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2010 2011 BMW 5 Series Forum F10 F10 Technical Topics Wheels / Tires / Suspension / Brakes Tyres need replacing at 12780 miles
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      01-25-2011, 06:41 AM   #1
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Tyres need replacing at 12780 miles

Hi Im running 275 / 30 /R20 Y rated on all four corners. Just had notice from the dealer that the rear tyres need to be replaced. Down to 2mm on both..

They have quoted £888 inc vat and fitting...

I can get the same tyres at a local tyre shop for 300+ vat (360 each).. so a saving to be had. but here are my questions:

1. Should i move to non run flats? I hate the grip level I have with this car at the moment.. it's so unsure and nowhere near as good as my E60 was.

2. If I go to non run flats, do I need to change all four corners?

Extra info....
Just got a quote on Continental contact 2 (i think) at £170+vat per corner. These are non run flats.. any one have any comments on this tyre with relation to grip etc?

roy

Last edited by uktivo; 01-25-2011 at 07:10 AM.. Reason: more info
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      01-25-2011, 07:27 AM   #2
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While I don't own an F10 (yet) I'd certainly consider non RFTs. My only concern would be that the suspension was designed with RFTs in mind. So might non RFTs possibly compromise something? I've always wondered.

If you do, do not mix different brands of tires (and non RFTs with RFTs) each tire design has its own dynamic and you can run into issues if you mix tread patterns.

btw, I had Contis on my AMG and disliked them. I swapped them out for PS2s and it was a big difference especially with sharper turn in.
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      01-25-2011, 07:33 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Hi Im running 275 / 30 /R20 Y rated on all four corners. Just had notice from the dealer that the rear tyres need to be replaced. Down to 2mm on both..

They have quoted £888 inc vat and fitting...

I can get the same tyres at a local tyre shop for 300+ vat (360 each).. so a saving to be had. but here are my questions:

1. Should i move to non run flats? I hate the grip level I have with this car at the moment.. it's so unsure and nowhere near as good as my E60 was.

2. If I go to non run flats, do I need to change all four corners?

Extra info....
Just got a quote on Continental contact 2 (i think) at £170+vat per corner. These are non run flats.. any one have any comments on this tyre with relation to grip etc?

roy
If you go with non-RFTs then you definitely need to change all 4 corners, otherwise you run the risk of seriously affecting stability and the effective action of the DSC systems.

I'm not sure there's an awful lot of experience with non-RFTs on F10s as yet....

I've had Conti Sport Contact 2 tyres in the past, and found them to be great in the dry and wet.

It's not many miles to do and need a set of rears... do you run in Sport+ mode a lot so it lets the rears slide a little and wear quickly?
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      01-25-2011, 07:36 AM   #4
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I'm told that Vredesteins are very good, £201.50 each including p&p here:
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.p...110&sowigan=So
As a matter of great personal interest, does your car have adaptive drive/variable damper control and how do you find the steering?
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      01-25-2011, 08:08 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
I'm told that Vredesteins are very good, £201.50 each including p&p here:
http://ssl.delti.com/cgi-bin/rshop.p...110&sowigan=So
As a matter of great personal interest, does your car have adaptive drive/variable damper control and how do you find the steering?

Yes my car does have the adaptive drive but not VDC..
Honestly? I find the steering awful.. I'm not one for posting negative remarks, but I won't be holding onto this car for very long.. just not impressed with the steering feel or grip level.
I've driven MANY BMW's, 320, 330. X5. X3, X6, M5 and two other 5 series. My last E60 was absolutely fantastic to drive. The steering was precise and feedback was marvellous. I can see what they have aimed for with the F10, but in my opinion, I think they have damaged the ultimate driving machine for the worse.
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      01-25-2011, 08:12 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanflux View Post
If you go with non-RFTs then you definitely need to change all 4 corners, otherwise you run the risk of seriously affecting stability and the effective action of the DSC systems.

