1M Revealed So Far - Second Thoughts?

[HERR FSTIR]

I was initially very enthusiastic about this car. A real throwback to the old M3s. Who knows, maybe it will be just that. But some of the details revealed lately cast doubt on that hope.

Earlier this year the engine was stated to be a derivative of the N55. We now are near certain it will be a version of the N54. And given money and time constraints, probably a minimally modified version at that.

DCT was initially part of the deal too. But time and cost constraints got in the way of that.

An extensive personalization program including extensive carbon fiber elements also seems to have fallen victim to time and money restrictions.

Ironically, according to Bimmerfile, the car will probably only be available in Valencia Orange, Alpine White and Jerez Black. Not much of a personalization program.

At the end of the day it seems like we get some cool body panels powered by a 135is engine coupled to a M3 differential and suspension. Not the worst thing in the world, but I have to say it is anticlimactic.

I just hope this extended strip tease is not some lame marketing effort to overcome these potential deficiencies.

[clar]

I couldn't have said it better myself...

[993 911]

Only thing that is nice about this car is the extra rubber.

[BBK]

Always had in the back of my mind that BMW would go soft with the 1M due to costs and stepping on the feet of the M3. I'm starting to think my next car might be a Porsche.

I would like DCT, and similar performance to the M3 but doubt it will happen.

Love the look so far of it though...

[HBspeed]

I have since the beginning been interested and remain so. However like most I am not convinced of how true of an M car this will be especially in regards to the engine. I have an E46 M3 which I won't be parting will regardless of what my next car purchase ends up being. In many ways the 1M appears to be the true successor to the E46 M3 if you are like me and weren't willing to accept the direction the E92 M3. However I once again am finding it hard to rationalize making another M purchase.

The E92 M3 is faster and has more power, but weighs more and lost feel in relation to the E46 M3 as i found during numerous test drives. Therefore no sale.

The 1M looks like it will weigh near the same and hopefully have similar feel as the E46 M3. This is a great improvement over the E92 M3 as most here will agree. However the engine is the real sticking point. Assuming it is an upgraded N54 making somewhere from 330-360 hp, what would I be gaining in adding a 1M to my collection?

This engine is not going to be bespoke or unique in the same way as the S54 for cost reasons as has been made clear. There will obviously be much more powerful turbocharged Inline 6 engines made by BMW in the future, unlike the S54 which was the last of the high performance naturally aspirated Inline 6 engines. Sure the added torque will be nice, but I am not interested in dumping money into engine tuning and accepting the possible consequences of doing so.

This leads me to wonder what the 1M would do for me sitting next to the E46 M3 in my garage. I hope the 1M blows us all away and is an amazing car, but I can't help but wonder if the 1M is BMW's attempt to bring back the success of the E46 M3 with the pieces it has in play at the moment.

[niuniu]

Originally Posted by formula M

The sum of the parts, is not the whole.

I was just about to post that. Aristotle anyone

Doesn't matter if the 1M turns out to be made from Segler's wife's haircurler parts or if it was originally intended to be a golf cart - if the car when completed can hang with a Cayman S or Audi TTRS, has usable rear seats, and stickers around £40-£44k ish then I will buy it at the drop of a hat.

At the moment BMW doesn't have a small car with the necessary attitude. They have the 135i - but that's too conservative looking. Give it a bit more power, give it some aggression and have at it.

Like formula said, the whole is greater than the sum of it's parts.

Ride it and see - it's the only way to know.

[deshields]

Im not sure, you seem to be building alot of opinion on top of speculation. We really dont know the exact nature of the engine yet, nor its level of output, let alone its driving nature.

But lets look at the facts from your POV for a moment. HP seems to be the driving factor in your decision making, although I think HP is one of the less important qualities of a car, lets examine it anyways.

M5 = 500HP.
M3 = 414HP.
-------------
335is = 326HP.
135i = 306HP.

Now looking at the raw figures there, I would expect a 1M to fit inbetween the M3 and the 135i/335is. You cant expect BMW to put a 400HP engine into the 1 Series, it just doesnt make sense from a technical point of view, or a marketing POV. The M5 > M3 > 1M. Anyways, that leaves us with an engine that should probably produce power somewhere between 326HP and 414HP. Lets say somewhere in the 350-370HP range when all is said and done. What makes you think BMW didn't achieve this raw HP # with their version of a modified N54? Having achieved such a horsepower figure with an inline 6 cylinder engine that drives just the same as a NA engine should really satisfy any and every criteria for an M 1 series car. What else are you asking for really?

