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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Who is taking his 335 to the track??



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      01-21-2009, 04:31 PM   #1
bbbsti ltd
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Who is taking his 335 to the track??

I wonder how are the 335's holding up at the track (road course)?

How are the engines holding up at the track? Any incidents of broken ringlands of fatal engine failures on stock or just slightly modified cars?

I am thinking on trading in my 2007 STi for a BMW 335, I would like to take the car maybe twice a year to track events.

I cant imagine repairing a 335 engine damaged for knock or detonation because of extreme or hard use at the track.


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      01-21-2009, 04:51 PM   #2
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many people take their 335's to tracks, i havent heard of any problems at all.
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      01-21-2009, 04:54 PM   #3
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If you are really fast you might get 'limp mode' on a hot day of extended tracking even with the stock oil cooler.

Some people are concerned that the 335 runs oil hot, but 335 is too new to be able to determine whether it makes a difference

If you are only going twice a year to DEs I suspect the 335 will be just fine
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      01-21-2009, 05:13 PM   #4
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early 335's did not have the oil cooler. A friend of mine with a '07 reported it only took about 6-7 laps for his oil temps to become "uncomfortably hot". He has since ordered the factory oil cooler kit, which comes as standard equipment on newer cars.

check out the Track/Autocross forum, you might get some better feedback on the issue.
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      01-21-2009, 06:41 PM   #5
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no problems so far after all track days...drive it there...drive it on the track...drive it home....gas mileage is severly decreased though....lol...
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      01-21-2009, 08:00 PM   #6
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I am wondering if guys who track their cars lease or own them? I cannot imagine myself abusing my own car or risking wrecking it..., which is a big PITA with the insurance , unless your money grow on a tree of course.
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      01-21-2009, 10:49 PM   #7
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My 07 335i sedan has been to the track 4 times, and the problem is; Hot Oil, even with a factory Oil Cooler.
First time, no OC, overheated in 70 degree weather at Sears Point. OEM OC installed, oil overheat, a.k.a. lip mode at Thunderhill, though it was 100 degress out. Back at Sears point, about 70, hot, but no limp mode. I slowed when it got to hot for a lap. Last week at Laguna, 75 degress, it was hot again, but no limp mode, came close a couple of times.
Running hot keeps me from totally pushing the car.

I have a VKwerk OC to install, but due to an oil and transmission leak spotted while attmepting to install the OC. I had the shop stop and then I had to take it to the dealer and miss my opertunity before my track day.

At Laguna Seca, I did get a ride in the Dinan 135 with a Dinan OC and it never got above the 260? degree spot. the VK should be almost as good, as it is the same core, but no extra duct.
One other smaller issue - no LSD. Cornering you get one wheel spining it is not good (I installed an LSD just this month). This is even more evident in Autocrossing.

Bottom line; for a track day you have to have a Factory OC.
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      01-21-2009, 11:43 PM   #8
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50+ track days, tuned the whole time. I'm an instructor, so not exactly driving it like a grandma.

Stock oil cooler got me to 290-295 oil temps, VK motorwerks cooler keeps me at the 270 range.

Engine hasn't blown up yet.
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      01-22-2009, 12:01 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue335i View Post
My 07 335i sedan has been to the track 4 times, and the problem is; Hot Oil, even with a factory Oil Cooler.
First time, no OC, overheated in 70 degree weather at Sears Point. OEM OC installed, oil overheat, a.k.a. lip mode at Thunderhill, though it was 100 degress out. Back at Sears point, about 70, hot, but no limp mode. I slowed when it got to hot for a lap. Last week at Laguna, 75 degress, it was hot again, but no limp mode, came close a couple of times.
Running hot keeps me from totally pushing the car.

I have a VKwerk OC to install, but due to an oil and transmission leak spotted while attmepting to install the OC. I had the shop stop and then I had to take it to the dealer and miss my opertunity before my track day.

At Laguna Seca, I did get a ride in the Dinan 135 with a Dinan OC and it never got above the 260? degree spot. the VK should be almost as good, as it is the same core, but no extra duct.
One other smaller issue - no LSD. Cornering you get one wheel spining it is not good (I installed an LSD just this month). This is even more evident in Autocrossing.

Bottom line; for a track day you have to have a Factory OC.

I'm wagering you have an Auto, yes? If so, more than likely your limp modes were caused by excessive coolant temps and not excessive oil temps. That is not to say that 6MTs don't hit limp modes on the track occassionally too, but the Auto also relies on the stock cooling system. Upgrading the oil cooler may have helped a little, but I bet an Auxilliary auto trans cooler would have prevented your limp modes.
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      01-22-2009, 12:09 AM   #10
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      01-22-2009, 12:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
50+ track days, tuned the whole time. I'm an instructor, so not exactly driving it like a grandma.

