[Litos]

2007 335i - A6 - Build Date of February 2007

Mods: ETS, DCI and 93 Octane

ok guys, i am a man of my word. Cobb FINALLY released their 07 software.

i have been saying for about 3 months now that i am a big Cobb supporter EVEN THOUGH i was currently running the JB4. i read, AND POSTED, in 2 or 3 of the biggest "JB4/Procede/Cobb" related threads over the last month and tried to absorb as much info as possible.

i'm not going to talk down on JB4 for one second - it was a great tune while i had it and made me happy. at only 13.5psi it made some good power.

so, i got to Austin today after leaving work early

got to Cobb's facility and it was impressive - nice and clean and everyone looked as if they were having a great time. friendly environment with smiling faces all around.

got strapped on the dyno (i said "strapped on") and away we went.

1st set of pulls were JB4 Map 1 on 13.5-14psi: average of 311whp and 350wtq
2nd set of pulls were JB4 Map 0 on stock boost: average of 251whp and 290wtq
3rd set of pulls were Cobb Stage 1 on 16-17psi: average of 326whp and 390wtq

my notes:

1) the JB4, on only 13.5psi, is still rather impressive
2) the a/f ratio of the JB4 scared the SHIT out of me when i first saw it
3) installation of the Cobb is a piece of cake
4) the car maintained the same smooth, linear boost, but it comes on a bit more freely, but it DOESN'T spike up at normal throttle. as like the JB4, part throttle/daily driving is perfect
5) Cobb is a bit behind the curve as far as Maps, but i won't be hard on them because it's only been out for a couple months
6) i strongly believe JB4 Map 2 would have been more competetive on the dyno because as of right now, it looks like a wash for the Cobb, which it should be seeing as it's running 3psi more.
7) when i saw the increased torque and the subsequent a/f i made up my mind on the spot - 17psi with 12.5 a/f across the board makes my peepee hard
8) i have "logs", but they are in an excel spreadsheet and don't have software to convert (someone PM me their email address if they wanna help out)
9) Cobb's handheld AP interface is MONEY !!!! you can read/delete codes, log from the AP, it shows real time parameters and the ease of install/uninstall is the best of all time - of ALL TIME /Kanye
10) the a/f combined with the massive torque increase and the ease of installation is what sold me. to me, that's worth the extra $400.

sorry for the "picture" graphs but i didn't get the screen shots emailed to me - just the logs.

[Willizm]

Is that 16-17psi sustained boost or a spike? Impressive numbers, but something seems odd as my Cobb tune hovers around 12-13psi.

[Litos]

