[e93WhiteonRed]

So yeah - yet another problem with my E93. I think Shiv owes me a clutch because this didn't happen with the JB3... ha

Had it slip about 4-5 times in 3rd gear at around 3k rpm's. I dont want to take any chances with the flywheel so I'm throwing in an ACT street clutch on Friday.

The shop quoted me $649 for labor on the job - what are your thoughts? Is that too high? Also - they dont work on a lot of BMW's, but I know they have a ton of experience, have seen their customers cars, did my buddies clutch in an S2000 and I've watched their 7 second truck race. That being said, I want to make sure everything is covered. What needs to be replaced? Throwout bearing? Bolts for pressure plate? clutch fork?

Please let me know if there is anything I need to let them know is typically replaced when the clutch is swapped. Has anyone had any issues with a slipping clutch and needing a flywheel? what are the chances I'll have hotspots and will need to replace the flywheel?

MR5 and matt@cambertoe - any suggestions?

Thanks!

[dzenno]

More than a few people have already changed out their stock clutches including myself...i put in a clutchmasters ceramic which went after 4500km only (most likely a defective part, will find out today) but now I'm running the ACT street with my stock dual mass flywheel and so far so good...ACT street is an organic full face clutch and when mated to the stock dual mass flywheel it feels butter smooth just like stock, perfect for daily driving and plenty holding power for up to 500whp on this car...the clutchmasters fx400 was 6 puck ceramic and requires their aluminum flywheel...it holds more torque on paper and performed great for a 6 puck ceramic on this car (given how other puck ceramic clutches with lightweight flywheels perform) but its definitely way less smooth engagement wise and has chatter due to the lightweight single mass flywheel which is natural....

in terms of labour, if you get a shop that's done a clutch on N54 before it shouldn't take them more than 3.5-4 hours to do...for a shop that hasn't done it before it'll take them twice as long as they'll struggle getting the tranny down...tricky part is the 2 housing bolts at the top of the housing...basically you can barely see one of them and the other you can't at all...what we learned when I did it with a friend of mine is you kind of have to work from the top of the engine bay to get the socket on them and have a very long extension piece long enough to reach all the way down the tranny housing to the front where these two are..

best price was 350 for this but 550-600 isn't expensive if they haven't done it before...over 600 is probably a bit much to charge (not sure what they charge per hour) but if they can guarantee the install in some way then I guess its ok...

[Bimmer This]

Always replace the throwout bearing and pilot bearing. Since your in there, why not be in the market for a lightweight fly wheel. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Always replace the throwout bearing and pilot bearing. Since your in there, why not be in the market for a lightweight fly wheel. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone.

Try to stay away from a lightweight flywheel if you can unless you know what chatter sounds like ..If you're going with the ACT street clutch you don't need it...

Definitely get the throwout bearing + fork and pilot bearing replaced when you do it...

[huyner328]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Always replace the throwout bearing and pilot bearing. Since your in there, why not be in the market for a lightweight fly wheel. It's like killing 2 birds with one stone.

This. LTWFW was one of the best things I did for my E46 and would do it again in my E92. Chatter wasn't horrible... but a downside for sure. I'm happy with the stock clutch for the power I'm putting out and happy for a free replacement while I still could. Certainly a nice chunk of change that could be good towards the LSD fund.

[Bimmer This]

Originally Posted by dzenno

Try to stay away from a lightweight flywheel if you can unless you know what chatter sounds like ..If you're going with the ACT street clutch you don't need it...

Definitely get the throwout bearing + fork and pilot bearing replaced when you do it...

I've actually done a couple of them with minor chatter. You'd bearly notice it chattering.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

I've actually done a couple of them with minor chatter. You'd bearly notice it chattering.

What clutch/flywheel and on what car? I can tell you that the Spec 14lb N54 alum. flywheel will chatter like a diesel truck ... the CM 16lb is MUCH better and chatters only if you go WOT under 2k rpm and obviously when idling and getting going in 1st...all I'm saying is if its your daily driver and you see a ton of stop/go traffic you may not like it, but if you don't they you'll LOVE it...enjoyment of the lightweight flywheel 100% depends on this...if the car isn't your daily driver and it won't see tons of stop/go traffic every day then its great!

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by dzenno

What clutch/flywheel and on what car? I can tell you that the Spec 14lb N54 alum. flywheel will chatter like a diesel truck ... the CM 16lb is MUCH better and chatters only if you go WOT under 2k rpm and obviously when idling and getting going in 1st...all I'm saying is if its your daily driver and you see a ton of stop/go traffic you may not like it, but if you don't they you'll LOVE it...enjoyment of the lightweight flywheel 100% depends on this...if the car isn't your daily driver and it won't see tons of stop/go traffic every day then its great!

Ive heard that the lightweight flywheel is no good on these cars?? I thought that the extra weight was needed?

[Bimmer This]

They were not BMW's.

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

They were not BMW's.

They work out better/worse on some cars vs. others...on this car I've run the stock clutch + 36lb stock dual mass fw (OEM), 6 puck ceramic + 16lb single mass aluminum fw, and now the ACT street organic full face clutch and the stock dual mass fw (resurfaced)...for me and this car being a daily driver seeing tons of stop/go traffic and the power the car is making today the ACT with the dual mass flywheel is the ultimate combo...when I upgrade the turbos that may no longer be the case and I may need to upgrade back to a solid flywheel...

