Is the 1 series the better 3?

ChrisK · 07-20-2007, 12:01 PM

Don't flame me if you own a 3

In my opinion...the new 1 series is what the current 3 should have been. In someways I am really shocked that BMW is making this move.

joelk · 07-20-2007, 12:05 PM

oh god is this thread gonna bring out the 335i lurkers.

to each their own but imho of course it is ... in every way that is important to me 135>3 AFAIK at this point in time.

ChrisK · 07-20-2007, 12:11 PM

LOL yeah I know. Thankfully I was once part of that group ('04 330ci)

Tijuana · 07-20-2007, 12:17 PM

Better for you, not better for everyone. For some people the 5 series is better, or maybe a Z4 or an X5. No car meets every need for every person.

Lips · 07-20-2007, 12:19 PM

I wouldn't say better than the 3, just more in line with what the 3 series used to be in terms of size. Does that make sense? Anyways, maybe BMW should have deemed the new 3 a 4 and the new 1 a 3...I don't kno.

ibeam81 · 07-20-2007, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lips

I wouldn't say better than the 3, just more in line with what the 3 series used to be in terms of size. Does that make sense?

It makes sense to me. In my mind the 1er is a closer successor to the 2002 and early 3 series than the E9x is. The current 3 is following a natural progession of getting bigger and more luxurious, but this has left a gap for a smaller BMW like the 1er. The 1er is a better small BMW than a E9x is, but the new 3 is still one of the best cars in the world (there's just more to love now). :wink:

Lips · 07-20-2007, 12:29 PM

haha, big cars need loving too.

BForbes · 07-20-2007, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lips

haha, big cars need loving too.

Haha!! Thats funny. But I wouldnt say the 1 is better than the 3. They are different cars designed to meet the need of different people. If it wasnt for the 3, there would be no 1. <-- theres one for you!!

Lips · 07-20-2007, 12:43 PM

One (1) for us indeed...

ChrisK · 07-20-2007, 12:46 PM

Yeah I'm not saying the 1 is better than the 3. I just think the 1 is the 3 of car-past

Lips · 07-20-2007, 12:48 PM

I agree with that statement completely, the 1 is what the 3 series once was. In todays society, especially the US, bigger is better when it comes to cars and it seems the 3 series has grown to meet those demands. This is not a bad thing, but it leaves the people who wanted a small sports car searching for something else...The 1!

larryn · 07-20-2007, 12:56 PM

I think the 1 series is brilliant marketing. Upsize existing brands over time, get people wishing for the 'old smaller model I used to remember'. Then insert a smaller series, all the while keeping your existing (and ever increasing) number of drivers.

3 > 1, in general, just like 5 > 3. It depends on what you are looking for though.

ChrisK · 07-20-2007, 01:03 PM

Here is a scary example: Take a look at the Toyota Camry and Corolla. Once upon a time, wasn't the Camry close in size to the current Corolla?

Taki · 07-20-2007, 01:26 PM

The 1 series coupe is about the same size as the E30 3 series. Same length, a couple inches taller and wider. (I think the 1 has a slightly shorter wheelbase as well.) Since the BMW I drove most and fell in love with is an E30 325, this suits me just fine.

I do think the current 3 series looks better, and if the price of a 135 optioned like I want is too close to a similar 335, I'll bump myself up to a 3.

Steve325xi · 07-20-2007, 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Taki

The 1 series coupe is about the same size as the E30 3 series. Same length, a couple inches taller and wider. (I think the 1 has a slightly shorter wheelbase as well.) Since the BMW I drove most and fell in love with is an E30 325, this suits me just fine.

I do think the current 3 series looks better, and if the price of a 135 optioned like I want is too close to a similar 335, I'll bump myself up to a 3.

This is exactly how I feel. Sure, I'd rather have the 335i coupe all things considered, but I'd be perfectly happy with the 135i if the price is right.

Robert · 07-20-2007, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Steve325xi

This is exactly how I feel. Sure, I'd rather have the 335i coupe all things considered, but I'd be perfectly happy with the 135i if the price is right.