1521-0.34
1529-0.46
1550-0.58
1571-0.7
1587-0.85
1588-1.01
1585-1.13
1584-1.28
1583-1.44
1596-1.52
1630-1.76
16521.87
1664-2.07
1679-2.19
1699-2.34
1728-2.54
1743-2.74
1759-2.89
1787-3.05
1810-3.25
1832-3.44
1848-3.64
1869-3.83
1900-4.11
1926-4.38
1945-4.58
1974-4.86
1995-5.17
2023-5.44
2048-5.76
2075-6.11
2090-6.35
2113-6.62
2139-6.9
2164-7.25
2182-7.53
2195-7.84
2227-8.23
2254-8.55
2276-8.98
2317-9.49
2341-9.92
2369-10.39
2389-11.06
2422-11.65
2465-12.24
2495-12.71
2523-13.02
2558-13.37
2597-13.73
2621-14.16
2665-14.47
2709-14.87
2743-15.14
2776-15.42
2813-15.77
2843-16.08
2877-16.12
2911-16.12
2951-15.89
2970-15.57
3008-15.34
3059-15.26
3073-15.41
3130-15.49
3161-15.49
3193-15.18
3221-15.14
3276-15.37
3297-15.49
3339-15.45
3363-15.53
3404-15.57
3427-15.61
3451-15.61
3480-15.69
3522-15.85
3536-15.96
3579-16.16
3593-16.51
3626-16.75
3650-17.02
3674-17.02
3717-17.14
3757-17.06
3778-16.87
3822-16.94
3869-17.06
3909-17.14
3952-17.1
3984-17.22
4019-17.1
4045-16.79
4091-16.36
4121-16.04
4148-15.85
4159-15.92
4225-16.16
4258-16.08
4301-16.16
4349-16.04
4382-16.04
4393-16.04
4433-16.08
4472-16.04
4511-16.2
4541-16.24
4567-16.2
4606-16.2
4639-16.24
4677-16.24
4709-16.24
4731-16.24
4759-16.2
4792-16.2
4831-16.32
4859-16.28
4896-16.28
4913-16.24
4942-16.16
4964-16.24
4984-16.27
5011-16.08
5049-16.16
5069--6.04
5087-16
5113-15.8
5163-15.92
5187-15.88
5223-15.84
5239-15.76
5277-15.69
5316-15.65
5335-15.57
5365-15.53
5392-15.45
5427-15.49
5434-15.29
5470-15.37
5485-15.22
5515-15.18
5533-15.37
5555-15.29
5588-15.06
5613-15.02
5648-15.18
5665-14.98
5688-14.94
5725-15.06
5740-14.86
5764-14.82
5807-14.98
5835-14.78
5850-14.94
5878-14.74
5916-14.82
5933-14.59
5950-14.7
5982-14.55
5996-14.39
6017-14.31
6033-14.23
6061-14.35
6075-14.27
6094-14.15
6112-14.07
6135-14.07
6140-14.15
6156-14.07
6178-14.07
6211-13.92
6234-13.96
6248-13.84
6280-13.8
6299-13.96
6325-13.76
6362-13.88
6377-13.68
6403-13.72
6434-13.84
6447-13.64
6468-13.64
6487-13.76
6505-13.56
6527-13.52
6563-13.52
6586-13.72
6590-13.56
6627-13.48
6641-13.52
6654-13.41
6684-13.33
6714-13.52
6717-13.29
6744-13.41
6772-13.33
6841-13.29
6879-13.37
6909-13.21
6933-13.13
6941-13.37

[Litos]

looks like it hit 17 from 3600-4000.

but i was impressed how it held 13 at redline. wowzers.......

[dlbrooks18]

What octane were you running?

[Litos]

93 octane

[OpenFlash]

Perhaps the conservative 12psi Cobb tune becomes a very aggressive 15-16psi tune when run on the dyno due to the higher-then-normal intake temps that load bearing dynos can easily induce. I'm thinking that you probably want to compare how the two tunes run on the street when intake temps are more realistic. Most non-flash tunes purposely drop boost when IAT get uncomfortably high. In this case here, you end up comparing one tune when it is at it's most conservative with another when it is at its most aggressive.

[momstmg78]

i dynoed mine today on cobb 93 got 328 hp / 360 ft lb on dynojet. peak boost on mine was 16.33 at 4k rpm then tapered to 11.8 at 6.8k rpm. temp= 87 humid = 44%. afr stayed around mid to low 12's.

[cn555ic]

I always thought Cobb stage 1 was conservative and only boosting around 12-13...So what your saying is with a heat soaked engine if that was the case it would increase boost? Is that what Alan I problem was due to with the ignition glow...I am a bit confused...There is no safety as for capping the boost pressure as IAT goes up?

[Litos]

uuuughgh, it was freaking hot in Austin today too.

freakin sucks.

AIT's were 115 and went up to 135 at redline.

[Litos]

p.s.
the dyno in Cobb's Austin facility is a Mustang Dyno.

[momstmg78]

my ait's started at 109 before first pull and went up to 126 by third pull

[momstmg78]

i noticed on first pull ignition timing was at around 9.xx - 6.8k rpm - ait 111 degrees but on second pull timing went down to 7.xx - 6.8k rpm - ait 122 degrees. so i guess the hotter the iat, less timing advance

[Litos]

and here's the car.........

