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      01-07-2010, 10:28 PM   #1
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M1 engine speculation

Will it be N54 with added Valvetronic and fixed hpfp?
Will it be N55 with valvetronic and second turbo added on, as rumors suggest?

The truth is somewhere in between.
N55 with 2 small turbos, rather than 1 big one would get my vote.
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      01-08-2010, 02:09 AM   #2
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The' N55's come with valvetronic and a single [twin-scroll] turbocharger...

http://paultan.org/2009/05/27/new-bm...tronic-engine/


http://www.autoevolution.com/news/th...gine-7096.html


http://blogs.insideline.com/straight...55-engine.html
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      01-08-2010, 03:00 AM   #3
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I have to be honest and say that I am a little bit disappointed with the potential engine choice. One of the reason that M cars have been special is every M model had its dedicated, distinct M division designed engine, not shared with the regular BMWs until the release of X6M and X5M. Almost a copout or cutting the corner. Something about tweaking an existing turbo engine for more power that doesn't sit right with the M philosophy, almost AMG like now.
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      01-08-2010, 04:15 AM   #4
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There is a real strong chance it might be powered by a high revving turbocharged 4-banger of sorts

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Originally Posted by Robert View Post
I have to be honest and say that I am a little bit disappointed with the potential engine choice. One of the reason that M cars have been special is every M model had its dedicated, distinct M division designed engine, not shared with the regular BMWs until the release of X6M and X5M. Almost a copout or cutting the corner. Something about tweaking an existing turbo engine for more power that doesn't sit right with the M philosophy, almost AMG like now.
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      01-08-2010, 05:37 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by red-sauerkraut View Post
There is a real strong chance it might be powered by a high revving turbocharged 4-banger of sorts
That would be cool but I doubt it. BMW are still going to build on their strong heritage with straight 6 cylinder engines, particularly with an M model. I think they would struggle to convince people (particularly Americans) to pay M prices for a 4 cylinder car regardless of how good it actually was.
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      01-08-2010, 06:52 AM   #6
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Agreed. Over the holidays I was in talking to my sales advisor...just BSing car talk. I was inferring how great it would be if M would reincarnate the E30 M3 and bring back a 4 pot turbo beast in the potential M1. He shook his head and said the same thing. It would be an impossible sell to the general American public. BMW and 4 cylinders just don't go hand-in-hand here in the states. At least not anymore.
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      01-08-2010, 06:52 AM   #7
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I wish they would stop messing around and just put the x6m engine in the new M(1). Now a twin turbo V8 in or little cars, that would be fun.
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      01-08-2010, 06:52 AM   #8
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I personally think they will use a modified version of the N55. However there has been mention of a high revving 4 cylinder turbo. Might as well buy a Subaru STi if that is the case!!

I would only be seriously tempted to upgrade from a 'ordinary' N54 135i if they offered the high-revving V8 from the M3. They really need to put this engine in a more compact car imho. The new 201x M3 will eventually get an even more powerful engine (to distance itself from the M1) so this could work.

Eitherway, the engine in the M1 has to be deserving of 'M' status; ie: it has to have balls and its own unique 'M' character....and make all the right sounds!
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      01-08-2010, 07:45 AM   #9
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Scott26 has mentioned that the Tii WILL make a production return with the F20 1 series. It makes total sense that it will have a 4 cylinder turbo, much moreso than an M variant of the 1 series.
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      01-08-2010, 08:02 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by larryn View Post
Scott26 has mentioned that the Tii WILL make a production return with the F20 1 series. It makes total sense that it will have a 4 cylinder turbo, much moreso than an M variant of the 1 series.
Agreed, 4 cylinder Tii yes, 4 cylinder M1 no.
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      01-08-2010, 08:41 AM   #11
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I am no engineer, but is it possible to have a second turbo operating at above 5.5k on the N55? You'll have your Twin Scroll for normal driving, but as it pass 4.5 k, the 2nd turbo kicks in?

Just looking at the design of the S54 engine, it is really an evolution of the I6 - more displacement, and wider range of valtronic adjustments. I don't see how this would be different to adjusting the turbos, especially if they adjust both the turbos and play with the valve timing.
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      01-08-2010, 08:48 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123D-M View Post
That would be cool but I doubt it. BMW are still going to build on their strong heritage with straight 6 cylinder engines, particularly with an M model. I think they would struggle to convince people (particularly Americans) to pay M prices for a 4 cylinder car regardless of how good it actually was.
According to SCOTT26, who always seems to be right, this ///M1 is the grand finale of the E82 platform, which will make use of a I6, one that is turbocharged. Not the N54 either....

Future models of the 1 series are rumored to be getting 4 cylinder engines, one of which could be for the next ///M1, in the form of a TT 4 cylinder engine pushing out over 300 BHP....
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      01-08-2010, 09:10 AM   #13
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As I said before,

take the N55 and add:

Stronger, higher flow valve-train (8000RPM rev limit)
ONE twin-scroll Garrett GTX 4294R (or 4202R if it won't choke the engine at redline, smaller turbo would be more responsive)http://www.turbobygarrett.com/turbob...ochargers.html

Then watch as the reviews and praise for the outstanding engine and suspension roll in.
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      01-08-2010, 09:27 AM   #14
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This car needs to have AT LEAST 350Hp to be relevant, and it's not going to come from a 4 cylinder.

