[Bubbles]

My impression of the ISTA/P.32.1 update.

Post-turbo replacement coupled with a move from pre-29.2 to 30.0.2, my car developed a pronounced burble. After the ISTA/P.32.1 update, the volume of the burble is nearly muted. It mirrors the sound with Dinan Classic. The car is very quiet at idle and cruising speeds, however at WOT the turbos really whine all the way through the power band. An unbelievable symphony of sheer grit and torque. Oh, the torque is back!

My observed fuel mileage has increased 3 mpg at cruising speeds nearly offsetting the mpg loss I experienced post-turbo replacement.

I have instant response from 1300k rpm through the power band. I can let off the throttle let the rpms drop and wait, then punch it and the spool just happens, no delay--no wait---just instant-on! The response is identical or better than I remember with the original pre-29.2 progman. I've got better Rev. 3 turbos in place so I suspect it's a bit better than the original response.

Start-up is now very quiet and sedate. No more waking the neighbors.

IMO this is a must-update for those of sporting and ECU MD80 with 29.2 or later progman. Nothing will compensate you for the time lost with 29.2, but this update is a start on your road to recovery.

Scream, push, claw to get this update.

If your car was updated correctly, you will immediately notice the change in performance. This is a black and white performance change. If you are unsure, you didn't get it!

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

My impression of the P2.31.0 update.

Post-turbo replacement coupled with a move from pre-29.2 to 30.0.2, my car developed a pronounced burble. After the P2.31.0 update, the volume of the burble is nearly muted. It mirrors the sound with Dinan Classic. The car is very quiet at idle and cruising speeds, however at WOT the turbos really whine all the way through the power band. An unbelievable symphony of sheer grit and torque. Oh, the torque is back!

My observed fuel mileage has increased 3 mpg at cruising speeds nearly offsetting the mpg loss I experience post-turbo replacement.

I have instant response from 1300k rpm through the power band. I can let off the throttle let the rpms drop and wait, then punch it and the spool just happens, no delay--no wait---just instant-on! The response is identical or better than I remember with the original pre-29.2 progman. I've got better Rev. 3 turbos in place so I suspect it's a bit better than the original response.

Start-up is now very quiet and sedate. No more waking the neighbors.

IMO this is a must-update for those of sporting and ECU MD80 with 29.2 or later progman. Nothing will compensate you for the time lost with 29.2, but this update is a start on your road to recovery.

Scream, push, claw to get this update.

If your car was updated correctly, you will immediately notice the change in performance. This is a black and white performance change. If you are unsure, you didn't get it!

Good for you I have msd80 with pre 29.2(Feb 08 Build date) on my 135i. Never had a sw update from my dealer. Does that mean I don't need to visit my boring dealer who ships out my ecu to Dinan all the time?

[vase330]

Buubles: I feel vindicated... I said the 29.1 crap affected Dinan absolutely. I was told at the dealer I was dreaming and it didn't, shouldn't, but again my butt dyno said it absolutely did. So I got v32.1 and completely stock minus my (Dinan stage II + v29.1) tune back to back, the new stock v32.1 was unmistakably more responsive. How could that be? Unless ofcourse Dinan was affected by the laggy software? Infact the car was smoother, sounded better, and only when you got into boost did the prior Dinan Stage II tune's obvious power advantage show. I learned way back in during the Placebo effect to trust my butt dyno. It was spot on then. Now what is this P2.31 you talk about? Same as v32.1 I suppose?

Nice thanks for the review. I support the conclusion. I have nothing but good things to say about this update. Our car (the ones we test drove and bought) are baaaaaaaaaack!

[vase330]

Originally Posted by coolguy

Good for you I have msd80 with pre 29.2(Feb 08 Build date) on my 135i. Never had a sw update from my dealer. Does that mean I don't need to visit my boring dealer who ships out my ecu to Dinan all the time?

Yes you do. And like I said, its (the update) more responsive compared to your tune now even without your Dinan tune back on. Put the tune on top of that, you just got a whole new car.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by vase330

Buubles: I feel vindicated... I said the 29.1 crap affected Dinan absolutely. I was told at the dealer I was dreaming and it didn't, shouldn't, but again my butt dyno said it absolutely did. So I got v32.1 and completely stock minus my (Dinan stage II + v29.1) tune back to back, the new stock v32.1 was unmistakably more responsive. How could that be? Unless ofcourse Dinan was affected by the laggy software? Infact the car was smoother, sounded better, and only when you got into boost did the prior Dinan Stage II tune's obvious power advantage show. I learned way back in during the Placebo effect to trust my butt dyno. It was spot on then. Now what is this P2.31 you talk about? Same as v32.1 I suppose?