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Perhaps the conservative 12psi Cobb tune becomes a very aggressive 15-16psi tune when run on the dyno due to the higher-then-normal intake temps that load bearing dynos can easily induce. I'm thinking that you probably want to compare how the two tunes run on the street when intake temps are more realistic. Most non-flash tunes purposely drop boost when IAT get uncomfortably high. In this case here, you end up comparing one tune when it is at it's most conservative with another when it is at its most aggressive.

I think it's more the fact the Cobb AP targets load rather than boost levels. If it takes 16-17 psi to hit the specified load target at x RPM, so be it. This is very similar to the older JB3 boost targeting which worked off a multiplier algorithm instead of PID based boost control. This same phenomenon occurred with JB3, as I remember the countless users freaking out when they were boosting 2-3 psi lower in colder weather vs hot weather.

Especially at such high IATs, the amount of oxygen being fed into the manifold is significantly lower than say someone like me who still sees 40-50 degree IATs in our cold weather. I would imagine the Cobb AP with an OTS stage 1 would have my car targeting significantly lower boost than the OP.

[acdHQK713K]

Ets = Ets Fmic?

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

I think it's more the fact the Cobb AP targets load rather than boost levels. If it takes 16-17 psi to hit the specified load target at x RPM, so be it. This is very similar to the older JB3 boost targeting which worked off a multiplier algorithm instead of PID based boost control. This same phenomenon occurred with JB3, as I remember the countless users freaking out when they were boosting 2-3 psi lower in colder weather vs hot weather.

Especially at such high IATs, the amount of oxygen being fed into the manifold is significantly lower than say someone like me who still sees 40-50 degree IATs in our cold weather. I would imagine the Cobb AP with an OTS stage 1 would have my car targeting significantly lower boost than the OP.

Yes, that is what I was describing not so elegantly. The factory boost control algorithms target a given airflow/load. Not necessary the ideal (for max power) boost pressures given current conditions.

shiv

[momstmg78]

i would assume so

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Yes, that is what I was describing not so elegantly. The factory boost control algorithms target a given airflow/load. Not necessary the ideal (for max power) boost pressures given current conditions.

shiv

On that note, the Procede needs some finer-tuned IAT boost compensation. 17psi in 30 degree temps (regardless of IAT) makes for some ugly ignition logs, even on meth. I am finding myself manually dropping boost in colder temps vs hotter temps to maintain a maxed out stock curve without inducing offset. You can get away with 19 psi on 93+meth with maxed out timing in warm enough temps.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

On that note, the Procede needs some finer-tuned IAT boost compensation. 17psi in 30 degree temps (regardless of IAT) makes for some ugly ignition logs, even on meth. I am finding myself manually dropping boost in colder temps vs hotter temps to maintain a maxed out stock curve without inducing offset. You can get away with 19 psi on 93+meth with maxed out timing in warm enough temps.

17-19psi is a bit beyond the scope of what we recommend running on pump gas. Even with meth. But i understand that some will want to run these pressures. Before too long, we will re-enable autotuning with the DIC beta maps. So you will be able to just let it adjust boost/timing by itself. Until then, some user discretion is required.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

17-19psi is a bit beyond the scope of what we recommend running on pump gas. Even with meth. But i understand that some will want to run these pressures. Before too long, we will re-enable autotuning with the DIC beta maps. So you will be able to just let it adjust boost/timing by itself. Until then, some user discretion is required.

Depends on the ambient temps; 19 psi in frigid temps is superknock waiting to happen.

[Rob@Cobb]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

Perhaps the conservative 12psi Cobb tune becomes a very aggressive 15-16psi tune when run on the dyno due to the higher-then-normal intake temps that load bearing dynos can easily induce. I'm thinking that you probably want to compare how the two tunes run on the street when intake temps are more realistic. Most non-flash tunes purposely drop boost when IAT get uncomfortably high. In this case here, you end up comparing one tune when it is at it's most conservative with another when it is at its most aggressive.

Our dyno loads very similarly to the street and we have a 36k CFM fan bringing fresh air from outside capable of keeping up at the speeds we are dynoing. If you are suggesting the car will run differently on the street vs. our dyno, I can assure you that is not the case.

Cheers,
Rob