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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Bubble bubble, tire and trouble
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      06-28-2011, 05:51 AM   #1
arthman
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Bubble bubble, tire and trouble

crap. was washing my rims yesterday and noticed 2 large bubbles 180 degrees apart on driver front tire. Goodyear eagle LS2 245/40R19 - 535ix, with sport option (not M). car is 2 months old, 3,000 miles, driven by the most conservative BMW owner on this forum, on decent central PA roads. What the HECK!!

After now reading all these posts I feel completely duped. purchased car 2 months ago, dealer obviously knows there are problems. if they had said... "wouldn't get this option because we have had issues with low profile Goodyear RFTs", or even "would definitely buy insurance because of issues if you really want these options", I would have still bought a BMW.

Instead, no discussion, "do you want tire insurance?" (no - I have driven for 35 years, only had a hand full of nails, never bent a rim OR had a defective tire). I am really ticked off.

Spoke with service manager, needs to inspect car. If "signs of impact" (wouldn;t tell me how they tell this) then no coverage, $400 to order a backordered tire, etc. Of course there are signs of impact, I drive on a damn road. Where do they expect us to drive?

This is all bull. BMW needs to fess up that they should never have sold these rims and these tires on a $75,000 auto that, gee whiz, you want to drive on a ROAD. I already logged my complaint on the NHTSA website. I don;t know anything about class action suits, but I can tell you that this is my second BMW, and while I loved my first one, that unless this is rectified, BMW has lost me as a future customer and I will spread the word about this to everyone I know contemplating buying a BMW, and if everyone else did that, maybe there would be enough oomph for BMW to stand tall and admit their mistake.

Would appreciate how others have rectified this, dealt with it, solved it. I didn't pay this much for a car that I now have to worry every time I take on the road.
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      06-28-2011, 07:49 AM   #2
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My dealer told me of the RFT problems and said "don't buy the car without insurance"
I replaced 8 tires on my Z4 in 18 months and so far none on my 535xi.
Your dealer should know better. I would take this up with the manager or else with BMW since they are now underwriting tire insurance (or at least were doing so when I got my 535).
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      06-28-2011, 09:21 AM   #3
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They check for impact by looking for rubber marks or scrapes on the rim where the side wall hit the rim when it compressed. They will also look on the inside of the tire where they will see abrasions or cuts where the rim contacted the inside of the tire. Believe me, they will find these telltale signs.

Call Goodyear Customer Relations and get a case number and the name of a Goodyear dealer that will cover you under the Goodyear road hazard warranty that comes with the vehicle. Some BMW dealers will honor the Goodyear warranty, most apparently will not. My dealer was "unaware" of the Goodyear warranty and was "willing" to sell me four summer tires for the price of three since he couldn't get a replacement Goodyear tire. A Goodyear dealer took care of me for the cost of balancing after I talked to Goodyear Customer Relations who were very willing to help.
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      06-28-2011, 10:44 AM   #4
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The sad truth is that BMW spec'd out a unique runflat all-season in a size with a sidewall that cannot stand up to US roads. By not including a spare they also left owners with few options. Worse yet, BMW has not owned up to the problem, insisting it's a Goodyear issue. It really sounds like a text book case of the bean counters winning out over the engineers. Owner frustrations with this issue are the single most discussed item on the Bimmerfest forum.

BMW is probably going to change tire makers for the 2012 model year. Hopefully, that will also mean a resolution for those of us with the LS2 all-season tire, such as free replacement. The only other viable option is to go to an all-season non-runflat tire and an inflator kit for emergencies. Several owners have gone that route and all have reported an improvement in both handling and ride.
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      06-28-2011, 10:57 AM   #5
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my car is currently at bmw for this issue, and since the goodyear runflats are on back order ive agreed to probably have them switch me to the michelins since they wont put one odd tire on the car...
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      06-28-2011, 11:08 AM   #6
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Michelin doesn't make a 245-40-19 run-flat all-season tire. You're either getting a performance/summer tire or you dealer is willing to switch you to a non-run flat tire. Make sure your dealer explains to you the downside to either of the above and what you'll need to do to adjust. Reports have been coming in from your area that dealers are not fully explaining what they are doing with customers.
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      06-28-2011, 12:34 PM   #7
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I just noticed the same bubling (for lack of a better word) on the outside of my front passenger car. I have never seen a tire do this before. I am taking it in on Thursday to have my battle with BMW. What a joke. There have been a couple times where I seem to hit a pothole just right where it sounds like the entire car is going to fall apart. It is so much more violent than the pothole should produce. I think it is more than just the tire, it feels like sometimes the suspension just gets hit a certain way. Anyway, this should not be our issue (cost) as clearly there are design/product issues with the tire/suspension combo.
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      06-29-2011, 05:35 AM   #8
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RFT or non-RFT replacements

