How sucessful is the 1er coupe as a follow up to the orignal 02?

Deutsch · 06-29-2007, 01:16 AM

There's no doubt that the 1er model range traces it's roots back to the original 2002, but up until now the 1er has only been available in hatch form, so for some the connection has been a little vague, now a coupe with strong visual ties to the 02 has come into being. Already I can think of endless comparisons to make between the two cars, but I'm less concerned with aesthetics and more concerned with the the tangible aspects (handling, performance, reliability/longevity). The 1er most certainly seems like the least complicated new BMW, but probably overwhelmingly so next to the 02, which is a bit unfair because both cars come from two completely different era's where consumers have very different needs, and technology more advanced. So it's a bit of a trick question, because there's only so much we know at the present, and I'd guess that there are only less than a handful of us that have actually driven the 1er and the original 02 to know the differences and the similarities, and ultimately how the 1er proves as the 21st century follow up to the original 02. I'd assume that press drives won't be for another couple of months to know how the coupe drives, but given the rest of the core 1er model range has been proven, one could, and should assume the 1er coupe has been designed to take things up a notch.

Brookside · 06-29-2007, 08:23 AM

Good question.
My own feeling of it is that both address the desire in the automobile world to have small, sporty, premium...and both, personify those aspects in their own time.

I would say that the 1-er is the more revolutionary car because it cuts back against a decade or more of BMW's corporate aesthetic, which seems to just make their cars bigger and heavier with each successive model.

The 1-er goes against the grain of that mind-set, and frankly the moment is overdue - not merely as an answer to the "bigger is better" quotient but also as a counter to U.S. consumer-culture trends that has gone on a fat binge of super-size meals, and soul-less energy wasting McMansions.

What I think BMW would be wise to do is explore variants on the 1-er that flesh out latent signifiers embedded in the concept of going "small" and linking that up with "premium" beyond the sporty nature of the coupe.

02cruzer · 06-29-2007, 09:48 AM

Next year I'll be able to let you know when I go test drive a 1 coupe and then get back in my 02 to go home and wait for another year to get my 1-er.

I do know one thing, it will be easier to steer the 1 with its power steering.

spudw · 06-29-2007, 10:02 AM

I hope they keep the 1er simple, light and sports-oriented. Only then will it keep in touch with what the 2002 meant in its time.

Like a broken record, I always refer back to the Miata. But it's a success story based on corporate restraint and holding focus on a core concept: a simple lightweight roadster that hearkens back to a bygone era. While the Miata (now MX-5) has evolved, it has never strayed far from the now 18-year-old original. It remains true to the original concept and Mazda has resisted letting it bloat significantly beyond its original proportions. Were I to buy a 2007 Miata, it would still feel like my 1995, only better.

I hope BMW does the same with the 1er. It can be just as iconoic for the premium compact sports coupe/sedan as the Miata has been for the roadster. And I hope in two decades time we can buy a BMW that still celebrates what a sports coupe/sedan should be.

bruiserk18 · 06-29-2007, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spudwest

I hope they keep the 1er simple, light and sports-oriented. Only then will it keep in touch with what the 2002 meant in its time.

Like a broken record, I always refer back to the Miata. But it's a success story based on corporate restraint and holding focus on a core concept: a simple lightweight roadster that hearkens back to a bygone era. While the Miata (now MX-5) has evolved, it has never strayed far from the now 18-year-old original. It remains true to the original concept and Mazda has resisted letting it bloat significantly beyond its original proportions. Were I to buy a 2007 Miata, it would still feel like my 1995, only better.

I hope BMW does the same with the 1er. It can be just as iconoic for the premium compact sports coupe/sedan as the Miata has been for the roadster. And I hope in two decades time we can buy a BMW that still celebrates what a sports coupe/sedan should be.

It's a perfect example though spudwest. My father has a '96 Miata that I still rank in the top 3 of fun cars to drive. We recently test drove a '07 and Mazda has not strayed from the original idea, it just does everything the '96 does but a bit better. The Miata has an intangible "fun factor" that 11 years later the MX-5 still retains. BMW has the opportunity to do the same with 1er, and if they stay true will sell a massive number of these cars.

FYI...I'll be ordering the 135i because I can't resist!

larry lawless · 06-29-2007, 06:10 PM

I know the 1er is based off the 2002 and that its a great car but i hope they also add a but load of e30 m3 into it because i love my e30 me and can't wait to drive it back to back with the 1er. Cause proportionally the 1er is closer to the size of the e30 m3. And if u ask anyone who has driven a e30 m3 they will tell you it was awesome.