Nice thanks for the review. I support the conclusion. I have nothing but good things to say about this update. Our car (the ones we test drove and bought) are baaaaaaaaaack!

Oops, I flipped the numbers Vase, I had more issues with my ride than just lag but those are now resolved. The throttle response is better than ever with the added psi!

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by vase330

Yes you do. And like I said, its (the update) more responsive compared to your tune now even without your Dinan tune back on. Put the tune on top of that, you just got a whole new car.

I am a little confused. Didn't u n bubbles say that u guys got ur old car back with 32.1? I have msd80(feb08 build) and no 29.2. So don't i have non laggy sw and improved waste gates coz of the build? Thanks!

[vase330]

Maybe and maybe not. It depends on what you have. If you have 30 or 31, you still have a little lag left in there that 32 seems to eliminate. 32.1 is very linear yet just as lively as the older 25-26 range was and a bonus is the response is very good. Actually the best I have felt with BMW software so far. The performance they detuned from the old 27.x on seems to have been added back in too. Too bad it took BMW the better part of a year to come to their senses admit the issue and fix it.

[coolguy]

Originally Posted by vase330

Maybe and maybe not. It depends on what you have. If you have 30 or 31, you still have a little lag left in there that 32 seems to eliminate. 32.1 is very linear yet just as lively as the older 25-26 range was and a bonus is the response is very good. Actually the best I have felt with BMW software so far. The performance they detuned from the old 27.x on seems to have been added back in too. Too bad it took BMW the better part of a year to come to their senses admit the issue and fix it.

Kewl. Thx. any probs with getting the dinan flash on top of 32.1 at the dealer?

[vase330]

Not that I know off; But, I'd wait a bit till they come out with an update that is based on 32.1 instead of an older version. Car is pretty nice stock (got no top end as you can expect though) so the tune withdrawal symptoms are not nearly as bad as they used to be...

[meyergru]

vase330 is right - I hope you guys know that Dinan actually replaces the DME software?

There is no "on top" of anything - other than that the Dinan software gets updated from time to time, too. It is based on the most-current BMW release once in a while. Matter-of-fact, Dinan even marketed one version as having no lag because of the fact that is was based on v28.x.

To my recollection, DInan have told customers that it will take a few week before their basis gets updated to ISTA/P 2.32.1.

[Panoz]

Thats a good thing...ISTA/P 2.32.1 looks like "its doing the job". How do you know we are talking about a "lag-fix"version? As far as I'm concerned there is not officialy confirmed that there are two versions of 32.1

I guess that the the pre 29.2 guys would preferably keep their firmware as it is for now...at least until we have the 32.1 case clarified officialy from BMW

[M3EST]

I want back my torque.Hey version 2.32.1 im coming to you.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Panoz

Thats a good thing...ISTA/P 2.32.1 looks like "its doing the job". How do you know we are talking about a "lag-fix"version? As far as I'm concerned there is not officialy confirmed that there are two versions of 32.1

I guess that the the pre 29.2 guys would preferably keep their firmware as it is for now...at least until we have the 32.1 case clarified officialy from BMW

Lag-fix and louder exhaust note are two sides of the same thing. The louder sound and lag came from the open wastegates at idle introduced with v29.2.

Matter-of-fact, there are three "variants" in release v32.1. One for MSD81, which is a different DME hardware and two for MSD80 (one rattle-fix for pre-09/07 cars with old wastegates and one lag-fix for cars with improved wastegates). I don't know whether the "variants" are distinct firmware images or mere settings.

There is no proof, but if you read closely, you can see that in the BMW NA press statement:

1) "In an effort to address specific noise concerns, BMW updated the turbocharged engine software on 335i/xi and 535i/xi models built from June 2006 through March 2008. The updated software causes a small amount of increased "turbocharger lag" under certain circumstances and, while not substantial, the lag may be perceptible to the most sensitive BMW drivers."

2) "X6, 135i, and 3 Series/5 Series vehicles from March 2008 production onward are not affected."

3) "Release of the new software to restore the original turbocharger response is planned for January 2009, and it will be available for vehicles produced from September 2007 through March 2008 when they are brought to an authorized BMW center for a repair which requires a programming update."