Can I replace the front 2 tires with michelin non-RFTs but leave the GY RFT tires on in the rear of the car? Or will this disturb my BMW's performance and psyche?
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      06-29-2011, 09:12 AM   #9
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I know this is a stupid quesiton, but I have not taken delivery of my 5 yet. Is this issue limited to the X-drive cars? I ordered a RWD version with M-sport. I pick it up in SC in about three weeks. What tires could I expect, I have seen Michilen Primacy HPs in most of the pictures. Are those as troublesom as the Goodyears on the X models? I am thinking of switching to Non-RFT PSS at the first reasonable opportunity.
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      06-29-2011, 02:26 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gunship guy View Post
I know this is a stupid quesiton, but I have not taken delivery of my 5 yet. Is this issue limited to the X-drive cars? I ordered a RWD version with M-sport. I pick it up in SC in about three weeks. What tires could I expect, I have seen Michilen Primacy HPs in most of the pictures. Are those as troublesom as the Goodyears on the X models? I am thinking of switching to Non-RFT PSS at the first reasonable opportunity.
You're safe. Only xDrive with any sport package get the all season LS2 245/40-19 tires. At least in the USA.
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      06-29-2011, 02:29 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arthman View Post
Can I replace the front 2 tires with michelin non-RFTs but leave the GY RFT tires on in the rear of the car? Or will this disturb my BMW's performance and psyche?
Not advised.

Goodyear warranties these tires, if replacements are not available, Goodyear have been changing all four at their cost. Contact their Customer Assistance Center.

At least in my case Goodyear were very responsive to the situation and the dealer was no help at all.
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      06-29-2011, 05:07 PM   #12
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My tires are goodyear Excellence 19" on my 535i with sports package and no Xdrive. It is a Canadian car.
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      06-29-2011, 07:27 PM   #13
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Here is the warranty:

Good Year Run Flat Warranty.pdf

My M pack car came with Michelin Primacy as do all the ones I've seen here in the US. I've hit potholes and no bubbles or rim damage so far - as RFTs go these are great. I suggest you get replacements from GY under the warranty and once you have to pay for your first $400 run flat move to Michelin Pilot SS normal tires - this is my plan when the first Michelin Primacy fails.
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      08-01-2011, 09:15 PM   #14
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Big (very big) bubble on one tire sidewall. In my case - 535xi w/sport package.

Goodyear was no help (no inventory anywhere in the US, so go to your dealer cause I can't/won't help you) and conversely my dealer was very responsive. My CA got back to me the next day to tell me the same story that Goodyear did (no inventory of Goodyear Eagle LS2 Run Flats) however the dealer offered to replace all four Goodyear RFs with four new Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT in the same size at no charge. These Bridgestone Potenzas are like Goodyear - All Season RFT. Come with a 40K treadwear prorated warranty and a Platinum Pact Warranty (Replacement at no charge (excluding taxes and disposal fees) if your Bridgestone tire becomes unusable for any reason within the manufacturer's control for up to 3 years from date of purchase or 4 years from date of manufacture, whichever is to the owner's advantage. Certain restrictions and limitiations may apply). Got to call Bridgestone to find out just what this Platinum Pact warranty covers. These Potenza All Season RF are just being brought onto the US market.

Anybody had experience with these tires? I remember someone posting an article about Bridgestone being in the process of developing these tires.

Going into the dealer tomorrow to swap the tires. I bought this car from a "mega dealer" (46 dealerships and counting). I saved $6K combined with buying the new car and selling the old car compared to two rounds of hard bargaining with my local dealer (where I bought the '04 5 series I traded in). Any doubts about trading poor service for a lower cost have certainly been erased now. I'll take the extra 30' ride to the dealer for this kind of service.
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      08-01-2011, 10:19 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toneil44 View Post
Big (very big) bubble on one tire sidewall. In my case - 535xi w/sport package.

Goodyear was no help (no inventory anywhere in the US, so go to your dealer cause I can't/won't help you) and conversely my dealer was very responsive. My CA got back to me the next day to tell me the same story that Goodyear did (no inventory of Goodyear Eagle LS2 Run Flats) however the dealer offered to replace all four Goodyear RFs with four new Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT in the same size at no charge. These Bridgestone Potenzas are like Goodyear - All Season RFT. Come with a 40K treadwear prorated warranty and a Platinum Pact Warranty (Replacement at no charge (excluding taxes and disposal fees) if your Bridgestone tire becomes unusable for any reason within the manufacturer's control for up to 3 years from date of purchase or 4 years from date of manufacture, whichever is to the owner's advantage. Certain restrictions and limitiations may apply). Got to call Bridgestone to find out just what this Platinum Pact warranty covers. These Potenza All Season RF are just being brought onto the US market.

