[Joe-BMW33]

During the first 6 months of ownership I had to add two quarts of oil, one every three months. As we know, BMW says this is "normal".

At the 6 month mark, I had my indy perform an oil change and he recommended Liqui Moly LL01 5W-40 over the BMW Branded LL01 0W-30 that the dealer puts in. LL01 5W-40 is on the approved list for the N63TU2. I said sure and also did a Liqui Moly Flush and CeraTec treatment.

I had ZERO oil consumption over the next 6 months and just let him do the same thing again (minus the CeraTec). I know BMW's go to is the thin 0W-30 spec for improved MPG, but this stuff just burns up.

Just sharing my experience.

[edycol]

Stay away from that additive garbage! Why do you need flush? Do you want some deposits to clog your oil passages?

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by edycol

Stay away from that additive garbage! Why do you need flush? Do you want some deposits to clog your oil passages?

I disagree, Ceratec is great stuff. That's fine, purpose of the thread was thicker 5W-40 not burning up. Not about a flush.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

I disagree, Ceratec is great stuff. That's fine, purpose of the thread was thicker 5W-40 not burning up. Not about a flush.

40 weight is thicker than 30 when the engine is at normal operating temperature. Likely the extra thickness helps with burn off, but it also likely doesn't lubricate as well as thinner 30 weight.

Might not be a long term issue, but I doubt anyone can tell you with any certainty. Maybe a BMW engineer can.....

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by claykin

40 weight is thicker than 30 when the engine is at normal operating temperature. Likely the extra thickness helps with burn off, but it also likely doesn't lubricate as well as thinner 30 weight.

Might not be a long term issue, but I doubt anyone can tell you with any certainty. Maybe a BMW engineer can.....

Yeah, but then we go down the rat hole of lubrication of 30 vs 40. I personally feel cars shouldn't burn oil.

I'm no engineer lol 😂, I just change the oil a lot. That I know can't be a bad thing. 5W-40 is on the BMW list.

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Yeah, but then we go down the rat hole of lubrication of 30 vs 40. I personally feel cars shouldn't burn oil.

I'm no engineer lol 😂, I just change the oil a lot. That I know can't be a bad thing.

BMW has been fighting with the N63 throughout its life. With this engine there's no exact science. Sadly.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by claykin

BMW has been fighting with the N63 throughout its life. With this engine there's no exact science. Sadly.

Agreed, that's pretty much the story with a long list of BMW V8's, always chasing something. I had an engine swap with the Nikasil Ausili issue in my '93 7 series. Great original engine except US gas ate away at the block!

[claykin]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Agreed, that's pretty much the story with a long list of BMW V8's, always chasing something. I had an engine swap with the Nikasil Ausili issue in my '93 7 series. Great original engine except US gas ate away at the block!

One of the reasons I stick with their inline 6 engines

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by claykin

One of the reasons I stick with their inline 6 engines

Yeah, I get that. I'm a sucker for that nice clean effortless pull from zero of a V8 as well as the sound. I'm personally not worried about the N63TU2/3 getting me to 100k if I keep it that long.

[edycol]

OMG.
First of all, there is no such thing as difference between lubrication between 30 or 40 weight. BMW , as well as other manufacturers don't care about weight at 100c or Kinematic Viscosity at 100c (KV100). They care about High Temperature/High Shear (HTHS) which is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity. In case of LL01 which that Liqui Moly is, minimum HTHS is 3.5. LL01 can be both 5W30 or 5W40 as long as HTHS is minimum 3.5cP.
Now, that particular Liqui Moly (well, in general Liqui Moly) is mediocre oil. For example Mobil1 0W40 is known to be consumed by BMW engines, but it is absolutely state of the art oil that Liqui Moly doesn't have nor will have in their line up. Some oils get lost in engines, some don't. Some engines don't use certain oil, some oil get used.

I personally would stay from BMW TPT 0W30 bcs. it is LL01 FE oil, with minimum HTHS of 3. But their 5W30 stuff is definitely more robust than Liqui Moly 5W40. Reason is that it has to be minimum HTHS 3.5 but KV100 is actually very thin at 11cst. That means that they had to use extremely sophisticated base stocks to achieve that. Liqui Moly on other hand uses simple Group III base stocks and KV100 is actually very high for such HTHS.
There are numerous oils that I would use before Liqui Moly, all available in Wal Mart or Auto Zone, AAP.