4) "Clients with vehicles produced from June 2006 through September 2007 may request installation of the January 2009 software update. Clients who get this update should understand that there is a possibility of slightly increased engine noise levels under certain circumstances."

That is BMWese for:

1) BMW had old wastegates fitted, which caused noise after a while of wear. BMW fitted better, improved wastegates, from 09/07. Instead of replacing the old ones, they took the road of a software fix (v29.2) to keep wastegates open - thus eliminating rattles but causing lag and more exhaust noise.

2) BMW says, MSD81 cars are not affected. As we know, March 2008 was the first date when MSD81 got fitted. These cars "got no problems" as none had old wastegates fitted, so there was no need for a "rattle-fix". The release notes of ISTA/P 2.32.1 explicitely refer to MSD80 lag only. As to problems or not with MSD81: there are different convictions. But BMW says there is no fix for that since there is no problem.

3) BMW tells us, cars between 09/07 and 03/08 are automatically retrofitted the original software behaviour (aka "lag-fix") when they get an update with >= v32.1. We know that those cars still have MSD80 but already improved wastegates and thus were given the "rattle-fix" v29.2 in vain. This is the thing that ISTA/P 2.32.1 really addresses.

4) BMW says, cars between 06/06 and 09/07 (MSD80) can request that "lag-fix" too, but at a risk of more exhaust noise. We know those cars have MSD80 and old wastegates, so per default, even with ISTA/P 2.32.1, they will still get the "rattle fix" - although the one included in versions >= v31.1 are WAY better than v29.2 or v30.x. However, if you want full pre-v29.2 wastegate behaviour, you may request the "lag-fix" (aka "turbo retrofit" aka "wastegate retrofit").

Do your really believe they will tell you THAT? Officially? Well, we waited since 03/08 for a fix of the "rattle-fix" v29.2. I bet you can wait FOREVER for a clarification of this topic.

[Panoz]

good stuff...you are a reall guru.
I wonder how you know all these stuff. Working for BMW maybe?

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Panoz

good stuff...you are a reall guru.
I wonder how you know all these stuff. Working for BMW maybe?

No, but I have that problem since May 08 and followed the 3600+ posting long thread here very thoroughly. All that information is in there, even with proof for most of the claims I made. Also, I live in munich, my dealer is right beneath the factory, so he has a more direct access to BMW R&D. Thus, my car was a test-mule to find and eliminate this problem.

[Bubbles]

Originally Posted by meyergru

vase330 is right - I hope you guys know that Dinan actually replaces the DME software?

There is no "on top" of anything - other than that the Dinan software gets updated from time to time, too. It is based on the most-current BMW release once in a while. Matter-of-fact, Dinan even marketed one version as having no lag because of the fact that is was based on v28.x.

To my recollection, DInan have told customers that it will take a few week before their basis gets updated to ISTA/P 2.32.1.

Actually, I now believe Dinan does not control wastegate behavior but limited to boost targets and merely piggybacks the BMW software. I'm reflashed with presumbly "old software" but the performance characterics have changed completely (I'm impatient and would get reflashed with the "new" flash if there was an issue). My turbos have never whined or spooled so quickly not even with flash classic. The interior of the car is now very loud at WOT. This is definately not an update for non-enthusiast, I now understand why BMW does its best to deter update requests. An everyday driver would prefer the quiet non-mechnaical sound of a detuned N54. I now have tremendous torque from 1500k to 5800k traction control lights up constantly on a dry road.

This update will kill those fuel pumps teetering on the edge of failure.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Actually, I now believe Dinan does not control wastegate behavior but limited to boost targets and merely piggybacks the BMW software. I'm reflashed with presumbly "old software" but the performance characterics have changed completely (I'm impatient and would get reflashed with the "new" flash if there was an issue).

A "piggyback" is a physical device that is used to alter input and output signals to the original DME. JB3, Procede and AA Xede tunes are of this type. With those, a software change of the original DME can have an impact.

Flash tunes in contrast alter the original software itself. That is, it is replaced. Tunes of this type are Dinan and Noelle, for example. Some of those tunes may adjust only software settings of one type (like they don't change the wastegate behaviour). However, they are based on a specific version that is altered by the tuner. Thus, your tune is gone when you get an update by BMW - UNLESS the tune is re-done afterwards by your dealer.