Anybody had experience with these tires? I remember someone posting an article about Bridgestone being in the process of developing these tires.

Going into the dealer tomorrow to swap the tires. I bought this car from a "mega dealer" (46 dealerships and counting). I saved $6K combined with buying the new car and selling the old car compared to two rounds of hard bargaining with my local dealer (where I bought the '04 5 series I traded in). Any doubts about trading poor service for a lower cost have certainly been erased now. I'll take the extra 30' ride to the dealer for this kind of service.
That's good to hear that the RE960AS is now available in a 245/40/19 RFT. The June Rondel Magazine had an article on the tire and they seemed to like it although they had limited testing opportunities. Neither Bridgestone nor Tirerack lists them in 19" sizes. Let us know if you really get them.
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      08-02-2011, 10:40 AM   #16
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At least you have options. I got a nail in my Michelin RFT performance tires and there was not a single tire available in Canada. There would have been a 4 day wait to have one sent in. The dealer got permission from BMW to strip a tire from a new car on the lot. Thankfully, I had the tire insurance. BMW had to step up to get me back on the road. Other than that, I have hit a few potholes, and recently, an expansion joint on a bridge was elevated by several inches and it felt like I was hit with a cannon ball. The tires remained in good shape.....sounds like I was very lucky!
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      08-02-2011, 12:40 PM   #17
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Radarguy, where did you see Bridgestone was going to start making this tire in a 245-40-19? I can only find the three sizes. Good news if true. Perhaps this is the tire BMW will be using on the 2012, thus the reason for the additional size.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
That's good to hear that the RE960AS is now available in a 245/40/19 RFT. The June Rondel Magazine had an article on the tire and they seemed to like it although they had limited testing opportunities. Neither Bridgestone nor Tirerack lists them in 19" sizes. Let us know if you really get them.
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      08-04-2011, 11:50 AM   #18
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Originally Posted by crmgr View Post
Radarguy, where did you see Bridgestone was going to start making this tire in a 245-40-19? I can only find the three sizes. Good news if true. Perhaps this is the tire BMW will be using on the 2012, thus the reason for the additional size.
toneil44 in post #14 made a comment that he was getting his 19 LS2s replaced with the same size Bridgestone RE960AS Pole RFTs at his BMW dealer on August 2. My question to him was (and still is) did they really replace them with the tires he was expecting.
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      08-04-2011, 03:01 PM   #19
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Well, sorry to dash anyone's hopes, but I contacted Bridgestone Corporate and talked to someone in their tecnology/new product department. The Re960AS run-flat is still not available in a 245-40-19. He said they will be rolling out additional sizes maybe this fall, but couldn't say whether it would include a 19" version or stop at 18". Told him a little of our problems and all he could say was "wow". Also told him there would be a market if Bridgestone could rollout a 19" version.

BMW dealers seem to be giving wrong information to their customers on replacement tires or worse replacing all-season run-flats with either non-runflat all season or summer/performance run-flats without fully explaining the additional problems.


Quote:
Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
toneil44 in post #14 made a comment that he was getting his 19 LS2s replaced with the same size Bridgestone RE960AS Pole RFTs at his BMW dealer on August 2. My question to him was (and still is) did they really replace them with the tires he was expecting.
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      08-04-2011, 04:35 PM   #20
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BMW dealers seem to be giving wrong information to their customers on replacement tires or worse replacing all-season run-flats with either non-runflat all season or summer/performance run-flats without fully explaining the additional problems.
Agreed.

I think come this winter (unless it's very mild), many who thought they were made whole by Goodyear or the dealer with a new set of RFT will discover that summer tires are not acceptable in cold weather.

When I had my LS2's replaced with Michelin PSS, another F10 owner was getting summer Bridgestone RFT - at the Goodyear store. He really didn't understand what he was getting. He was just happy to get his bubbled LS2's replaced.
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      08-16-2011, 11:01 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radarguy View Post
toneil44 in post #14 made a comment that he was getting his 19 LS2s replaced with the same size Bridgestone RE960AS Pole RFTs at his BMW dealer on August 2. My question to him was (and still is) did they really replace them with the tires he was expecting.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crmgr View Post
Well, sorry to dash anyone's hopes, but I contacted Bridgestone Corporate and talked to someone in their tecnology/new product department. The Re960AS run-flat is still not available in a 245-40-19. He said they will be rolling out additional sizes maybe this fall, but couldn't say whether it would include a 19" version or stop at 18". Told him a little of our problems and all he could say was "wow". Also told him there would be a market if Bridgestone could rollout a 19" version.

BMW dealers seem to be giving wrong information to their customers on replacement tires or worse replacing all-season run-flats with either non-runflat all season or summer/performance run-flats without fully explaining the additional problems.
Ah! If it were only that easy. Never seems to be easy w/ BMW.

