paddle shift or not) have wires populated in the rear slip ring connector in position #2 & 4, some do not:

Slip ring connector without wires (as my car was):



Slip ring connector with wires:



To use the BMS harness you unplug the rear slip ring connector pictured above, and plug in one end of the BMS 12 pin connector harness in it's place. Out of that plug come wires populated in #2 & 4 that run ONLY down to the shifter. They do not continue to the other end of the harness.

The original slip ring connector then plugs into the other end of the BMS harness. Essentially this passes ALL the original wires thru to their destination EXCEPT #2 & 4.

So if your car did not have slip ring 2 & 4, no harm/no foul. If it did, it essentiall terminates 2 & 4 @ the rear of the wheel.

I'm going to take a wild ass guess that wires 2 & 4 that come off of rear slip ring connector are the very same wires that end up at the glove box as your wires 35/52.

So basically, the BMS harness terminated 35/52, it just does it behind the wheel instead of under glove box where you did.

Note: thanx to pics from another thread on this subject

[B-737]

Man this was genius, thank you SO much for writing that up with the photos. I'm looking forward to putting my stuff back and using the BMS system.

Finally i have some clarity here.

your absolutely right, while my car did not have pins in 4 and 6 inside the wheel, but the pins I removed at 35/52 at the glove box, were the same ones you photographed after the slip ring.

Thank you Quik for making the light bulb turn on!

[jasonn]

Hey, thanks for the detailed write-up. So is this correct?

[B-737]

Yes!
another way to jumper to the middle shifter wires is from the pins 35/52 below the glove box in the black connector, attaching to them after unpinning them. But the above way I feel is a cleaner approach. It's at the other end.

[sjk9671]

Wow so much good info. So after doing it the way jasonn outlined all i would have to do is wire the paddles to in the connection on the other side of the slip ring!

It seems so easy....

[jasonn]

Here is a DIY for Non-PNP lol, same shiz.

[sjk9671]

Jasonn:

Have you done your retrofit yet? I see you got the wheel already. Im thinking of purchasing from the same guy.

[E90Brad]

Im too lazy to read all of this but I just did the paddle shift retro fit. I had to change my multifunction buttons. The car is an N54 335xi E90 non - iDrive.
Also when you get to the part where you tuck the wires in perfectly before setting the airback back into place. Actually make sure this is done. If you don't, you might have some problems. I certainly did....