Really? Why. If you present a strong enough case I will just get it now instead of waiting.

I am waiting for reviews to comment on the tossability of the 1, the strength of the 6 piston brakes, and the performance of the M suspension.

joelk · 07-20-2007, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robert

Really? Why. If you present a strong enough case I will just get it now instead of waiting.

because the number 3 is larger than the number 1? :biggrin:

it's gotta be a size or shape thing for some.

SCA · 07-20-2007, 01:55 PM

Unfortunately that is wishful thinking. The 3-Series will be better built and contain superior materials. The fact is that the 1-Series is to be the new entry level BMW and therefore corners will be cut to offer it at a lower price than a 3-Series.

I do agree that the 1 will be what the 3 used to be. The 3 is now where the 5 was.

Robert · 07-20-2007, 02:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TheUltimateDriver

Unfortunately that is wishful thinking. The 3-Series will be better built and contain superior materials. The fact is that the 1-Series is to be the new entry level BMW and therefore corners will be cut to offer it at a lower price than a 3-Series.

I do agree that the 1 will be what the 3 used to be. The 3 is now where the 5 was.

I am going to politely disagree with that statement. If the 135i is only 5k less than the 335i I am not sure how much of a degrade in quality BMW is willing to accept for a 40k out the door car. At that point all the buyers will flock to the 3 series.

BMW is trying to market to the 20 somethings and create a car that is more fun and involved to drive. Those with responsbilities or need the space will opt for the 3 or 5.

SCA · 07-20-2007, 02:16 PM

While I am excited about the 1-Series Coupe coming to the US and wanting it to succeed, ultimately pricing is what will make the 1er successful in the US. While many of us here want this model for the performance and handling that we are hoping it will offer, there are many out there that will simply purchase the 1er for the Roundel on the hood and if it is more affordable then a current 3-Series then this will only further open the door to those that previously could not afford an entry-level 3-Series. BTW, The entry-level 3-Series has always out sold the top-of-the-line model (non-M) by at least 5:1.

Below is a post from another board. I have to agree with what he has stated.

"Europe has seen this car for a couple of years already. and Europe is arguably the toughest car market in the world that also has the greatest powertrain diversity. and despite incredible taxes on larger displacement engines, CAR and Evo still test the 130i against cars such as the A3 and S3 and so forth.

....and the overwhelming read that i get on the 1er is that Europe isn't all that impressed. okay? and let me say that Europe and the British magazines have been pretty accurate about most of the BMW lineup over the years.

they'll mostly always choose the e60m5 over the e63m6; they hated the z3, they're lukewarm on the z4 and they think the e90 is one of the best luxury 4 doors around. i really cannot disagree with any of these sentiments.

so it's hard for me to ignore the ennui Europe and the UK have toward the 1er. maybe it's all about economics and simply put, the 1er is just too expensive compared to the galaxy of excellent small cars they have over there (the most competitive segment).

but again, what does that say? that the 1er cannot win on BMW's usual M.O. of being pricey but worth the extra money spent? secondly, they can only control the cost so much....what i foresee is the x3/x5 proposition where i always scratch my head and wonder who buys the x3 because it's so expensive and priced so closely to the x5 that i wonder why they didn't just get the x5 3.0 and thereby get a vehicle built with far better materials and more technology built-in as standard equipment?"

larryn · 07-20-2007, 02:25 PM

Curious.. what do you mean by "Those with responsibilities"?

Regarding the 'superior/inferior' materials comments, I think the 1er will definitely use less exotic material, like aluminum suspension bit or plastic fenders, which obviously translates to the higher than expected weight. Also, the 1er uses 'Boston' leather, which isn't as nice as the 'Dakota' leather used in the 3er and 5er, or nicer yet 'Nappa' leather used in the M3, or top of the line 'Nasca' leather in the 7er.

There are also grades of vinyl, which I wouldn't be surprised if BMW saved money on the 1er with as well.