TMK001 · 06-29-2007, 10:14 PM

It certainly looks exciting, but 35 years of automotive engineering and refinement is certainly going to make it quite a different experience to the 2002 that I know and love. I dont expect the 135 to be as raw (obviously!) but I expect it to have great dynamics. I am sure it will be great fun.

RWD, high HP engine output, low weight (well kinda) and modern technology... it will make for a great little car in Australia to mix it with the big Aussie built cars that everyone knows and loves that make me yawn.

Todd

WolfsburgerMitFries · 06-30-2007, 07:56 AM

OK you know what, I've been thinking about it and all new 1 series are coming with a 3.0 liter engine to the USA. Your only choice is twin turbo or normally aspirated. So instead of all this ballyhoo trying to tie the 1 series to the 2002, why would you not want to tie it to the 3.0CSi? You could have 128i=3.0CS and 135i=3.0CSi

Deutsch · 06-30-2007, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WolfsburgerMitFries

So instead of all this ballyhoo trying to tie the 1 series to the 2002, why would you not want to tie it to the 3.0CSi? You could have 128i=3.0CS and 135i=3.0CSi

Because it's not. The only reason we're getting the bigger engines is because our market demands it, not because BMW thinks the 1er is the spiritual successor to the 3.0 CS. Far from it.

SCOTT26 · 06-30-2007, 04:52 PM

Remember though here you are seeing the all dancing . high performance 135i Coupe with M-Sport packet . You are still to see the (European) models aswell that do not feature M-Packet such as the 123d and 120d ,

Next year (Europe) the Coupe will receive a performance four cylinder engine taken from the WTCC inspired E90 320Si to become the 120 Si , and later still you will see a turbo four cylinder engine also.

All this before and after the M1.

danp · 06-30-2007, 05:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SCOTT26

Remember though here you are seeing the all dancing . high performance 135i Coupe with M-Sport packet . You are still to see the (European) models aswell that do not feature M-Packet such as the 123d and 120d ,

Next year (Europe) the Coupe will receive a performance four cylinder engine taken from the WTCC inspired E90 320Si to become the 120 Si , and later still you will see a turbo four cylinder engine also.

All this before and after the M1.

Here's hoping...

The 6pot 1er (especially the 135i) is too heavy to be the spiritual succesor to the E30, let along the 2002. Yes cars have got heavier but 1560kg EU1 is a disgrace for a company touting "efficient dynamics".

Make me a 7500rpm, 250bhp, 1250kg (unladen) 1er.

larry lawless · 06-30-2007, 06:20 PM

1250kg 1er dude your crazy, this is 2007 they could never make this car that light are we forgetting that this is still going to be a premium car for today's standards. This car is supposed to work with everyone, the hardcore, the everyday guy, and the person who just wants to get from A to B. So it has to have all the stuff in it they all would need. And that stuff is going to have some weight, but thats not enough weight to mess up the dynamics of the car. I mean really this car wasn't meant to compete with an lotus exige or no where near that.

This car is definitely the spiritual successor of the e30 and 2002, weight has nothing to do with it. Its all about the feel. The 135i can be a whole lot heavier than the e30 and 2002, but if it feels quick and agile and nimble then you won't even recognize the extra weight. Perfect example the M5, it weighs 4050lbs US. But people who have driven them say it feels like its a 4 door F430..........................

:respekt:

danp · 06-30-2007, 06:48 PM

The 120i 3 door is 1250kg unladen (1365kg EU1), so it's not unrealistic! The same weight as my Z4 3.0i.

Cars don't *have* to get heavier in this day and age - the Z4 was lighter than the Z3 it replaced.

The Toyota Aygo (city car) weights 790kg - which is what city cars like the Peugeot 205, VW Golf (Rabbit) mk1 weighed 25 / 30 years ago ! (i.e. before airbags, pedestrian safety, impact bars, catalysts etc etc)

I'm looking forward to see Gordon Murray's (i.e. the McLaren F1 man) plans for a new lightweight city car, it will hopefully make a lot of the current best sellers look very fat and stupid.

larry lawless · 06-30-2007, 07:07 PM

I think i may have come across wrong or didn't convey it into words right, but what i meant was that just because its heavier dosen't mean it won't be fun and agile to drive.

I know the 3 door hatch is lighter but is also smaller and packed with less stuff(like it dosen't have the electronically controlled diff).