The 1M isnt being built with the purpose of outdating the E46 M3. That car is a classic in its own right, but if you are only looking to 'upgrade' the car with something thats more powerful, then you might be looking in the wrong direction when looking at the 1M. Its built on components that were built upon the E46 chassis. If you really want an 'upgrade' to your M3 then you have to look upwards in the BMW hierarchy, that means either an E92 M3 or an M5.

The 1M on the other hand simply represents a different direction, a more drivers oriented car, and Im glad the focus is less on raw HP and more on the driving characteristics of the car.

Having never once been let down by an M car, Im not really worried about the final result.

[jdmorris]

It's funny. I was thinking about a 135i to replace my 'antique' E36 M3 that I've had for 8 years and over 100,000 miles but when I checked it out I decided I would need wider front fenders to fit wider rubber, brakes that could handle taking the car out to instruct at the track, much sportier seats and an LSD. At which point it didn't make good financial sense. So now BMW is actually going to take the car I like and fix pretty much every point I thought was a shortcoming on the 135i without braking the bank with stuff I don't care about (nav, idrive, DCT, one-off motor, tacky body panels, carbon fiber everywhere). I totally understand that it won't be the car for everybody, but it's exactly what I wanted and all the merrier if all the new parts come straight off another car to make them cheaper for maintenance in the future (akin to my E36 although obviously less so). Anyway, sorry to you guys that aren't getting what you want but I'm that guy (assuming a handful of final details go the right way) that is getting just what I want. And I never considered buying a new BMW in any other color than Alpine White. They could call it the 'JD' edition of the 1 series!



JD

[HBspeed]

Originally Posted by deshields

The 1M isnt being built with the purpose of outdating the E46 M3. That car is a classic in its own right, but if you are only looking to 'upgrade' the car with something thats more powerful, then you might be looking in the wrong direction when looking at the 1M. Its built on components that were built upon the E46 chassis. If you really want an 'upgrade' to your M3 then you have to look upwards in the BMW hierarchy, that means either an E92 M3 or an M5.

For me an E92 M3 or an M5 would be the opposite of an upgrade as I am solely judging such sports cars on their ability to be just that; sports cars. I am not interested in increased weight and luxury with their corresponding increase in power as you have defined as an upgrade.

My concern is that the 1M does not seem to be moving the game on enough from the E46 M3 other than increased torque and tuning potential, neither of which have much relation to what it means to be a sports car.

[HERR FSTIR]

I am not trying to be a killjoy here. Just expressing a little concern as we learn more about the exact specifications.

My main concern about the engine is not the peak output, but how power is delivered. I like the N54 a great deal, but it really runs out of steam after 5.5K. It would be encouraging to learn they have improved upon this by altering the turbo setup a little bit.

My other issue with the N54 is the boost can sometimes ramp up slowly or unpredictably (i.e. between 3rd and 4th gears). DCT would have helped avoid this by keeping the boost up between shifts.

The personalization program offered a way for BMW to keep the price low for a stripped down version, while also offering a lot of high end options.

That being said, I am not asking for my deposit back anytime soon. IMHO the 3 series has become a little too heavy and lost some of its feel (it's really becoming what the 5 series used to be). I'm still hopeful the feel of this car will be special. If they can accomplish that, and improve the N54's wheezing at higher rpms, then I'll be satisfied.

And I'm very curious about any weight savings they may have achieved (fingers crossed).

[sparoz]

Same here, a bit disappointed with Scott's latest remarks re the engine. I don't mind the engine being evolved into something sort of in between, but it would be not worthy of the 1///M badge if it has a N54 from the IS engine with little change. At best, it would be a 135M and not a 1M. To make it worthy of the 1M badge, it needs to be superior to all the forms of current T6 available and it needs to have modification to the engine itself and not the just the power train.

Hopefully BMW delivers though, because if not, I am not changing my car, and the deposit will just have to go into changing my wife's car instead.

[sparoz]

I have just re read what Scott's written: '... not a straight forward transplant ...' I think we still have hope:

http://www.1addicts.com/forums/showt...=1#post7927624

[lacrosse]

Originally Posted by BBK

Always had in the back of my mind that BMW would go soft with the 1M due to costs and stepping on the feet of the M3. I'm starting to think my next car might be a Porsche.