The notion of "on top" in one of the former postings simply does not fit with Flash tunes unless Dinan comes forward with a new version that is based on ISTA/P 2.32.1 (which it is not yet, as far as I know). In other words, it does not matter which version you have on your car before you Dinan it. You get another DME software by Dinan, period.

It becomes very clear that this is the case when Dinan themselves marketed their tune as having no lag here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151246

This is from Steve.breen@dinan himself, so you don't have to believe me on this one.

[Bubbles]

Meyerguru

I understand the what you are saying and understand the nature of flash vs. piggies, however I do not believe the Dinan flash alters anything regarding the wastegate behavior. Following my update to ISTA/P 2.32.1, I was reflashed with a "compatible" Dinan Flash. However, I have my suspicions that the Dinan Flash does not alter wastegate behavior (piggyback in my prior post should not be taken literally), otherwise the performance change would not have happened.

Originally Posted by meyergru

A "piggyback" is a physical device that is used to alter input and output signals to the original DME. JB3, Procede and AA Xede tunes are of this type. With those, a software change of the original DME can have an impact.

Flash tunes in contrast alter the original software itself. That is, it is replaced. Tunes of this type are Dinan and Noelle, for example. Some of those tunes may adjust only software settings of one type (like they don't change the wastegate behaviour). However, they are based on a specific version that is altered by the tuner. Thus, your tune is gone when you get an update by BMW - UNLESS the tune is re-done afterwards by your dealer.

The notion of "on top" in one of the former postings simply does not fit with Flash tunes unless Dinan comes forward with a new version that is based on ISTA/P 2.32.1 (which it is not yet, as far as I know). In other words, it does not matter which version you have on your car before you Dinan it. You get another DME software by Dinan, period.

It becomes very clear that this is the case when Dinan themselves marketed their tune as having no lag here:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=151246

This is from Steve.breen@dinan himself, so you don't have to believe me on this one.

[meyergru]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Meyerguru

I understand the what you are saying and understand the nature of flash vs. piggies, however I do not believe the Dinan flash alters anything regarding the wastegate behavior. Following my update to ISTA/P 2.32.1, I was reflashed with a "compatible" Dinan Flash. However, I have mine suspicions that the Dinan Flash does not alter wastegate behavior (piggyback in my prior post should not be taken literally), otherwise the performance change would not have happened.

I know of flash tuners that actually take the time to modify whatever current software they find on the car, but Dinan themselves said in their posting:

As we've said before, it does not matter if you have 29.2 or any other version in your engine control unit because the Dinan software download also starts by erasing the stock program, and hence there is no BMW data in the ECU afterwards to affect the operation of the car. No update from BMW will have any lasting effect on your car’s operation after Dinan programs it because the stock data is erased. Dinan periodically updates using both BMW updates and Dinan updates and combines them into a new program so after BMW updates your car and the Dinan software is put back in you get the latest version.

This leaves not much room for interpretation, does it?

Maybe the former Dinan flash you had was based on some v30.x and the one you got was based on v31.1? There is a huge difference between them without a tune as well...

[vase330]

Originally Posted by Bubbles

Meyerguru

I understand the what you are saying and understand the nature of flash vs. piggies, however I do not believe the Dinan flash alters anything regarding the wastegate behavior. Following my update to ISTA/P 2.32.1, I was reflashed with a "compatible" Dinan Flash. However, I have my suspicions that the Dinan Flash does not alter wastegate behavior (piggyback in my prior post should not be taken literally), otherwise the performance change would not have happened.

See post #9. I told the guy to wait till Dinan comes out with something based on this. Why? Because 32.1 felt (to me at least) more response than the version of Dinan I had on there prior to this flash. Believe it or not, it is better down low too, but step on it, the fun ends too quickly where Dinan would be going strong due to more boost obviously.

Bubbles paints an imagery here, that is spot on. Ignore the language, he might be grammatically challenged for all we know, but the man speaks the trufh!

OT: I went to a friends house for a mini-mini meet. Had a chance to drive some tunes. The experience was eye opening. I will post some objective review tomorrow when I have time, but Wow! What a weekend!! Just got back from long drive I am tired. Stay tuned.

[Dan335i]

What version came on a 7 07 build?

[Quisp]

Accordoing to a post on an different thread by someone who spoke to Dinan there is a new version of the Dinan flash coming out in mid February. It will be based on this new software update from BMW. I am definitely looking forward to getting both updated and seeing how the car runs.