I am also looking forward to see Murray's designs and plans. I hope its out there and different like the F1 was.

krassanova · 06-30-2007, 07:20 PM

I'm having a hard time seeing the 1-Coupe as a decendant of the 2002. The R50/53 MINI is a great example of revamping an icon...the 1-Coupe is not. Let's face it, with the flame design, interior elements, etc...it's a miniature 3-Series.

Again, I'm not trying to put down the current design, but a throwback to the 2002 it's not. I would consider buying the 135 for what it is...a twin-turbo beast of an engine in a smaller (read faster) package. I'm looking forward to more pics and more info as it comes out.

WolfsburgerMitFries · 06-30-2007, 07:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krassanova

I'm having a hard time seeing the 1-Coupe as a decendant of the 2002.

You know what, I'll agree with that. The 1 series is much more of a modern day take on the E30, not the 2002.

Deutsch · 06-30-2007, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by krassanova

I'm having a hard time seeing the 1-Coupe as a decendant of the 2002. The R50/53 MINI is a great example of revamping an icon...the 1-Coupe is not. Let's face it, with the flame design, interior elements, etc...it's a miniature 3-Series.

Again, I'm not trying to put down the current design, but a throwback to the 2002 it's not. I would consider buying the 135 for what it is...a twin-turbo beast of an engine in a smaller (read faster) package. I'm looking forward to more pics and more info as it comes out.

I respect your opinion, you're supporting your ideas with reason instead of arrogance.

At the same time the 1er was created by BMW as a follow up to the compact BMW, which started with the 02(as most choose to remember, and BMW). However I'm beginning to think that it is perhaps healthier to view the 1er coupe as an all new compact BMW (for U.S. consumption) rather than a spiritual successor to the original 02. I think looking at it the other way around is short changing the 1er coupe for what it is, a new compact BMW, otherwise we start holding the new car to old standards that simply don't exist today.

larry lawless · 06-30-2007, 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deutsch

At the same time the 1er was created by BMW as a follow up to the compact BMW, which started with the 02(as most choose to remember, and BMW). However I'm beginning to think that it is perhaps healthier to view the 1er coupe as an all new compact BMW (for U.S. consumption) rather than a spiritual successor to the original 02. I think looking at it the other way around is short changing the 1er coupe for what it is, a new compact BMW, otherwise we start holding the new car to old standards that simply don't exist today.

Dam man you hit it on the needle thats what i have been trying to get across!

TMK001 · 07-01-2007, 01:06 AM

I see it is a "spiritual successor to the 2002" just as I see the current 3 series or even the M6, these cars, like BMW's take on the new MINI all have the same principles of mass produced automobile manufacturing to appeal to such a wide variety of consumers that made the 2002 the success it was...

If you watch the history of BMW (search it on youtube or whatever) you will see the heads of BMW NA say that much of the formula cooked up for the 2002 is still in use today... I guess, like someone has said, by making the car smaller, it is a shift back towards the dimensions of a 2002, but hardly a retro design ala the new MINI, Ford GT, Mustang, etc.

I am excited about the new 135.

larry lawless · 07-01-2007, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMK001

I see it is a "spiritual successor to the 2002" just as I see the current 3 series or even the M6, these cars, like BMW's take on the new MINI all have the same principles of mass produced automobile manufacturing to appeal to such a wide variety of consumers that made the 2002 the success it was...

If you watch the history of BMW (search it on youtube or whatever) you will see the heads of BMW NA say that much of the formula cooked up for the 2002 is still in use today... I guess, like someone has said, by making the car smaller, it is a shift back towards the dimensions of a 2002, but hardly a retro design ala the new MINI, Ford GT, Mustang, etc.

I am excited about the new 135.

I see what your saying too, and you've got a point:respekt:

TMK001 · 07-01-2007, 01:25 AM

Hahaha, no problems... I am looking forward to sitting the "spiritual successor of the 2002" next to this:

larry lawless · 07-01-2007, 01:31 AM

OKAY.........i would like to see pics of that.
But i also wanna park the 1er next something too.
My e30