I was going to wait to post a reply until the issue was resolved. Since forum members are interested in my post that I was going to get my LS2s replaced by Bridgestone Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT in the same 245/40R19 size (a true 1 for 1, all season RFT for all season RFT swap) I am sharing my status so far.

The dealer tells me no LS2s available whether you have tire insurance or not. I do not. We would expect the dealer to replace the LS2s w/ competitor's tires at no charge if you have tire insurance. What made me feel good (initially) was the dealer's willingness to do the same for me w/o tire insurance regardless of treadwear left on the tires. Goodyear confirms no inventory of LS2s anywhere in the country. Looks like the only inventory of LS2s anywhere in the world is at the Dingolfing plant being put on new 2011 BMWs (due to demand, there is a limited production of BMWs in the normal shutdown month of August). Who knows what will be put on the 2012s. BMW has obviously forced Goodyear (due to the sidewall bubbling issue and since the tire is sole sourced for the 535ix w/ Sport Pkg) to pay for 4 new tires from their competition and for BMW's labor to put them on.

The bottom line - It didn't happen. I did not get what I thought I was promised - another manufacturer's all season RFT in the same size. The dealer replaced my LS2s w/ Potenza RE050A RFT (which I found out later are summer tires) and my CA told me they are comparable to the LS2s!!! I see other dealers are giving out the same story.

Before I went to the dealer, I checked Bridgestone's website and verified w/ their Technical Service that their only line of all season RFT - Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT (that's a mouthful) are currently available only in 1-16" and 2-17" sizes. Definitely skeptical, after the dealer put on the Potenza RE050A RFT, I asked my CA, Are you sure these are all season tires? Yes, they are, was his reply.

The next day I am back on the phone to Bridgestone Tech Service who I get to spell out to me in an email, copy to my CA - that "Potenza RE050A RFT is a Max Performance Summer run-flat tire ... not intended to be driven in near-freezing temperatures, through snow or on ice...Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT - an all season performance line of run-flat tires from Bridgestone designed for many of today's popular RFT equipped vehicles is not yet available in the 245/40R19 size." See bottom of this post for the text of the email. Hard to read the email at least the way I uploaded the file.

On the phone, she gave me some interesting pieces of information which she wouldn't put it in writing:
1) Other than the Goodyear LS2, currently there is no other tire manufacturer in the world w/ an all season RFT in the 245/40R19 size.

2) The Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT mold in the 245/40R19 size has been approved by R&D but not approved to go into production. She talks possibly this fall.

I've got my CA to talk to the Service Mgr and then General Mgr. To be fair, there is no alternative right now. However, clearly they should not be passing off the 050A RFT as 1 for 1 replacement for the LS2 tire. The 050A RFT is a functional equivalent as long as it is never driven below 32 degrees F. That's not going to help me, living in New England. I've now got 4 new summer RFT so I'm good till October. After another week or so, if I don't get a reasonable response from my CA, I'll go after the Service Mgr and then General Mgr. BMW will never recommend non RFT for the F10, so I don't know what my dealer will do for me if the Potenza RE960AS Pole Position RFT is not available in the 245/40R19 size. That's his problem. If that happens, I'll probably go to a Goodyear dealer and get them to spring for non RFT and ask BMW for their tire mobility kit and for BMW Assist to respond to non RFT emergency flat tire calls. That should be a fun discussion! By the way, the ride comfort w/ the 050A tires is better than the LS2s, no sidewall bubbles (it's only been two weeks), but hitting potholes (I try to, but it's impossible to completely avoid them) still feels like I'm driving a tank (must be a limitation of the RFT).

This thread was originally in the General F10 Forum. Now it is buried in one of the sub forums, really difficult to find on the main index page.
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      08-17-2011, 11:49 AM   #22
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Nice write-up. Unfortunetly, this is the BS dealers have been telling their customers for months. It's going to hit the fan this winter when all of the cars where dealers have installed summer/performance run-flats start sliding off the road. We know what's going on because we read the forums. The average Joe however, doesn't have a clue and is taking the word of his dealer. Can't believe that BMW will continue to put the LS2 on the 2012 models and still continue to not ensure that Goodyear keeps a supply of replacements for US dealers. I mean come on, this problem has been going on since last fall.

Hopefully, Bridgestone will come up with our size and keep a supply in stock at their retail stores and outlets such as TireRack. So far I've had good luck with the LS2 and actully like the tire. I will however, without hesitation swap them out for either the Conti DWS or Michelin A/S Plus and throw an inflator kit in the trunk at the first failure if a suitabe all-season replacement run-flat is not available within 24-48 hours.


[QUOTE=toneil44;10240586]Ah! If it were only that easy. Never seems to be easy w/ BMW.
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