A sequential turbo system, as mentioned above might be the answer. IMO the M1 needs to have a better top end than the N54, and for a twin turbo setup that means increasing the size of the turbos, which also increases spool times. With a sequential system you can have a small turbo to build good low end torque with good throttle response and highway power, and a larger turbo that comes online in the upper RPMs to extend the useable powerband all the way to the redline.

The rumors have mentioned a twin turbo version of the N55, but they've also said that it would be substantially different from the existing setup. That makes me think it's going to be a sequential system as is being used on some of the diesels.
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      01-08-2010, 12:56 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 123D-M View Post
That would be cool but I doubt it. BMW are still going to build on their strong heritage with straight 6 cylinder engines, particularly with an M model. I think they would struggle to convince people (particularly Americans) to pay M prices for a 4 cylinder car regardless of how good it actually was.


hmmmm. The original E30 M3 was a 4-cyl, the E36 was kind of an afterthought, and havent all the 5-series and up been V8's? Maybe Im mistaken, but I don't see that the 6-cyl is really any sort of a pedigree with ///M.

I recall in reading about the N55 that it will not be the performance-oriented engine. It has a redline of 5800RPM, IIRC from reading about it. There are a few good threads if you search the board, that give some more decent insight.

I would imagine that if it is NOT, say, a highly boosted, high-rpm 4cyl that shaves major weight while adding power... that it will be a DCT or higher-torque handling transmission tied to a boosted N54 that is constantly in "overbost mode" or whatever they call it on the z4isdrive3.5whatever...
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      01-08-2010, 01:23 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
hmmmm. The original E30 M3 was a 4-cyl, the E36 was kind of an afterthought, and havent all the 5-series and up been V8's? Maybe Im mistaken, but I don't see that the 6-cyl is really any sort of a pedigree with ///M..
Maybe in America all you ever get are the V8 models for whatever reason, probably because your petrol is so cheap, but in Europe BMW are famous for their straight 6 engines. You seem to have forgotten the E46 M3 which in my opinion is still the best, and I wouldn't call the E36 M3 an afterthought by any means.

Then of course there is the 635CSi, the original E28 M5 (which incidentally used the same I6 out of the M1), the E34 M5, the original E24 M6, etc etc.

And that is without mentioning any of the fantastic recent I6 interpretations: the 130i, the 135i, 335i, 535i, 635i, 328i, 530i, 730i..... Z4 M coupe and roadster (almost forgot them). Z1 also had an I6, Z3 (ok that was a bit crap but the engine was still good...).

So yes, I think you might be mistaken. The inline 6 cylinder engine has enormous pedigree at BMW.
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      01-08-2010, 01:25 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JHZR2 View Post
hmmmm. The original E30 M3 was a 4-cyl, the E36 was kind of an afterthought, and havent all the 5-series and up been V8's? Maybe Im mistaken, but I don't see that the 6-cyl is really any sort of a pedigree with ///M.
5 series cars to this day have always had an I-6 as the base engine (as least in the US. I think other markets could get 4 cylinders as well). The first two generations of the M5 (E28 and E34) also had an I-6 before the V8 E39 M5. The original E24 M6 also used the same I-6 as the E28 M5.

EDIT: Looks like 123D-M beat me to it.
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      01-08-2010, 01:29 PM   #18
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Just a tiny bit passionate about BMW's history...
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      01-08-2010, 01:52 PM   #19
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Just a tiny bit passionate about BMW's history...
I can tell. Nothing wrong with that.
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      01-08-2010, 02:10 PM   #20
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From Wikipedia article on "straight six engines":

BMW introduced its first straight 6-cylinder engine in 1933. It developed straight-six engines for the post-World War II era by adding two cylinders to its M10 four-cylinder design. In 1968, it introduced a M30 straight-six design with the same 30-degree slant, overhead camshaft layout, and 100 mm bore spacing as the four. It originally intended to follow up with a V8 engine line in the early 1970s, but when the 1973 oil crisis hit, BMW canceled its V8 plans and concentrated on refining and enlarging its straight-six lineup.[11] These included a smaller straight-six in 2.0 and 2.3 litres (120 and 140 cu in) displacements (the BMW M20), versions of the larger BMW M30 up to 3.8 L (230 cu in) (the S38B38); and beginning in 1983, a series of M21 straight-six diesel engines. In 1986, BMW introduced the M70 V12 which was essentially two 2.5 L (150 cu in) straight-sixes on the same crankshaft. In the mid-90's, they produced a series of straight-6's based on the M50 architecture, the ultimate of which was the 330-360 hp S54, used up to 2006. Currently, a straight-six is offered in the BMW 1 Series, BMW 3 Series, BMW 5 Series, BMW 6 Series, BMW 7 Series (Euro models), BMW X3, BMW X5, BMW X6, and BMW Z4.

I'd totally forgotten the small capacity straight sixes used in the 3 series in the 80's.
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      01-08-2010, 02:19 PM   #21
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If BMW wants to give the N55 the Frankenstein treatment its A-Okay with me.
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      01-08-2010, 02:26 PM   #22
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Seeing BMWs current trend of using turbo engines (new 5,GT,7 series, X5M, X6M), I def. think it will be a turbo'd engine. The most logical would be the N55 variant with a larger twinscroll turbo or could even be the same engine but with increased boost. BMW is on a Turbo binge and i personally think its cool, although their N/A engines will always be remembered
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