BMW call this "Premium Sound?"

[Davinhci]

-1 I think it's awesome, there is definitely something wrong if your wife's Camery "blows" the premium sound away. I totally disagree.

[BMW-NC]

-1. the premium audio is the best I've heard so far. Clear, crisp, agile.

[Krueger///M3]

Originally Posted by Davinhci

-1 I think it's awesome, there is definitely something wrong if your wife's Camery "blows" the premium sound away. I totally disagree.

+1, the sound is some of the best I've ever heard, esp with 320 kbps music on it. Camery FTW?

[bmwprince4life]

no way the camry is soo horrible.all toyota sound is shit! no offense. BMWs sound in all sound awesome. Tested in 328 4 dr,328 wagon,335 coupe,528,645,750li,m5,x3 and e46 m3 and all sound beautiful and Loud!

[badfish]

I guess I'm in the minority because I trust PencilGeek's opinion here. The standard system doesn't sound all that bad but it's a far cry from what I want my system to sound like. I should be finished overhauling my audio system by friday, I got the base HiFi. I knew that the premium sound system would not live up to my expectations so I passed on it.

The OEM design whether premium or base hifi has a huge problem in the midbass range. I think the guestimation of 800 hz and below is a bit high, the female vocals seem to be fine IMO so the big dip is somewhere well below 800 hz. My system sounds awful below 160 hz I think... The reason is because the front door speakers are only 4" and unless you can get something decent like a 6.5" speaker up front, you will have to deal with your midbass coming from under your seats or in the back. This results in a very poor front stage.

I think that the majority of consumers are not audiophiles and would be happy with the stock HiFi system. Those wanting a little bit better might opt for the premium though I think it's a ripoff. I paid $410 this weekend for the Alpine PDX-5, $158 for 2 earthquake 8" subs that drop into the OEM sub boxes, and then $200 for a set of 4" Diamond Audio speakers. Install accessories might add up to about $100. So for about $900 plus my install time I should have a pretty rocking system. It will not solve the midbass problem I alluded to earlier but it will be better nonetheless.

[fmquadri]

I have an '05 Tacoma truck with the OEM sound system (not the upgraded one) and it blew away the E46 M3 sound system. In fact, i've had 5-6k sound systems in cars before and the Toyota factory sound system in the tacoma is better than most (staging aside)- I've listened to an '05 Acura sound system and an '07 MB E350s premium sound system as well. The Tacoma's has better sub and mid-bass response with adequate highs. I was really pleasantly surprised. The only factory sound system i've been blown away with belonged to Nissan/Infiniti.

So I could believe that the Camry's upgraded system is pretty good too.

the E92's Premium system - high's are bright, sub bass is decent, mid-bass is lacking with most music. Cranking up the volume and the EQ in the mid-bass range helps a lot. With 320kbps MP3's the music sound pretty damn good. I think the E92's system is better than Toyotas and that they did a great job with staging (once set correctly).

IMO getting an aftermarket system isnt worth the possible hassles, electrical/trim/rattle issues that i've dealt with in the past. I believe getting the best sound system that the factory can provide is the most convenient and "fail-safe" way to enjoy tunes while driving these 70k beasts!

Maybe BMW can continue to improve their sound systems and look to other MFGs as examples. But I think they did a respectable job with the premium sound. $1900 is a bit much - but pricing of options has never been one of their strong points.

[jm1234]

When I tested the premium system there was plenty of low end bass. I noticed a slight (to my ears) weakness in the mid-bass but it was much improved in comparison to the low end (stock) system. The stock system is very bad IMO. I spent a half hour listening to the stock system and trying to convince myself it was "good enough" and finally ordered the premium. Since you say you can hear nothing below 800Hz I'm assuming you are talking about the entire low end and not just the mid-bass?

There should be two sub woofers, one under each of the front seats. I believe they have their own two channel amplifier (why a two channel sub amplifier is a mystery to me). Is it possible that these aren't working (from the head, the amplifier or maybe a fuse)? Since the rear speakers are larger perhaps shifting the sound that way helps restore the missing () subs and the combination is what is causing the various sound issues?

In any case I'm not sure how you wouldn't have noticed the missing subs before now so I feel stupid mentioning it...

The $1900 is to upgrade the sub amp from 40 to 70W, regular amp from 25 to 40W (I think it also adds three extra channels) (IIRC), to add the extra speakers and to upgrade the speaker quality. The system isn't overly great but I did some research and I didn't see how I could spend less than $1,200 (probably more) and many hours of my time installing a better system. I'm sure someone will speak up at this point who can do it cheaper and much better but he knows more than me or is talking out his ass and I do not want to spend $500-$1,000 just to figure out which. I don't think the premium system is a $2,000 stereo system but I think it's cheaper than the alternatives if you place any value on your time (for research and installation) and you'll wind up with fewer fit and finish issues long term (and therefore less "system noise" if you want to look at it that way).

