[Trevor .:R]

Hey guys i know people get trolled for usually asking these questions but i am going to be getting into a 335i and i have done research on a few mods like procede and Jb3-4 and had a few questions and was interested on if anyone had feedback for the certain amount of whp i wanted to achieve. Anyways i am looking for the range of 350-375whp to put the subby stage 2s asleep This is what i had in mind :

-Jb4 with Dual cone intakes, i basically live 2 mins away from simi and thought since burger motorsports is right there i would support them and run there flash.
-Downpipe, was thinking of either RR or AR for a downpipe any suggestions not to good with this aspect
-Diverter valve/BOV was thinking of either Hks, Forge....
-Catback Exhaust AMS, Eisenmann...
-Methanol Injection kit, Devils own, Snow performance...
-Sport Springs H&R, Eibach ...
-Rear Sway Bar
-Torque Mounts
-Short Shift Kit
-VMR 19s

I hope this seems like a pretty solid build, have yet to drive an steptronic version and this car will be my daily driver, was thinking of the manual for the fun but heard the steptronic shifts and downshifts amazingly. Let me know on some feedback about these ideas and feel free to let me know of any mods you prefer and would not prefer as i continue to research more and more on the forums!

BTW i will have a 4-5k budget for tuning and other modifications

[Beemw335]

N54 or n55??
If its n54, you could get 350+whp(even more) with just a tune and some dowpipes!

[Dmacc]

don't go with riss racing for any products. their company is no longer a company

[themyst]

IMO, with bolt-ons get the cheapest you can find. The cheap eBay downpipes work perfectly fine, and there is a DIY intercooler for less than $400 that equals or outperforms the expensive name-brand units.

If you have a manual running high boost (over 16 psi), be wary of the shift bog. It is still an issue that manifests in both piggybacks today.

Skip the Short Shift Kit. They all increase shift effort for virtually no benefit. I had one on my 6MT 135i and when I went back to the stock shifter it was the best thing I ever did. Personal preference of course.

In regards to upgrading the charge pipe or BOV/DVs, I run upwards of 19 psi on the stock charge pipe and DVs without any issue. I've run Forge DVs before on the stock pipe, and after one of the pistons in the DV got stuck, I decided the stockers are the best fit.

With the meth kit, I definitely recommend doing it right and getting the Snow Performance or Aquamist kits. Do NOT skimp on the meth flow sensor. Go with a single M10/CM10 nozzle or dual M5/CM5s. I prefer the simplicity of a single nozzle personally.

Having both owned the 6MT and 6AT, I say for drag racing or highway rolls, go with the 6AT. The shorter gearing, faster shifts, the ability to launch in 2nd gear and the amount of boost it holds through the shift make it far superior to a 6MT. If you'll be taking it on a road course, you simply cannot beat the control of a 6MT. And as I said before, 6MTs have that annoying bog issue to deal with as well, especially since you're going piggyback.

By the way, with your shopping list, you will make an easy 420-430 whp if not more. Good luck.

[Trevor .:R]

I was told vishnu procede i believe have a good tune, which is around 695 for it. And also i heard of this golf tee mod i was told it is a lot like the flapper mod which i had for the R32 and i loved the sound not sure how it would sound with downpipe and what not. Do not want that really high pitched sound if you know what i mean a nice deep tone with a little highs is nice. Would you rather run charge pipe over bov? And wow 430-450 whp would be nice !

Also found out cobb has a nice tune let me know thoughts on that as well!

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Trevor .:R

I was told vishnu procede i believe have a good tune, which is around 695 for it. And also i heard of this golf tee mod i was told it is a lot like the flapper mod which i had for the R32 and i loved the sound not sure how it would sound with downpipe and what not. Do not want that really high pitched sound if you know what i mean a nice deep tone with a little highs is nice. Would you rather run charge pipe over bov? And wow 430-450 whp would be nice !