Stock oil cooler got me to 290-295 oil temps, VK motorwerks cooler keeps me at the 270 range.

Engine hasn't blown up yet.
wow, after a good 20-30min of hard driving through the twisties my temps max at 260 barely... stock IC
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      01-22-2009, 12:25 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphantom View Post
wow, after a good 20-30min of hard driving through the twisties my temps max at 260 barely... stock IC
With all due respect, street use is NOTHING compared to track use. additionally, even with track use, if you're a beginner, you'll probably have no issues with heat.

See below

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=14
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      01-22-2009, 10:54 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
With all due respect, street use is NOTHING compared to track use. additionally, even with track use, if you're a beginner, you'll probably have no issues with heat.

See below

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showpo...8&postcount=14

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      01-22-2009, 11:03 AM   #14
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What is the warranty impact of taking the car to the track? That is what keeps me from it... if something happens, I don't want to lie and say the problem happened somewhere else. Thanks!
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      01-22-2009, 11:11 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rando View Post
What is the warranty impact of taking the car to the track? That is what keeps me from it... if something happens, I don't want to lie and say the problem happened somewhere else. Thanks!
I'm not sure of BMW NA's official stance, but I am quite sure if some component fails while tracking the car, and you let them know of this, they won't cover it as it will be considered abusing the car out of its intended purpose. (I think this has happened to a few M3 owners who then complained saying that even the brochures show the car on a track). If they don't know you tracked it, and they are dump, they might cover it under some premature wear clause.

If they know you are tracking, they will most likely not replace worn components like brakes etc.

And if you get into an accident, and BMW assist logs your position, most likely you are screwed with insurance, screwed with the track (you signed a waiver), and screwed with BMW.

I suggest you track your car only if you can accept the risks.
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      01-22-2009, 11:15 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbbsti ltd View Post
I wonder how are the 335's holding up at the track (road course)?

How are the engines holding up at the track? Any incidents of broken ringlands of fatal engine failures on stock or just slightly modified cars?

I am thinking on trading in my 2007 STi for a BMW 335, I would like to take the car maybe twice a year to track events.

I cant imagine repairing a 335 engine damaged for knock or detonation because of extreme or hard use at the track.


Thanks
At a track event I went to, I saw a non-sport 335i running (it was his last day on his lease ) when it was around 65 degrees outside and he had no limps.
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      01-22-2009, 02:56 PM   #17
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My track experience (first time - just getting the feel for things)
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=186387
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      01-22-2009, 03:56 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by darkphantom View Post
wow, after a good 20-30min of hard driving through the twisties my temps max at 260 barely... stock IC
drive harder?
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      01-23-2009, 07:14 AM   #19
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I went to NJMP in hot August last year with NJBMWCCA. We were a group of friends - 06' E90, 07' E92, 08' E92 with sport and cooler. There were also other E92's at the event also.

Only one guy approached and asked about limb mode. He had a 08'(or 07') car with sport and cooler, but he had problem.

We were not in the high level class, but we drove hard. The only thing we do is replace brake fluid and engine oil before the event. We run stock pads. We chased down E46M. We chased down Porsche C4 at PCA events. I haven't had a problem with E92. BMW is reliable, no worry.
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      01-23-2009, 08:24 AM   #20
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This is very YMMV. Some cars perform great see leftcoastman others not so well see myself/S4to335.

Luck of the draw.
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      01-23-2009, 09:12 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post


This is very YMMV. Some cars perform great see leftcoastman others not so well see myself/S4to335.

Luck of the draw.

Last week at Laguna Seca..I hit oil temps of 290 and backed off...it was only about 72 degrees at the time. I didnt have any limp modes or CELs.
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      01-23-2009, 10:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bubbles View Post


This is very YMMV. Some cars perform great see leftcoastman others not so well see myself/S4to335.

Luck of the draw.
Make no mistake - with stock OC, my car got hot as a biotch.

The ONLY time I have ever "heat limped" on a stock OC is at Miller, where you constantly go from mid triple digits to low corner speeds. So I was on boost like you've never seen.

With an upgraded oil cooler, that problem is now diminished. I believe there are only two choices out there now:

1) VK Motorwerks - $600? and is a pain to DIY, but can be done by your mechanic pretty easily.

2) Dinan - Same as above except $2,000.
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