[drvai]

Originally Posted by badfish

I guess I'm in the minority because I trust PencilGeek's opinion here. The standard system doesn't sound all that bad but it's a far cry from what I want my system to sound like. I should be finished overhauling my audio system by friday, I got the base HiFi. I knew that the premium sound system would not live up to my expectations so I passed on it.

The OEM design whether premium or base hifi has a huge problem in the midbass range. I think the guestimation of 800 hz and below is a bit high, the female vocals seem to be fine IMO so the big dip is somewhere well below 800 hz. My system sounds awful below 160 hz I think... The reason is because the front door speakers are only 4" and unless you can get something decent like a 6.5" speaker up front, you will have to deal with your midbass coming from under your seats or in the back. This results in a very poor front stage.

I think that the majority of consumers are not audiophiles and would be happy with the stock HiFi system. Those wanting a little bit better might opt for the premium though I think it's a ripoff. I paid $410 this weekend for the Alpine PDX-5, $158 for 2 earthquake 8" subs that drop into the OEM sub boxes, and then $200 for a set of 4" Diamond Audio speakers. Install accessories might add up to about $100. So for about $900 plus my install time I should have a pretty rocking system. It will not solve the midbass problem I alluded to earlier but it will be better nonetheless.

But having the system integrated with the car: priceless.

What about radio??? capacitors? Dynamat for the doors? That's more $$ you have to throw in.
A good fuse box and good cable will cost you more than 100.

This will be my first car in which I'll keep the stock audio (I think).
For years I have had european cars. The newer the car, the more difficult to go for aftermarket audio. Basically because of the wiring, incompatible consoles, computers, etc... I don't get why car manufactures (Some) don't realize that some people really "need" the option to install whatever they want.

Now a days is so much of a hassle to change systems. The premium sound is pretty acceptable, and having all together and "synchronized" is such a nice feature (phone, usb port, iDrive, wheel controls). Also, integrating the radio in the panel is not easy. You sometimes find adaptors that can help, but they not always manufacture for all the models.
Not to mention using half of the trunk for the sub(s) and amplifiers or the power consumption that you are adding to the electrical system

I realy hope you get a great sound out of your system but (PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED), honestly I don't think you can get a better sound with that system. (I'm just making an "informed guess") .

Alpines rock. I have always had Alpines. (not an Empeg, but better than anything stock). Using converters to keep the original head unit never works as it should, even though there are systems that are supposed to

I wonder how the subs will sound when installed in the original boxes...


Good luck and let us now what happened.

[GregW / Oregon]

Originally Posted by jm1234

There should be two sub woofers, one under each of the front seats. I believe they have their own two channel amplifier (why a two channel sub amplifier is a mystery to me). Is it possible that these aren't working (from the head, the amplifier or maybe a fuse)? Since the rear speakers are larger perhaps shifting the sound that way helps restore the missing subs and the combination is what is causing the various sound issues?

Sounds like checking to make sure they're working is key. I have no problem with bass shortage, even at flat settings, but everyone has different tastes.

[par4bmw]

Wow, with that EQ curve it does look like the subs are not be working properly. What type of music do you listen to?

The Levinson in my Lexus sounds incredible but I thought the premium held its own. Had some pluses and some minuses. Your system can not be operating properly it the std Toyota system sounds better.

[!Xoible]

fuck what's with the +1's and -1's??? what's the score now???

[Davinhci]

Originally Posted by ///Mantis

fuck what's with the +1's and -1's??? what's the score now???

looks like we have to go into overtime

[Technic]

Originally Posted by jm1234

The $1900 is to upgrade the sub amp from 40 to 70W, regular amp from 25 to 40W (I think it also adds three extra channels) (IIRC), to add the extra speakers and to upgrade the speaker quality. The system isn't overly great but I did some research and I didn't see how I could spend less than $1,200 (probably more) and many hours of my time installing a better system. I'm sure someone will speak up at this point who can do it cheaper and much better but he knows more than me or is talking out his ass and I do not want to spend $500-$1,000 just to figure out which. I don't think the premium system is a $2,000 stereo system but I think it's cheaper than the alternatives if you place any value on your time (for research and installation) and you'll wind up with fewer fit and finish issues long term (and therefore less "system noise" if you want to look at it that way).