06-29-2007, 01:16 AM	#1
Deutsch Second Lieutenant 50 Rep 249 Posts Drives: Join Date: Nov 2006 iTrader: (0)	How sucessful is the 1er coupe as a follow up to the orignal 02? There's no doubt that the 1er model range traces it's roots back to the original 2002, but up until now the 1er has only been available in hatch form, so for some the connection has been a little vague, now a coupe with strong visual ties to the 02 has come into being. Already I can think of endless comparisons to make between the two cars, but I'm less concerned with aesthetics and more concerned with the the tangible aspects (handling, performance, reliability/longevity). The 1er most certainly seems like the least complicated new BMW, but probably overwhelmingly so next to the 02, which is a bit unfair because both cars come from two completely different era's where consumers have very different needs, and technology more advanced. So it's a bit of a trick question, because there's only so much we know at the present, and I'd guess that there are only less than a handful of us that have actually driven the 1er and the original 02 to know the differences and the similarities, and ultimately how the 1er proves as the 21st century follow up to the original 02. I'd assume that press drives won't be for another couple of months to know how the coupe drives, but given the rest of the core 1er model range has been proven, one could, and should assume the 1er coupe has been designed to take things up a notch.
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06-29-2007, 08:23 AM	#2
Brookside Major 244 Rep 1,136 Posts Drives: 2016 228i M-Sport Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: KCMO iTrader: (0)	Good question. My own feeling of it is that both address the desire in the automobile world to have small, sporty, premium...and both, personify those aspects in their own time. I would say that the 1-er is the more revolutionary car because it cuts back against a decade or more of BMW's corporate aesthetic, which seems to just make their cars bigger and heavier with each successive model. The 1-er goes against the grain of that mind-set, and frankly the moment is overdue - not merely as an answer to the "bigger is better" quotient but also as a counter to U.S. consumer-culture trends that has gone on a fat binge of super-size meals, and soul-less energy wasting McMansions. What I think BMW would be wise to do is explore variants on the 1-er that flesh out latent signifiers embedded in the concept of going "small" and linking that up with "premium" beyond the sporty nature of the coupe.
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06-29-2007, 09:48 AM	#3
02cruzer Enlisted Member 4 Rep 35 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2007 iTrader: (0)	Next year I'll be able to let you know when I go test drive a 1 coupe and then get back in my 02 to go home and wait for another year to get my 1-er. I do know one thing, it will be easier to steer the 1 with its power steering.
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06-29-2007, 10:02 AM	#4
spudw Major 70 Rep 1,305 Posts Drives: 2009 128i Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Ottawa iTrader: (0)	I hope they keep the 1er simple, light and sports-oriented. Only then will it keep in touch with what the 2002 meant in its time. Like a broken record, I always refer back to the Miata. But it's a success story based on corporate restraint and holding focus on a core concept: a simple lightweight roadster that hearkens back to a bygone era. While the Miata (now MX-5) has evolved, it has never strayed far from the now 18-year-old original. It remains true to the original concept and Mazda has resisted letting it bloat significantly beyond its original proportions. Were I to buy a 2007 Miata, it would still feel like my 1995, only better. I hope BMW does the same with the 1er. It can be just as iconoic for the premium compact sports coupe/sedan as the Miata has been for the roadster. And I hope in two decades time we can buy a BMW that still celebrates what a sports coupe/sedan should be.
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06-29-2007, 06:10 PM	#6
larry lawless excellence 3 Rep 188 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2007 iTrader: (0)	I know the 1er is based off the 2002 and that its a great car but i hope they also add a but load of e30 m3 into it because i love my e30 me and can't wait to drive it back to back with the 1er. Cause proportionally the 1er is closer to the size of the e30 m3. And if u ask anyone who has driven a e30 m3 they will tell you it was awesome. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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06-29-2007, 10:14 PM	#7
TMK001 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 41 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2007 iTrader: (0)	It certainly looks exciting, but 35 years of automotive engineering and refinement is certainly going to make it quite a different experience to the 2002 that I know and love. I dont expect the 135 to be as raw (obviously!) but I expect it to have great dynamics. I am sure it will be great fun. RWD, high HP engine output, low weight (well kinda) and modern technology... it will make for a great little car in Australia to mix it with the big Aussie built cars that everyone knows and loves that make me yawn. Todd
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06-30-2007, 07:56 AM	#8
WolfsburgerMitFries Lieutenant 12 Rep 445 Posts Drives: BMW 3er Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Lexington, KY iTrader: (0)	OK you know what, I've been thinking about it and all new 1 series are coming with a 3.0 liter engine to the USA. Your only choice is twin turbo or normally aspirated. So instead of all this ballyhoo trying to tie the 1 series to the 2002, why would you not want to tie it to the 3.0CSi? You could have 128i=3.0CS and 135i=3.0CSi