If you're running meth, your choice of piggyback becomes a bit less relevant, however if you are deciding on the Procede, skip the $695 enthusiast version and get the $895 professional version or find one used. The enthusiast version lacks methanol integration which you will undoubtedly need. You will eventually have to pay $50 to add-on additional features on the $695 version, so might as well just skip it all and get the full version.

the golf tee mod makes your car sound a bit more gurgly (raspy?) I don't have it done, nor do I care for the sound. I have full bolt-ons + meth on stock exhaust. As a daily driver, the drone that comes with a fully catless exhaust would drive me insane. Been there, done that on my 350z. Never again.

I don't understand your charge pipe question. You can run a charge pipe designed for a BOV, or one that is designed for DVs.

With all of the bolt-ons you listed with meth, you should be a shade under 420whp at 17 psi. At the higher boost levels, you can touch 450whp; however you will need to make sure you have enough fuel to support extremely high boost (19-20 psi).

[Trevor .:R]

Well this is what i want to be running, results seem good:

Cobb Stage 1 / Procede tune ( If i am not mistaken cobb is not a piggyback? )
Stett Charge pipe and intake
AR 3" Downpipe
Remus Race Exhaust / AMS exhaust Both sound angry =D
Snow Performance Stage 2 Methanol Kit
Rear Sways H&R
Springs H&R
Engine mounts? still searching.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by Trevor .:R

Well this is what i want to be running, results seem good:

Cobb Stage 1 / Procede tune ( If i am not mistaken cobb is not a piggyback? )
Stett Charge pipe and intake
AR 3" Downpipe
Remus Race Exhaust / AMS exhaust Both sound angry =D
Snow Performance Stage 2 Methanol Kit
Rear Sways H&R
Springs H&R
Engine mounts? still searching.

Cobb is a flash tune. It will arguably be the best solution for this car once stage 2 and ATR (custom tuning) software come out.

Stett makes intakes? Just get a BMS DCI and call it a day. Best bang for the buck.

I am not sure if the Snow Stage 2 includes the SnowPerformance SafeInjection failsafe, but if it doesn't, GET IT. You can skip all the other bells and whistles.

Why do you need upgraded engine mounts? I don't even think they make them. There are guys pushing north of 500whp on upgraded turbos on the stock engine mounts without issue. Now the halfshafts and clutches, that's another story

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Trevor .:R

Well this is what i want to be running, results seem good:

Cobb Stage 1 / Procede tune ( If i am not mistaken cobb is not a piggyback? )
Stett Charge pipe and intake
AR 3" Downpipe
Remus Race Exhaust / AMS exhaust Both sound angry =D
Snow Performance Stage 2 Methanol Kit
Rear Sways H&R
Springs H&R
Engine mounts? still searching.

If you are going to run a methanol kit, a reflash (Cobb, Giac, etc,.) isn't going to be the best choice for most goals.

shiv

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

If you are going to run a methanol kit, a reflash (Cobb, Giac, etc,.) isn't going to be the best choice for most goals.

shiv

incorrect, failsafes can be set up the same way and progressive control is useless on this car.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

If you are going to run a methanol kit, a reflash (Cobb, Giac, etc,.) isn't going to be the best choice for most goals.

shiv

I was actually doing research on failsafe options for flash tunes such as COBB and GIAC.

SnowPerformance actually sells a boost bypass solenoid which is connected to the 5V output of a failsafe, fine tuned by the trigger delay as necessary. If meth is above the set threshold, it won't interfere. If meth flow is insufficient, my guess is the car will throw a nasty underboost code due to the bypass solenoid doing its thing. I would say that is sufficient as a failsafe for methanol injection.

The only issue I'd be concerned about, albeit a minor one, is the fact a flash tune will not account for those split seconds methanol is not flowing.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

I was actually doing research on failsafe options for flash tunes such as COBB and GIAC.

SnowPerformance actually sells a boost bypass solenoid which is connected to the 5V output of a failsafe, fine tuned by the trigger delay as necessary. If meth is above the set threshold, it won't interfere. If meth flow is insufficient, my guess is the car will throw a nasty underboost code due to the bypass solenoid doing its thing. I would say that is sufficient as a failsafe for methanol injection.