[Penn999]

Originally Posted by dzenno

They work out better/worse on some cars vs. others...on this car I've run the stock clutch + 36lb stock dual mass fw (OEM), 6 puck ceramic + 16lb single mass aluminum fw, and now the ACT street organic full face clutch and the stock dual mass fw (resurfaced)...for me and this car being a daily driver seeing tons of stop/go traffic and the power the car is making today the ACT with the dual mass flywheel is the ultimate combo...when I upgrade the turbos that may no longer be the case and I may need to upgrade back to a solid flywheel...

Ahh I wouldnt fool around too much with the flywheel. Unless you have a specific role for the car(track or dragstrip). I dont wanna lose any top end. Rotational mass is key if you do a lot of 60-130 runs, this is what I like. If I did anything to the flywheel I would just get a re-inforced flywheel that is close to the weight of the OEM.

[vasillalov]

Lightweight flywheels are good for improving the engine response. Your engine will rev quicker but it will also loose revs quicker.

You will also loose some (little bit) torque with a lightweight flywheel because you are reducing rotational mass...

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by vasillalov

Lightweight flywheels are good for improving the engine response. Your engine will rev quicker but it will also loose revs quicker.

You will also loose some (little bit) torque with a lightweight flywheel because you are reducing rotational mass...

..but it will accelerate faster (only noticeable 1st and 2nd gear)...this car has a tremendous amount of torque off the line and lightweight flywheel really has more disadvantages on the N54 than advantages...one things I did like is it made the car feel more "raw" when WOT...its like a feeling of putting on a louder exhaust...just a feeling...mostly due to more vibration through the shifter I think

[Alpina_B3_Lux]

Originally Posted by Bimmer This

Always replace the throwout bearing and pilot bearing.

Does anyone have part numbers of these two?

I'll be in the same situation within short, i.e. installation of a Clutch Masters clutch (FX300) and a shop that is good but with little BMW experience.

Alpina_B3_Lux

[dzenno]

Alpine, fx300 with a stock dual mass flywheel or their single mass alum?

Pilot bearing (they call it cylindrical roller bearing, goes into your tranny input shaft, inside)
part num: 21207536792
You can see it here: http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?...87&hg=11&fg=20

Throwout bearing and fork you don't need to worry about as you'll get them from CM...

[e93WhiteonRed]

What about issues with the stock flywheel. If I was already slipping, how worried should I be about hotsopots or glazing... Also, does the act come with a fork and throwout bearing as well?

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by e93WhiteonRed

What about issues with the stock flywheel. If I was already slipping, how worried should I be about hotsopots or glazing... Also, does the act come with a fork and throwout bearing as well?

You'll only know how bad it is once you get the flywheel out...unless its really badly damaged it can be resurfaced...make sure the shop has done resurfacing of dual mass flywheels before...i've resurfaced mine but they didn't turn it...they used a grinder and clamped the top piece affixing it in place and then used the grinder to resurface it...mine was "pretty" bad when it was taken off and they had to take off .044''...working just fine...

[e93WhiteonRed]

That's crazy that you had it resurfaced.. Everyone I've talked to said they haven't found anyone that is willing to try it.

[cn555ic]

The chatter along is going to make you annoyed...

[dzenno]

Originally Posted by e93WhiteonRed

That's crazy that you had it resurfaced.. Everyone I've talked to said they haven't found anyone that is willing to try it.

Places don't want to do it party because a lot of them don't have a machine that could grip the top piece and keep it firmly in place for the grinder to grind the flywheel face and the top part where screws go...the other reason is if its to be done "right" it needs to be done with care i.e. slow...and in the end they charge $80-$120 for it which to a lot of shops isn't worth the hassle...

i got mine done at a transmission shop chain called Mr. Transmission...only one of their locations was up for doing it...

If you google around a bit you'll see that a lot of people say don't do it as its not "recommended" while those that have actually gone through with it and had it done didn't have any problems...

[99three]

Originally Posted by Penn999

Ahh I wouldnt fool around too much with the flywheel. Unless you have a specific role for the car(track or dragstrip). I dont wanna lose any top end. Rotational mass is key if you do a lot of 60-130 runs, this is what I like. If I did anything to the flywheel I would just get a re-inforced flywheel that is close to the weight of the OEM.

You will not lose top end performance with a lighter FW. It will allow you to accelerate/turbo spool up much quicker due to the lesser amount of rotational mass. At the end of the day, less mass equals a better responding motor. The question is 1) does fitting a LFW stall the motor, 2) does it sound like marbles in a coffee can, and 3) does the 'chatter' dissapear when the clutch is pressed?

Some points:

City driving

• acceleration is improved with a lighter flywheel
• the engine has to rotate less mass so it works more efficiently
• you will have to adapt a new driving style to avoid stalling
• gear changes are more frequent and need to be executed faster
• it requires more frequent adjustments to maintain cruising speed and may burn more fuel

Drag

• acceleration is quick with a lighter flywheel
• you run through the gears quickly
• a lighter flywheel does not add horsepower
• too light a flywheel in a heavy car will struggle to get it off the line quickly

Drift

• the lighter the flywheel the more revs you need to break traction
• the fluctuations of a light flywheel require more frequent adjustments upsetting the balance of the car

Race

• a lighter flywheel is an all round improvement
• quicker acceleration
• lower effective car weight
• precise rev control

Here's some good reading> http://www.metricmechanic.com/catalo...tion-tests.php

[itsbrokeagain]

you also have to replace the 4 transmission bolts..the m12 ones I think...they are stretched to yield and have to be replaced everytime the trans comes down.

The rest can be reused. I always replaced the throwout bearing (comes with a lever, be sure to have it on correctly if its not put together from the start), the throwout bearing lever that is in the trans bellhousing, and the pressure plate to flywheel bolts...if you are changing the flywheel then you need new bolts for the flywheel too.