I'm certainly not saying the the 1 series will be a POS, but BMW knows how to upscale models. I would expect nothing less between the 1er and 3er.

joelk · 07-20-2007, 02:59 PM

just curious because i have no idea:

what's the difference between boston and dakota leather? assuming there is one, is it stiffness? tactile sense?

and i assume the "people w/ responsibilities" comment meant people who have jobs where they have to shuttle people around ... or have kids or balls&chains where it's verboten. at least i hope thats what was meant.

07-20-2007, 12:01 PM	#1
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	Is the 1 series the better 3? Don't flame me if you own a 3 In my opinion...the new 1 series is what the current 3 should have been. In someways I am really shocked that BMW is making this move. __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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07-20-2007, 12:05 PM	#2
joelk Lieutenant Colonel 37 Rep 1,680 Posts Drives: Space Gray E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (0)	oh god is this thread gonna bring out the 335i lurkers. to each their own but imho of course it is ... in every way that is important to me 135>3 AFAIK at this point in time.
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07-20-2007, 12:11 PM	#3
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	LOL yeah I know. Thankfully I was once part of that group ('04 330ci) __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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07-20-2007, 12:17 PM	#4
Tijuana Second Lieutenant 5 Rep 217 Posts Drives: 535xi Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Indianapolis iTrader: (0)	Better for you, not better for everyone. For some people the 5 series is better, or maybe a Z4 or an X5. No car meets every need for every person.
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07-20-2007, 12:19 PM	#5
Lips First Lieutenant 27 Rep 362 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2007 iTrader: (0)	I wouldn't say better than the 3, just more in line with what the 3 series used to be in terms of size. Does that make sense? Anyways, maybe BMW should have deemed the new 3 a 4 and the new 1 a 3...I don't kno. __________________ 2005 G35 Coupe Lakeshore Slate 2007 Mazda MX-5 Galaxy Grey
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07-20-2007, 12:29 PM	#7
Lips First Lieutenant 27 Rep 362 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2007 iTrader: (0)	haha, big cars need loving too. __________________ 2005 G35 Coupe Lakeshore Slate 2007 Mazda MX-5 Galaxy Grey
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07-20-2007, 12:43 PM	#9
Lips First Lieutenant 27 Rep 362 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2007 iTrader: (0)	One (1) for us indeed... __________________ 2005 G35 Coupe Lakeshore Slate 2007 Mazda MX-5 Galaxy Grey
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07-20-2007, 12:46 PM	#10
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	Yeah I'm not saying the 1 is better than the 3. I just think the 1 is the 3 of car-past __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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07-20-2007, 12:48 PM	#11
Lips First Lieutenant 27 Rep 362 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jul 2007 iTrader: (0)	I agree with that statement completely, the 1 is what the 3 series once was. In todays society, especially the US, bigger is better when it comes to cars and it seems the 3 series has grown to meet those demands. This is not a bad thing, but it leaves the people who wanted a small sports car searching for something else...The 1! __________________ 2005 G35 Coupe Lakeshore Slate 2007 Mazda MX-5 Galaxy Grey
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07-20-2007, 12:56 PM	#12
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	I think the 1 series is brilliant marketing. Upsize existing brands over time, get people wishing for the 'old smaller model I used to remember'. Then insert a smaller series, all the while keeping your existing (and ever increasing) number of drivers. 3 > 1, in general, just like 5 > 3. It depends on what you are looking for though.
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07-20-2007, 01:03 PM	#13
ChrisK Major General 4449 Rep 7,594 Posts Drives: '19 M2C Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Chicagoland iTrader: (7) Garage List 2019 BMW M2C [7.00] 2015 Porsche Macan S [0.00]	Here is a scary example: Take a look at the Toyota Camry and Corolla. Once upon a time, wasn't the Camry close in size to the current Corolla? __________________ www.ReTuneTheDeTune.com 2019 M2 Competition (Sunset Orange)
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07-20-2007, 01:26 PM	#14