I'm not sure there's an awful lot of experience with non-RFTs on F10s as yet....

I've had Conti Sport Contact 2 tyres in the past, and found them to be great in the dry and wet.

It's not many miles to do and need a set of rears... do you run in Sport+ mode a lot so it lets the rears slide a little and wear quickly?
Nope, I drive quite sedately.. not sure why the wear is so high..
I've gone for 4 x conti sportcontact 2.. non run flats. The steering can't be any worse than it already is so I'm happy to take the gamble...
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      01-25-2011, 08:33 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Yes my car does have the adaptive drive but not VDC..
Honestly? I find the steering awful.. I'm not one for posting negative remarks, but I won't be holding onto this car for very long.. just not impressed with the steering feel or grip level.
Not trying to be clever here, but if you have Adaptive Drive, you have VDC as a part of AD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Nope, I drive quite sedately.. not sure why the wear is so high..
I've gone for 4 x conti sportcontact 2.. non run flats. The steering can't be any worse than it already is so I'm happy to take the gamble...
I'm sure the RFTs are still running very soft compounds, to try and get a bit of grip. Will be interesting to see what mileage others get from their tyres. Not too positive I imagine.

Now your decision to go non run-flat...

Will be interested to see if the steering feels better with them fitted. Something I'm very interested to know.

HighlandPete
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      01-25-2011, 08:49 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Not trying to be clever here, but if you have Adaptive Drive, you have VDC as a part of AD.



I'm sure the RFTs are still running very soft compounds, to try and get a bit of grip. Will be interesting to see what mileage others get from their tyres. Not too positive I imagine.

Now your decision to go non run-flat...

Will be interested to see if the steering feels better with them fitted. Something I'm very interested to know.

HighlandPete
Sorry, didn't realise about the VDC..

I will post about my non run flat experience after a few days of use...
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      01-25-2011, 09:15 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Yes my car does have the adaptive drive but not VDC..
Honestly? I find the steering awful.. I'm not one for posting negative remarks, but I won't be holding onto this car for very long.. just not impressed with the steering feel or grip level.
I've driven MANY BMW's, 320, 330. X5. X3, X6, M5 and two other 5 series. My last E60 was absolutely fantastic to drive. The steering was precise and feedback was marvellous. I can see what they have aimed for with the F10, but in my opinion, I think they have damaged the ultimate driving machine for the worse.
This is getting very interesting and I'll be very keen to hear whether or not you note any improvement in the steering on the non-runflats.
As Highland Pete says, if you have AD, that automatically includes VDC as part of the package.
There's not a vast difference between our engines and apart from the fact that you have 20" wheels, we have pretty much the same car and we're both driving on UK roads.
Additionally your tone is noticeably measured and lacking in rhetoric, which makes me all the more interested in your opinion.
Please keep us all updated - thanks.
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      01-25-2011, 11:42 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
This is getting very interesting and I'll be very keen to hear whether or not you note any improvement in the steering on the non-runflats.
As Highland Pete says, if you have AD, that automatically includes VDC as part of the package.
There's not a vast difference between our engines and apart from the fact that you have 20" wheels, we have pretty much the same car and we're both driving on UK roads.
Additionally your tone is noticeably measured and lacking in rhetoric, which makes me all the more interested in your opinion.
Please keep us all updated - thanks.
+1 Please keep us updated
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      01-25-2011, 01:42 PM   #11
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I concur that you should try to match all four corners if at all possible.

I replaced the run-flats with conventional tires on my E92 and immediately noticed an increase in comfort and decrease in noise. The particular tires I bought (Michelin Sport Plus I think they're called) may not be available in the UK (or at least not under that name) and were not quite as grippy as the OE RFTs, but got better as they got broken in. I also bought a can of Slime and a portable compressor. Later I bought a real spare tire.