Those power outputs (40W and 70W) are for the Logic7 system (Top HiFi, 9 channels, 420W max total), which is not offered in the M3. The $1900 Premium sound OEM amp puts out 825W (9 channels) max over the standard HiFi 180W max (6 channels).

[jm1234]

Originally Posted by Technic

Those power outputs (40W and 70W) are for the Logic7 system (Top HiFi, 9 channels, 420W max total), which is not offered in the M3. The $1900 Premium sound OEM amp puts out 825W (9 channels) max over the standard HiFi 180W max (6 channels).

Thanks I misread your post and didn't follow and cross reference all the system codes in the complete thread. I guess that you would need to purchase an even more powerful amplifiers in order to upgrade to the same specifications as the premium?

[jm1234]

Bass looks fine from the plot. I guess the problem is in your ear (they are too good for this car). On the bright side, you can always drive the Camry

[Technic]

Originally Posted by jm1234

Thanks I misread your post and didn't follow and cross reference all the system codes in the complete thread. I guess that you would need to purchase an even more powerful amplifiers in order to upgrade to the same specifications as the premium?

The Premium sound is suppose to be much more than the sum of the individual parts (825W amp, 9 channels, 16 speakers), just because of the custom DSP interior tuning.

So I guess that increasing power with an aftermarket amp will depend on what you are looking for in a system. I'm with badfish on this one: for the same or less $1900 I would get an all aftermarket system tuned to my liking. And with a JL Stealthbox possibly coming for the E9x in 10", I don't think that the Premium Audio could even touch that.

[GregW / Oregon]

Have you confirmed that the woofers under the seat are actually functioning? BTW, this is the list of speakers for those not able to find them all:

Dash center, 1 coax - 2
Front door mid - 2
Front door tweeter - 2
Rear side mid - 2
Rear side tweeter - 2
Rear shelf, 2 coax - 4
Under front seat bass - 2

Total - 16

[badfish]

Originally Posted by drvai

What about radio??? capacitors? Dynamat for the doors? That's more $$ you have to throw in.
A good fuse box and good cable will cost you more than 100.

The radio doesn't need to be replaced. I especially wanted to keep mine for the bluetooth and BMW assist to continue functioning nicely. Capacitor for this system is unnecessary, Dynamat would help a little if anything, not worth the trouble to go all out. So you just need an inline fuse which runs about $5 for a 4 gauge inline fuse. I bought 18 feet of 4 gauge power and ground, I thought it was expensive for $28 (rising copper prices) and I won't even need that much since I will leave the amp in the factory position and get power and ground at the battery. Granted, I get these things from distributors at lower prices but if you shop around you can get close to the same pricing.

Now a days is so much of a hassle to change systems. The premium sound is pretty acceptable, and having all together and "synchronized" is such a nice feature (phone, usb port, iDrive, wheel controls). Also, integrating the radio in the panel is not easy. You sometimes find adaptors that can help, but they not always manufacture for all the models.
Not to mention using half of the trunk for the sub(s) and amplifiers or the power consumption that you are adding to the electrical system

I realy hope you get a great sound out of your system but (PLEASE DON'T BE OFFENDED), honestly I don't think you can get a better sound with that system. (I'm just making an "informed guess") .

Alpines rock. I have always had Alpines. (not an Empeg, but better than anything stock). Using converters to keep the original head unit never works as it should, even though there are systems that are supposed to

I wonder how the subs will sound when installed in the original boxes...


Good luck and let us now what happened.

There are lots of things in here I'd like to address. First, I agree overall with your assessment on adding aftermarket equipment to cars like the BMW. The cars nowadays are getting less and less installer friendly. The kits that Metra put out are mostly cheap plastic. I've been doing car audio for a number of years for competition and for business.

I've been researching the stereo angle on the M3 for a while and thanks to people like Technic (a resident expert), I've found for myself a very acceptable plan for my system. The factory head unit for the hifi system doesn't need line output converters because the head unit puts out a line level signal to the amplifier. You simply cut the wire from the harness and solder in some RCA leads and those go directly to the Alpine amp. Last night I started mounting that amp and I removed the factory amp and it fit right in the same location. It weighs a pound or two more than the OEM amp. Power consumption on the electrical system I think will be more, but not unacceptably more. The Alpine is a Class D amplifier which extremely efficient. The fuse on the amp is about 60 amps, I haven't checked on the max current draw yet but it will not be more than 60 amps. To add to that, I have so much more power headroom than the premium or hifi systems. My RMS power (not max) is 4x105 + 408 watts on the sub. The OEM premium system puts out 825 watts max, which is around 412 watts RMS if they are using peak to peak rating. Power isn't everything though, but it helps!