Taki Private First Class 17 Rep 164 Posts Drives: 2019 M2 Competition Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: MD, USA iTrader: (0)	The 1 series coupe is about the same size as the E30 3 series. Same length, a couple inches taller and wider. (I think the 1 has a slightly shorter wheelbase as well.) Since the BMW I drove most and fell in love with is an E30 325, this suits me just fine. I do think the current 3 series looks better, and if the price of a 135 optioned like I want is too close to a similar 335, I'll bump myself up to a 3.
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07-20-2007, 01:55 PM	#18
SCA Brigadier General 565 Rep 3,742 Posts Drives: Multiple BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 🇺🇸 iTrader: (0)	Unfortunately that is wishful thinking. The 3-Series will be better built and contain superior materials. The fact is that the 1-Series is to be the new entry level BMW and therefore corners will be cut to offer it at a lower price than a 3-Series. I do agree that the 1 will be what the 3 used to be. The 3 is now where the 5 was.
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07-20-2007, 02:16 PM	#20
SCA Brigadier General 565 Rep 3,742 Posts Drives: Multiple BMWs Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: 🇺🇸 iTrader: (0)	While I am excited about the 1-Series Coupe coming to the US and wanting it to succeed, ultimately pricing is what will make the 1er successful in the US. While many of us here want this model for the performance and handling that we are hoping it will offer, there are many out there that will simply purchase the 1er for the Roundel on the hood and if it is more affordable then a current 3-Series then this will only further open the door to those that previously could not afford an entry-level 3-Series. BTW, The entry-level 3-Series has always out sold the top-of-the-line model (non-M) by at least 5:1. Below is a post from another board. I have to agree with what he has stated. "Europe has seen this car for a couple of years already. and Europe is arguably the toughest car market in the world that also has the greatest powertrain diversity. and despite incredible taxes on larger displacement engines, CAR and Evo still test the 130i against cars such as the A3 and S3 and so forth. ....and the overwhelming read that i get on the 1er is that Europe isn't all that impressed. okay? and let me say that Europe and the British magazines have been pretty accurate about most of the BMW lineup over the years. they'll mostly always choose the e60m5 over the e63m6; they hated the z3, they're lukewarm on the z4 and they think the e90 is one of the best luxury 4 doors around. i really cannot disagree with any of these sentiments. so it's hard for me to ignore the ennui Europe and the UK have toward the 1er. maybe it's all about economics and simply put, the 1er is just too expensive compared to the galaxy of excellent small cars they have over there (the most competitive segment). but again, what does that say? that the 1er cannot win on BMW's usual M.O. of being pricey but worth the extra money spent? secondly, they can only control the cost so much....what i foresee is the x3/x5 proposition where i always scratch my head and wonder who buys the x3 because it's so expensive and priced so closely to the x5 that i wonder why they didn't just get the x5 3.0 and thereby get a vehicle built with far better materials and more technology built-in as standard equipment?"
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07-20-2007, 02:25 PM	#21
larryn Lieutenant General 2148 Rep 10,176 Posts Drives: '97 332ti, '21 X5 45e, '16 GT4 Join Date: May 2005 Location: Seattle iTrader: (2)	Curious.. what do you mean by "Those with responsibilities"? Regarding the 'superior/inferior' materials comments, I think the 1er will definitely use less exotic material, like aluminum suspension bit or plastic fenders, which obviously translates to the higher than expected weight. Also, the 1er uses 'Boston' leather, which isn't as nice as the 'Dakota' leather used in the 3er and 5er, or nicer yet 'Nappa' leather used in the M3, or top of the line 'Nasca' leather in the 7er. There are also grades of vinyl, which I wouldn't be surprised if BMW saved money on the 1er with as well. I'm certainly not saying the the 1 series will be a POS, but BMW knows how to upscale models. I would expect nothing less between the 1er and 3er.
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07-20-2007, 02:59 PM	#22
joelk Lieutenant Colonel 37 Rep 1,680 Posts Drives: Space Gray E90 M3 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Atlanta iTrader: (0)	just curious because i have no idea: what's the difference between boston and dakota leather? assuming there is one, is it stiffness? tactile sense? and i assume the "people w/ responsibilities" comment meant people who have jobs where they have to shuttle people around ... or have kids or balls&chains where it's verboten. at least i hope thats what was meant.
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