The only issue I'd be concerned about, albeit a minor one, is the fact a flash tune will not account for those split seconds methanol is not flowing.

The disadvantage of a flash "controlled" meth system is that it cannot run full advance when meth is flowing and standard advance when meth isn't flowing. You will either have to make a choice on what max advance set points you want and live with it. One choice results in less power. The other in less safety against knock when meth isn't flowing. The boost reduction via failsafe solenoid is a far cry from integrating it into the tune's boost control logic. IMHO, a failsafe should be based upon when meth is flowing, not when it isn't.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The disadvantage of a flash "controlled" meth system is that it cannot run full advance when meth is flowing and standard advance when meth isn't flowing. You will either have to make a choice on what max advance set points you want and live with it. One choice results in less power. The other in less safety against knock when meth isn't flowing. The boost reduction via failsafe solenoid is a far cry from integrating it into the tune's boost control logic. IMHO, a failsafe should be based upon when meth is flowing, not when it isn't.

Actually you simply make two maps and run a meth map or a pump map. If the meth fails, boost is bleed and you know you have a problem. Works like a charm actually.

With your current system there is way to much of a delay after shifts sometimes for mt cars, despite timing and injection correction doing nothing different.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

The disadvantage of a flash "controlled" meth system is that it cannot run full advance when meth is flowing and standard advance when meth isn't flowing. You will either have to make a choice on what max advance set points you want and live with it. One choice results in less power. The other in less safety against knock when meth isn't flowing. The boost reduction via failsafe solenoid is a far cry from integrating it into the tune's boost control logic. IMHO, a failsafe should be based upon when meth is flowing, not when it isn't.

With a boost bypass solenoid, you won't be able to get out of vacuum if meth isn't flowing above the trigger point.

[OpenFlash]

I understand that there is always a work around for any limitation. Mechanically restricting or enabling the tune's boost control system based upon meth control electronic feedback is less desirable unless you prefer a non-integrated solution. But if you are looking for an integrated solution where the tune is controlling the methanol, monitoring the meth flow, and adjusting boost, fuel and timing accordingly, a reflash won't do. There are some advantages to reflashes. But integrated control of supplementary fuel systems isn't one of them.

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I understand that there is always a work around for any limitation. Mechanically restricting or enabling the tune's boost control system based upon meth control electronic feedback is less desirable unless you prefer a non-integrated solution. But if you are looking for an integrated solution where the tune is controlling the methanol, monitoring the meth flow, and adjusting boost, fuel and timing accordingly, a reflash won't do. There are some advantages to reflashes. But integrated control of supplementary fuel systems isn't one of them.

Fair enough, but the idea is a properly maintained meth kit won't ever need or have to trigger the failsafes in place.

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I understand that there is always a work around for any limitation. Mechanically restricting or enabling the tune's boost control system based upon meth control electronic feedback is less desirable unless you prefer a non-integrated solution. But if you are looking for an integrated solution where the tune is controlling the methanol, monitoring the meth flow, and adjusting boost, fuel and timing accordingly, a reflash won't do. There are some advantages to reflashes. But integrated control of supplementary fuel systems isn't one of them.

Tune is controlling the methanol? Ok, I will give that, but a flash does not need this.

Monitoring meth flow? Once again, in its current form it does not do this. Flash users can buy add ons from companies to do this.

Adjusting boost? Flashes adjust boost as well, you tune for meth

Controlling fuel? lol, the stock ecu does that

Controlling timing? Actually you run stock timing on meth, so once again the stock ecu does the work.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by Clap135

Tune is controlling the methanol? Ok, I will give that, but a flash does not need this.

Monitoring meth flow? Once again, in its current form it does not do this. Flash users can buy add ons from companies to do this.

Adjusting boost? Flashes adjust boost as well, you tune for meth

Controlling fuel? lol, the stock ecu does that

Controlling timing? Actually you run stock timing on meth, so once again the stock ecu does the work.

