fuel tank / direct injection

[ky_soldier]

anyone have any idea how large a fuel tank the new M3 will have, esp as it relates to the mpg?

i don't expect great mpg, but the M5 needs to be refueled way too fast. could have used a much larger tank.

my cayenne turbo drinks gas too, but at least the tank is large

[replicat]

Hmm, the e46 M3 is 16.6 gallons, so I'd assume that it would get bigger by at least a little. My guess is maybe 18, tops. Any bigger than that, would be a big surprise.

Goodnight.

[JK42]

I'll bet the same as the E92 335i Coupé, 63 liters (about 15.75 gallons), because the old E46 M3 had the same 63 liter capacity as the old E46 Coupé. Or perhaps they'll increase it by 7-12 liters because of the V8, then it would be a maximum of 75 liters (18.75 gallons)

Best regards,

Jussi

[Romo]

Jussie, what`s your estimation on fuell consumption for the new M3, compared with the E46 M3?

[JK42]

I estimate (I know this is radical) about the same. BMW has done so much in terms of reducing fuel consumption in the last 8 years, that the outgoing E46 M3's S54B32 engine is a real pig in terms of fuel consumption (well, not in American terms, but in European terms), because it is so old design, so the new V8 could well be in about the same ballpark as it was - that's because other newer BMW V8's with the 2nd gen Valvetronic are - for example the N62B40 "vanilla" 4.0L V8 on the current 540i and the 740i consumes 16.2l/100km in the urban, 8.0 extra-urban and a composite DIN consumption of 11.0 liters per 100km.

The old S54B32 on the E46 M3 drinks 20.4l/100km urban, 9.3 extra-urban and a composite DIN consumption of 13.4 liters per 100km - that is - way more than a modern 4 liter V8 from BMW! The Cabriolet has even a little higher numbers. Even the 4.8 liter V8 (N62B48) in the 550i and 750i consumes less than the old E46 M3! It's combined compsite DIN consumption is 11.3 liters per 100 kilometers and it weighs 1735kg, which is way more than the new M3 will weigh.

Best regards,

Jussi

[Romo]

That`s not bad for a 4L V8 engine!

Do you know when BMW releases the defenite HP/NM figures? You told earlier that production is not far away now, could we expect those numbers still this year?

I know, a lot of questions, but I`ll recon you `ll have the answers................

Regards,

Romo

[JK42]

I am sure the numbers will be released in Geneva, just like the car. I don't recall any instance in the past where BMW would have released the numbers before the car.

Best regards,

Jussi

[southlight]

Originally Posted by JK42

I am sure the numbers will be released in Geneva, just like the car. I don't recall any instance in the past where BMW would have released the numbers before the car.

Hello!
BMW "releases" the cars nowadays before their unveiling at the motor shows.
So did BMW with the M5:
The M5 was presented at Paris in Sep 2004.
The press release on the M5 however was published on July 2nd 2004.
(with information about the Hp and technical information on the motor in june).

So either there's a M3 concept in Geneva (then there will be no information before) or we'll see the real deal in Geneva which means a PR 2 or 3 month before (maybe December).

Regards south

[JK42]

Originally Posted by southlight

Hello!
BMW "releases" the cars nowadays before their unveiling at the motor shows.
So did BMW with the M5:
The M5 was presented at Paris in Sep 2004.
The press release on the M5 however was published on July 2nd 2004.
(with information about the Hp and technical information on the motor in june).

So either there's a M3 concept in Geneva (then there will be no information before) or we'll see the real deal in Geneva which means a PR 2 or 3 month before (maybe December).

Regards south

You're right. What I meant to say is that they should release the numbers in Geneva at the latest, because that's where the car WILL be released. There are no huge auto industry events anymore before Geneva, so I don't think the numbers will come first this time around. Besides, it being the 20th anniversary of the M3, BMW will have ad campaigns and other propaganda out there widely about the M3 and they probably want to drop the new M3 as a whole bombshell with the car and the info at the same time.

Best regards,

Jussi

[southlight]

Originally Posted by JK42

You're right. What I meant to say is that they should release the numbers in Geneva at the latest, because that's where the car WILL be released. There are no huge auto industry events anymore before Geneva, so I don't think the numbers will come first this time around. Besides, it being the 20th anniversary of the M3, BMW will have ad campaigns and other propaganda out there widely about the M3 and they probably want to drop the new M3 as a whole bombshell with the car and the info at the same time.

Best regards,

Jussi

Yeah, but the 20th anniversary is this year, so this would mean a release (maybe in concept form) in 2006 (as i meant: probably december).
But if i understand you right, you say no M3 concept at all, but the "real deal" in Geneva in March. Is this right?