I will go the same route on the F10 although I have a lease and must return the car with appropriate tires, so I may do it a bit early and keep the RFTs to swap back on before lease end. The lease terms are not explicit in so far as RFTs or not, just that they must be equivalent tires (I assume size and function). Which could be interpreted as RFTs.... oh I'm so confused!

Sorry to read of your dissatisfaction with the F10. Mine is a later car (I assume) and does not seem to have any steering issues, although it does have other issues unfortunately.
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      01-25-2011, 02:01 PM   #12
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Thanks for the comments.. I will update you in a few days when I've got my conti sportcontact2 on the car.

The dealer said I need to inform my insurance as I've changed the specification of the car.. really?? surely changing tyres shouldn't make any issues, should it?
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      01-25-2011, 02:18 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Thanks for the comments.. I will update you in a few days when I've got my conti sportcontact2 on the car.

The dealer said I need to inform my insurance as I've changed the specification of the car.. really?? surely changing tyres shouldn't make any issues, should it?
Insurers vary in their approach to changing tyre specs. Some will want to know, others aren't bothered. Technically the terms are likely to require you to inform them of any modification which changes the vehicle from the manufacturers original specification. Some will load your premium for changing, others won't.

It's up to you whether you tell them or not in the end. Worst case scenario you have a blow out at high speed and total the car. If the report to the loss adjuster indicates it could have been prevented by RFTs for example, and you didn't tell them about the change, you can bet they will refuse to pay out a penny - they will find every opportunity in the small print to allow them not to pay a claim.
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      01-25-2011, 07:16 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
Thanks for the comments.. I will update you in a few days when I've got my conti sportcontact2 on the car.

The dealer said I need to inform my insurance as I've changed the specification of the car.. really?? surely changing tyres shouldn't make any issues, should it?
You most definitely should inform your insurer.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Titanflux View Post
Insurers vary in their approach to changing tyre specs. Some will want to know, others aren't bothered. Technically the terms are likely to require you to inform them of any modification which changes the vehicle from the manufacturers original specification. Some will load your premium for changing, others won't.

It's up to you whether you tell them or not in the end. Worst case scenario you have a blow out at high speed and total the car. If the report to the loss adjuster indicates it could have been prevented by RFTs for example, and you didn't tell them about the change, you can bet they will refuse to pay out a penny - they will find every opportunity in the small print to allow them not to pay a claim.
I totally agree with 'Titanflux'. If insurance companies have a legal loophole to refuse a claim and if their small-print states that you should notify them of any change, you may find yourself without cover in the event of an accident. In a worst case scenario of you being deemed at fault, with substantial third party damage and injury, imagine yourself paying out for the rest of your life. I don't want to appear alarmist, but if you put everything in writing and receive likewise in confirmation, you'll have peace of mind in knowing that you're covered.
I queried my insurance company (Aviva) concerning a tyre change and was told that provided I stuck with the original sizes as supplied with the car, they did not require to be informed. However, that would most definitely not apply to a change of wheel size.
I noted earlier that you have 20" wheels and, on the assumption that your car was not supplied with them as original equipment and unless you've already done so, I would strongly recommend that you inform your insurance company of the change and ask for their acknowledgement in writing. I suspect you'll be surcharged, but if the figures get a bit silly, you can always shop around.
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      01-26-2011, 05:55 PM   #15
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I had a 2007 335i with runflats. I changed the rears out for non-runflats and kept the runflats on the front with no noticeable difference other than better traction and a nicer ride.

The Michelin runflats on my 2011 550 are awesome. Great traction and comfort. I may not change to non-runflats. We'll see.
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      01-27-2011, 02:13 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon D View Post
I noted earlier that you have 20" wheels and, on the assumption that your car was not supplied with them as original equipment and unless you've already done so, I would strongly recommend that you inform your insurance company of the change and ask for their acknowledgement in writing. I suspect you'll be surcharged, but if the figures get a bit silly, you can always shop around.
Actually the 20 inch are original BMW fitted.. but I appreciate your input.
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      01-27-2011, 02:18 PM   #17
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UPDATE .............