I'm not sure i understand your comments. Compared to a conventional pump gas tune, the ideal methanol tune runs 2-3psi more boost, higher fuel pressure to compensate for increased boost, and 3-5 more ignition advance at WOT. If you are okay with manually switching maps on those days when you don't activate your meth kit, that's fine. You're not giving up any performance.

And as mentioned before, you can implement failsafes in any system. But were they differ from other approaches is on how well the failsafes are integrated into the engine management system as opposed to the methanol controller. The latter of which has little idea of what your engine is doing. Other than if boost pressure is above or below the hobbs switch threshold in many cases.

Shiv

[themyst]

To my understanding, how progressive meth works on either piggyback is if meth is flowing above the injection mode inputted, it transitions to a higher boost map.

e.g. JB4 if meth is =/>X, Y lbs of boost is added.

Procede, if meth is =/>X, switches to map 2. If meth flow is reduced, the Procede targets boost somewhere in between map 1 and 2. I don't think there is any correlation with fuel pressure when it transitions between the two maps, is there?

I don't like the idea of tuning for meth personally, but with a mechanical bypass with failsafe, it is possible to run it safely without issue. As I stated before, the whole point of a failsafe is to save you from failure, not having it intervene constantly.

BTW Shiv, my car's been running lovely for the first time in months. I'm saving this map and firmware on a flash drive in case my car throws a titty attack on newer firmware updates

[Clap135]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

I'm not sure i understand your comments. Compared to a conventional pump gas tune, the ideal methanol tune runs 2-3psi more boost, higher fuel pressure to compensate for increased boost, and 3-5 more ignition advance at WOT. If you are okay with manually switching maps on those days when you don't activate your meth kit, that's fine. You're not giving up any performance.

And as mentioned before, you can implement failsafes in any system. But were they differ from other approaches is on how well the failsafes are integrated into the engine management system as opposed to the methanol controller. The latter of which has little idea of what your engine is doing. Other than if boost pressure is above or below the hobbs switch threshold in many cases.

Shiv

Like I said, with a flash, you set fuel targets, ecu does what it does to hit those targets, so changing fuel pressure and wideband bias is useless and not need on a flash. You can also log accurate readings, not calculated guess which are not very accurate.

As for running 2-3 more psi, well yea, you dial in a map that runs whatever boost you want.

As for dialing in more timing, same thing applies, instead of worrying about misfire and offset limatations, you simply rewrite the timing tables in that map.


As far as the failsafes, you mean the way your system has worked since you released it? lol. As for the new up coming system. Anyone who wishes to have that control, can simply buy the hit directly from HFS and call it a day by running the system as it was intended....of injector cycle.

[OpenFlash]

Originally Posted by themyst

To my understanding, how progressive meth works on either piggyback is if meth is flowing above the injection mode inputted, it transitions to a higher boost map.

e.g. JB4 if meth is =/>X, Y lbs of boost is added.

Procede, if meth is =/>X, switches to map 2. If meth flow is reduced, the Procede targets boost somewhere in between map 1 and 2. I don't think there is any correlation with fuel pressure when it transitions between the two maps, is there?

I don't like the idea of tuning for meth, but with a mechanical bypass with failsafe, it is possible to run it safely. Perhaps not quite as elegant as the two piggybacks.

With the current DIC maps, fuel pressure mapping is based primarily upon boost pressure above stock. The idea was to provide a fuel pressure compensation for the opposing cylinder pressure caused by boost pressure increases. So as the Procede transitions between low boost and high boost, you will see changes to fuel rail pressure. The only constraint is the fuel system itself (ie, is it able to support the desired pressure target).

shiv

[themyst]

Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu

With the current DIC maps, fuel pressure mapping is based primarily upon boost pressure above stock. The idea was to provide a fuel pressure compensation for the opposing cylinder pressure caused by boost pressure increases. So as the Procede transitions between low boost and high boost, you will see changes to fuel rail pressure. The only constraint is the fuel system itself (ie, is it able to support the desired pressure target).

shiv

So you're saying if I log fuel pressure, I will see the duty cycle exceed 4V on the DIC firmware with progressive meth transitioning maps?