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06-30-2007, 04:52 PM	#10
SCOTT26 Major General 5306 Rep 5,824 Posts Drives: A big F-off German Truck. Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: WORLDWIDE iTrader: (0)	Remember though here you are seeing the all dancing . high performance 135i Coupe with M-Sport packet . You are still to see the (European) models aswell that do not feature M-Packet such as the 123d and 120d , Next year (Europe) the Coupe will receive a performance four cylinder engine taken from the WTCC inspired E90 320Si to become the 120 Si , and later still you will see a turbo four cylinder engine also. All this before and after the M1.
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06-30-2007, 06:20 PM	#12
larry lawless excellence 3 Rep 188 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2007 iTrader: (0)	1250kg 1er dude your crazy, this is 2007 they could never make this car that light are we forgetting that this is still going to be a premium car for today's standards. This car is supposed to work with everyone, the hardcore, the everyday guy, and the person who just wants to get from A to B. So it has to have all the stuff in it they all would need. And that stuff is going to have some weight, but thats not enough weight to mess up the dynamics of the car. I mean really this car wasn't meant to compete with an lotus exige or no where near that. This car is definitely the spiritual successor of the e30 and 2002, weight has nothing to do with it. Its all about the feel. The 135i can be a whole lot heavier than the e30 and 2002, but if it feels quick and agile and nimble then you won't even recognize the extra weight. Perfect example the M5, it weighs 4050lbs US. But people who have driven them say it feels like its a 4 door F430.......................... :respekt: __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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06-30-2007, 06:48 PM	#13
danp Private 6 Rep 78 Posts Drives: Join Date: Mar 2007 iTrader: (0)	The 120i 3 door is 1250kg unladen (1365kg EU1), so it's not unrealistic! The same weight as my Z4 3.0i. Cars don't have to get heavier in this day and age - the Z4 was lighter than the Z3 it replaced. The Toyota Aygo (city car) weights 790kg - which is what city cars like the Peugeot 205, VW Golf (Rabbit) mk1 weighed 25 / 30 years ago ! (i.e. before airbags, pedestrian safety, impact bars, catalysts etc etc) I'm looking forward to see Gordon Murray's (i.e. the McLaren F1 man) plans for a new lightweight city car, it will hopefully make a lot of the current best sellers look very fat and stupid.
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06-30-2007, 07:07 PM	#14
larry lawless excellence 3 Rep 188 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2007 iTrader: (0)	I think i may have come across wrong or didn't convey it into words right, but what i meant was that just because its heavier dosen't mean it won't be fun and agile to drive. I know the 3 door hatch is lighter but is also smaller and packed with less stuff(like it dosen't have the electronically controlled diff). I am also looking forward to see Murray's designs and plans. I hope its out there and different like the F1 was. __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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06-30-2007, 07:20 PM	#15
krassanova Private First Class 2 Rep 156 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2007 iTrader: (0)	I'm having a hard time seeing the 1-Coupe as a decendant of the 2002. The R50/53 MINI is a great example of revamping an icon...the 1-Coupe is not. Let's face it, with the flame design, interior elements, etc...it's a miniature 3-Series. Again, I'm not trying to put down the current design, but a throwback to the 2002 it's not. I would consider buying the 135 for what it is...a twin-turbo beast of an engine in a smaller (read faster) package. I'm looking forward to more pics and more info as it comes out.
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07-01-2007, 01:06 AM	#19
TMK001 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 41 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2007 iTrader: (0)	I see it is a "spiritual successor to the 2002" just as I see the current 3 series or even the M6, these cars, like BMW's take on the new MINI all have the same principles of mass produced automobile manufacturing to appeal to such a wide variety of consumers that made the 2002 the success it was... If you watch the history of BMW (search it on youtube or whatever) you will see the heads of BMW NA say that much of the formula cooked up for the 2002 is still in use today... I guess, like someone has said, by making the car smaller, it is a shift back towards the dimensions of a 2002, but hardly a retro design ala the new MINI, Ford GT, Mustang, etc. I am excited about the new 135.
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07-01-2007, 01:25 AM	#21
TMK001 Enlisted Member 0 Rep 41 Posts Drives: Join Date: Jun 2007 iTrader: (0)	Hahaha, no problems... I am looking forward to sitting the "spiritual successor of the 2002" next to this:
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07-01-2007, 01:31 AM	#22
larry lawless excellence 3 Rep 188 Posts Drives: Join Date: Apr 2007 iTrader: (0)	OKAY.........i would like to see pics of that. But i also wanna park the 1er next something too. My e30 Attached Images __________________ [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
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