I think that says it all...

The car is transformed. Handling is now pin sharp, the grip is fantastic, road noise is reduced, I can again feel the road... One extremely happy owner..

I ultimately opted for Continental sport2 on the rears and Conti sport contact 5P high performance on the front.. (would have gone 5p all around but they don't offer the rear tyre size)

BTW, I informed the insurance and they were quite OK with the swap, no added cost.

Winner all around...
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      01-27-2011, 04:23 PM   #18
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Good news... I'm reading it has changed the car completely, but specifically, how's the steering? From awful to ......

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      01-27-2011, 04:42 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
Good news... I'm reading it has changed the car completely, but specifically, how's the steering? From awful to ......

HighlandPete
In a word, "balanced" I think sums it up.

It's moved the steering feel from vague to balanced. I still think my E60 ran better. But in honesty, the e60 wasn't running on 20 inch wheels. So if all was equal, I'd say it's about the same now.

When the fitters removed the two fronts, both had buldges in the Walls. I really don't push my cars and have only hit a couple of pit holes recently after the bad snow. I think the damage happened due to the tyre wall being so blinking stiff, when the pot hole hit, something had to give. The fitter demonstrated the difference in tyre to me. He sat on the removed RFT. The centre opening barely moved even with his feet off the ground. Doing the same on the conti sport 5 and the tyre flexed a lot.
Not moving back to RFT.
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      01-28-2011, 03:48 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uktivo View Post
UPDATE .............


I think that says it all...

The car is transformed. Handling is now pin sharp, the grip is fantastic, road noise is reduced, I can again feel the road... One extremely happy owner..

I ultimately opted for Continental sport2 on the rears and Conti sport contact 5P high performance on the front.. (would have gone 5p all around but they don't offer the rear tyre size)

BTW, I informed the insurance and they were quite OK with the swap, no added cost.

Winner all around...
Great news - many thanks for the follow-up.
Now all I have to do is make the decision to splash out £2.5K on a set of 20" wheels and non-runflats!
I'm a little confused as to your front/rear size difference - you originally mentioned that you had 275/30/20 all round.
Good to hear that your insurance company were ok about the changes.
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      01-28-2011, 05:55 AM   #21
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So we may be on to why EPS and the F10/11 doesn't always work together. Back to tyres, as I've suggested before. I know my gut feeling has been tyres all along, for some of the issues, and why reports and experiences are so often poles apart for the F10/11 cars. Both for steering, ride, handling, planted feeling.

Jon, have you thought of tyres for your 19" wheels, or do you want to experiment and compare results? It's why I got another wheel set when I was sorting the 3-series, had a baseline to work from for any changes.

We need a few more to get rid of RFTs to see where we really are.

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      01-28-2011, 06:27 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPete View Post
So we may be on to why EPS and the F10/11 doesn't always work together. Back to tyres, as I've suggested before. I know my gut feeling has been tyres all along, for some of the issues, and why reports and experiences are so often poles apart for the F10/11 cars. Both for steering, ride, handling, planted feeling.

Jon, have you thought of tyres for your 19" wheels, or do you want to experiment and compare results? It's why I got another wheel set when I was sorting the 3-series, had a baseline to work from for any changes.

We need a few more to get rid of RFTs to see where we really are.

HighlandPete
Pete, as always - appreciate your input.
My car has 18" wheels, the reason being that, when configuring the car, I didn't like the look of the optional 19's and seeing as they weren't far short of £2k, I thought I save the cash for a future upgrade such as this.
So, either way, I have to change the wheels and as there's not a huge price between 19 and 20, I figure I might as well go for the latter.
Only decision remaining is what make of non-runflat? I'm very tempted to follow 'uktivo' and get Continentals, but I'm not too sure about mixing different model/tread patterns between front and rear.
I've heard good reports about Vredestein Sessantas and they're quite reasonably priced - do you have any recommendations?
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