Best regards south

[Romo]

Originally Posted by southlight

Yeah, but the 20th anniversary is this year, so this would mean a release (maybe in concept form) in 2006 (as i meant: probably december).
But if i understand you right, you say no M3 concept at all, but the "real deal" in Geneva in March. Is this right?

Best regards south

5 months, and counting.......................................... ........


Regards Romo

[JK42]

Originally Posted by southlight

Yeah, but the 20th anniversary is this year, so this would mean a release (maybe in concept form) in 2006 (as i meant: probably december).
But if i understand you right, you say no M3 concept at all, but the "real deal" in Geneva in March. Is this right?

Best regards south

Let's hope so (as far as the concept this year) because of the anniversary - but I haven't heard of it. But it makes sense. The real deal will be in Geneva, that is confirmed.

Best regards,

Jussi

[replicat]

I guess that answers a question I asked in another thread. So the the specs may or may not be release prior to the unveiling. Sounds good.

[Romo]

Originally Posted by replicat

I guess that answers a question I asked in another thread. So the the specs may or may not be release prior to the unveiling. Sounds good.

No it does not sound good; we want them now, the numbers that is....

[replicat]

Lol, of course we do! The main thing that I am waiting for, that is realistic though, is for somebody to take a damn picture of the cluster. I want to see the redline!!

[enigma]

The high fuel consumption of M engines in the urban cycle mostly comes from the warmup fuel consumption. The cats are larger and placed much farther from the engine. This requires more fuel to be burned during the warmup loop to bring everything up to operating temp.

The higher highway consumption is mostly due to the lower gearing and a larger displacement engine compared to the non-M cars.

I don't expect the new V8 to do anything about the warmup fuel consumption. However, depending on what the top gear ratio is the 2nd one may be addressed.

[JK42]

The E46 M3 was one of the first BMWs to receive an overdrive gear (6th gear) with the ratio of 0.85:1 I believe it was (could have been longer), so none of those two details explain the S52B32 engines fuel hogness on long extra-urban stretches, even though you are right about short urban hops where the warmup becomes an important factor, and I believe the DIN measurement for the urban consumption had quite a short measurement cycle, so that's why the urban consumption is so far off the roof. Anywy, fact of the matter is that 2nd gen Valvetronic and new developments of VANOS have reduced consumption of the more powerful V8's to lower levels than the S54B32 has, so I think we should also see much better fuel economy (relatively, given that the engine is also of larger displacement) on the new M3. Even the S85B50 has a great fuel economy compared to the S65, considering it revs much higher and has over 100hp+ more.

Best regards,

Jussi

[enigma]

Unless you have heard something new I don't expect Valvetronic to be a part of the new V8. It adds too much mass to the valvetrain to allow the engine to operate at 9k rpm. Its possible BMW came up with something new but I think its unlikely.

[JK42]

Originally Posted by southlight

That information is wrong: The M5 engine does not have valvetronic. Valvetronic indeed can't handle 8000 or 9000 RPM.
Maybe it's the suprise of the M3 E92 enginge, but for now no valvetronic in M Cars.

Regards south

South,

Valvetronic has advanced as well. I'm pretty sure it won't be included in this M engine either, as it wasn't on any previous ones, but BMW has stated that the current second gen Valvetronic can easily take 8000rpm+ or so. I wonder why they would state that if they had no intentions to take it to those levels.. Anyway, I don't think it will have Valvetronic, but that won't be the major determining factor in fuel consumption, as it "only" saves about 13% on the average.

Best regards,

Jussi

[southlight]

Thank you for that information, Jussi.
But i also wonder why the developed a second gen. valvetronic; now BMW features Direct injection on all inline6 engines (and even the inline4 starts to get DI). So i see no more use of valvetronic for BMW(only one left seems to be the new mini cooper engine).
I also doubt the new M3 engine will feature DI!

Best regards, south

[JK42]

Actually, the Direct injection engines haven't come out yet. They will be the N53-series as straight sixes when they do come out. That's the true fuel direct injection. Then they will not need Valvetronic, you are right about that.

The second gen Valvetronic was developed mainly for the N52 magnesium aluminium-block straight sixes, but is also used in some N62 V8's (the latest models 40 and 48.)

Best regards,

Jussi

[southlight]

Originally Posted by JK42

Actually, the Direct injection engines haven't come out yet. They will be the N53-series as straight sixes when they do come out. That's the true fuel direct injection.

The 335i is on the roads, x30i, x25i, x20i will debut with the convertible in march.

So it seems the only engine to feature valvetronic for some time will be the 40 48 models as you said.

regards south