The OEM subs for both the premium and hifi system were designed by Earthquake. I spoke to their engineers and verified that. The Earthquake subs are virtual drop-in replacements and the guy that helped design the BMW subwoofer told me the SWS subs are a lot better. I've used the SWS subs in my other cars with good results. So at the minimum, it is an upgrade over the stock subs. There are many others who have done this upgrade and noticed a huge improvement, like here. Weight wise, maybe we gain another pound or two. These slim replacement subs are great, but the JL Stealthbox option will definitely sound better and add a bit more weight.

That's great that the premium system satisfies the majority of the owners that purchased it. For me, I have better options with that money. It all depends what you want. I look forward to the next generation of the headless systems that Alpine and Kenwood have (Vehicle hub and Portal) that will allow me to add HD radio, satellite, navigation, video/multimedia. The only thing holding me back right now is the lack of video capability on mass storage devices. To keep this all working with the BMW assist and bluetooth you can go aux-in. Or u can ditch the BMW assist and use bluetooth on the hub/portal system.

[Keto]

I've had a/d/s, JL audio and a good 12" sub in my E46 for a while. If there's a plug and play upgrade for even the premium sound subs that would tempt me. Of course, I haven't heard the premium sound yet really "dialed in," so we shall see.

[apw2607]

The one thing I have to say about the system that annoys me a bit, is you get it all set up nice for one piece of music/type and then play another and it sounds a bit off.

[drvai]

Originally Posted by badfish

The radio doesn't need to be replaced. I especially wanted to keep mine for the bluetooth and BMW assist to continue functioning nicely.

Well, if you keep the head unit, then you will have the advantage of the integration with the system. In my experience, keeping the original radio will never give you good results. You are basically amplifying the sound that you get from your radio (which you don't like). You can install competition equipment for thousands of dollars and won't get satisfied with the results.

I have done that... Actually it's really funnny, because each time I buy a car, I try to convince myself that I WILL be able to get a good sound from the OEM radio. EVERY SINGLE TIME I finish up with a new radio. I have tried all the strategies... equalizers included (top end).

You need a good system that processes the sound. Try connecting an ipod directly to the amp.... sounds horrible...

What I once did with my car is install a separate radio that worked separate from the OEM system. The other option is getting a device that actually completely flattens the sound signal, but I don't know how good they work and they don't come cheap.

In theory you "can do" a lot, (I've been there), but I after you install the equipment, you realize you can't escape from the inevitable... new head unit.

Maybe I'm too picky, who knows.

Good luck with your project and please let us know what happened.

[Technic]

Originally Posted by drvai

Well, if you keep the head unit, then you will have the advantage of the integration with the system. In my experience, keeping the original radio will never give you good results. You are basically amplifying the sound that you get from your radio (which you don't like). You can install competition equipment for thousands of dollars and won't get satisfied with the results.

I have done that... Actually it's really funnny, because each time I buy a car, I try to convince myself that I WILL be able to get a good sound from the OEM radio. EVERY SINGLE TIME I finish up with a new radio. I have tried all the strategies... equalizers included (top end).

You need a good system that processes the sound. Try connecting an ipod directly to the amp.... sounds horrible...

What I once did with my car is install a separate radio that worked separate from the OEM system. The other option is getting a device that actually completely flattens the sound signal, but I don't know how good they work and they don't come cheap.

In theory you "can do" a lot, (I've been there), but I after you install the equipment, you realize you can't escape from the inevitable... new head unit.

Maybe I'm too picky, who knows.

Good luck with your project and please let us know what happened.

From the E46 on in the USA, all the signal processing/EQ -if any- has been done at the HiFi OEM amp. Which it is a great thing if the plan is to upgrade the OEM system with aftermarket equipment, as removing the OEM amp in fact flattens the OEM HU signal. The difference in the E9x HiFi application is that according to BMW itself, there is no processing/EQ done in the OEM amp. Only the DSP OEM amps (digital inputs) have processing done.

The BMW OEM HU are pretty good, much more now in the E9x because they are all Professional in the USA. In the E46 they used to be all Business in the USA, although there was a much better sounding Professional HU in the rest of the world (I used to have one).

So far, I have been very satisfied with the Audiocontrol DSP and line driver devices interfacing BMW and VW OEM HU units with aftermarket amps. It takes a long time to set them right for a wide range of music tastes, but once they are set they are excellent. I tried the 3SIXTY.2 and I was not as satisfied as I would liked it, not because of any sound quality issues but in the unit reliability itself as I went thru 3 of those suckers under warranty.