I would like DCT, and similar performance to the M3 but doubt it will happen.

Love the look so far of it though...

I couldn't wait for the 1M and went the Porsche route. I could not be happier.

[02fireman]

I think the car is going to be amazing, quick, agile, and sexy. I want one yesterday. My only issue will be from a financial point. If the base $ will be around 45-47k (plus options) and the dealers decide that they will not give an ED price break, then an E90M3 at 47.4k base ED (plus options) will ultimately make it to my garage. I know I will not be able to get even close to ED invoice on a car like this, but the standard 7% ED price would do.

[mixxer]

So far from what i have seen it seems to be the perfect car except for the DCT being left off. I will look to a different option in car choice if its not available.Which is a shame because so far its everything i want carbon fiber roof,m suspension,wide body, duel quads 350+hp and LSD.And i would pay up extra for DCT if available.

[BMWDAD]

I am looking at different cars also...........but not because of the dct.

Got a M3 brochure today, and my wife comments only difference I can see is the color.
hmmmmmmmmm could I live with the same exterior/interior for another 4 years, and be happy with the performance although I was looking for a lighter car

Sort of scared about the duck tail spoiler on the 1M, is there a mention of a carbon roof?, turbo engine that much better than the 335i?, and an enhance suspension, right now does not seem that special but I WILL WAIT FOR THE FINAL PRODUCT. So this purchase is price dependent.

Plus the redesigned one and three on the coattails of the 1M is on my radar.
I have also been lurking on the redesigned RX (?), you guys see the Oct. Car and Driver?
Old RX 8 looking good, if it had a updated engine.


I as confused as ever.

[Fuerza]

Here are my thoughts, I have always liked the 1 series, but without it being an M car it was kind of a turn off. Now that the 1 series M coupe is here, I was hoping for all kinds of cool options DCT, M engine, ect. Now, with the new details revealed I kind of like the raw simpleness of this car. Many people thought the E90 M3 is soft compared to the previous M cars. This 1M is going back to the rawness IMO. No fancy transmission and a basically over tuned motor. DCT would have been nice, but then I think this car will fall into the SMG problematics the my car's owners fall in. N54 R&D is in full swing and will continue to grow IMO. I don't see the need to re-event the wheel on a new M motor, sorry that just me. As far as diff, suspension, brakes and wheels. Lets hope M engineers do it right and develop something with great handling, braking and balance!

[oztiks]

Still eager to see the final picture as a whole...And am quite certain my inside info of it having larger turbos and producing 354 HP will be pretty accurate and acceptable numbers for me. My issue with it thus far are the looks... it's taking the Mustang route, by that I mean "NEW" always looks like the same old. The headlights of the car and poor finish of where the hood ..bonnet..meet the headlights seems to me to be poor quality ...they do not meet up properly go ahead and check them out for yourself if you own a 1. Change them ugly buggy headlights and I may consider buying 1.

[uhn2000]

1M is raw ... period. Its not made for everyone, especially those that don't know how to drive stick. I think its a fantastic idea to introduce ///M at a lower price point - I love our 135i, its a fantastic car, and I can only imagine how much better the 1M will be.

[uhn2000]

I am not a survey pro by that survey really is very very bias toward the negative except for the first question. I really think we should wait to see and possibly drive the final product before judging.

[GeeRam]

Originally Posted by mixxer

So far from what i have seen it seems to be the perfect car except for the DCT being left off. I will look to a different option in car choice if its not available.Which is a shame because so far its everything i want carbon fiber roof,m suspension,wide body, duel quads 350+hp and LSD.And i would pay up extra for DCT if available.

Pretty much echoes my situation.

DCT option was a must have for me. Everything else, spec wise was looking great, although, I wasn't too keen on the 'fake' quad exhausts as I'd rather of seen a proper lightweight performance system. I don't buy all this ///M styling nonsense, it's the mechanicals that I'm buying the car for, not the styling trinkets, as I specifically want the car for a all in one, DD/weekend motorsport use.

So, looks like for me it'll have to be a wait for a used 135i or maybe a used E90 M3 and then wait till 2014 for the next gen M1....?

[niuniu]

I bet you DCT guys get it as an option in late 2011/2012