As for Ceratec or whatever garbage, it is disturbing additive package of oil. Oils are carefully blended combination of base stocks, chain polymers (cheap oils=liqui moly) or star polymers (HPL, some Mobil1 and Castrol, some Shell/Pennzoil, Redline etc.) and additives. When you add additives you are disturbing that in unknown way. Are you increasing oxidation? Are you increasing evaporation loss (Noack)? You have no idea. And here is a thing: why Liqui Moly needs additives if their oils are good? Why Mobil1 doesn't sell you that? Or Castrol?
Stick to approved oils, and actually for $18 on Wal Mart web site you can get Wuaker State Euro 5W40 for $18 for 5qt which is repackaged Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, one of the best oils out there, approved for LL01.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by edycol

OMG.
First of all, there is no such thing as difference between lubrication between 30 or 40 weight. BMW , as well as other manufacturers don't care about weight at 100c or Kinematic Viscosity at 100c (KV100). They care about High Temperature/High Shear (HTHS) which is resistance of oil to temporary or permanent loss of viscosity. In case of LL01 which that Liqui Moly is, minimum HTHS is 3.5. LL01 can be both 5W30 or 5W40 as long as HTHS is minimum 3.5cP.
Now, that particular Liqui Moly (well, in general Liqui Moly) is mediocre oil. For example Mobil1 0W40 is known to be consumed by BMW engines, but it is absolutely state of the art oil that Liqui Moly doesn't have nor will have in their line up. Some oils get lost in engines, some don't. Some engines don't use certain oil, some oil get used.

I personally would stay from BMW TPT 0W30 bcs. it is LL01 FE oil, with minimum HTHS of 3. But their 5W30 stuff is definitely more robust than Liqui Moly 5W40. Reason is that it has to be minimum HTHS 3.5 but KV100 is actually very thin at 11cst. That means that they had to use extremely sophisticated base stocks to achieve that. Liqui Moly on other hand uses simple Group III base stocks and KV100 is actually very high for such HTHS.
There are numerous oils that I would use before Liqui Moly, all available in Wal Mart or Auto Zone, AAP.

As for Ceratec or whatever garbage, it is disturbing additive package of oil. Oils are carefully blended combination of base stocks, chain polymers (cheap oils=liqui moly) or star polymers (HPL, some Mobil1 and Castrol, some Shell/Pennzoil, Redline etc.) and additives. When you add additives you are disturbing that in unknown way. Are you increasing oxidation? Are you increasing evaporation loss (Noack)? You have no idea. And here is a thing: why Liqui Moly needs additives if their oils are good? Why Mobil1 doesn't sell you that? Or Castrol?
Stick to approved oils, and actually for $18 on Wal Mart web site you can get Wuaker State Euro 5W40 for $18 for 5qt which is repackaged Pennzoil Platinum Euro 5W40, one of the best oils out there, approved for LL01.

Definitely didn't want to turn this into one of those "oil debate threads" but I should have known better. It's truly amazing how many oil scientists own BMW's.

You are the first person (including other oil scientist owners) that I've heard say Liqui Moly was cheap or inadequate oil, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. Castrol makes BMW oil.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Definitely didn't want to turn this into one of those "oil debate threads" but I should have known better. It's truly amazing how many oil scientists own BMW's.

You are the first person (including other oil scientist owners) that I've heard say Liqui Moly was cheap or inadequate oil, so I'll take it with a grain of salt. Castrol makes BMW oil.

I worked on oil development and I do have experience with Liqu Moly.
I personally don't use Liqui Moly, and it is not price as I have in my BMW currently Motul 5W40 300V for track purposes.
As far as I am concerned, you can get extra virgin olive oil from Costco. I get all this Made in Germany that owners want so they feel warm around their heart. But don't forget that no German car manufacturer uses Liqui Moly. They use Pentosin products though.
Ravenol is good choice if you want something "special" and I would go Pentosin always over Liqui Moly.

Castrol is supplier since 02/2021 for BMW in North America. Rest of the world is still Shell.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by edycol

I worked on oil development and I do have experience with Liqu Moly.
I personally don't use Liqui Moly, and it is not price as I have in my BMW currently Motul 5W40 300V for track purposes.
As far as I am concerned, you can get extra virgin olive oil from Costco. I get all this Made in Germany that owners want so they feel warm around their heart. But don't forget that no German car manufacturer uses Liqui Moly. They use Pentosin products though.
Ravenol is good choice if you want something "special" and I would go Pentosin always over Liqui Moly.

Castrol is supplier since 02/2021 for BMW in North America. Rest of the world is still Shell.

Castrol was the supplier for BMW for North America for many, many decades. There was a short stint for Shell in NA and now back to Castrol.

[Boosted_8]

Originally Posted by edycol

I worked on oil development and I do have experience with Liqu Moly.
I personally don't use Liqui Moly, and it is not price as I have in my BMW currently Motul 5W40 300V for track purposes.
As far as I am concerned, you can get extra virgin olive oil from Costco. I get all this Made in Germany that owners want so they feel warm around their heart. But don't forget that no German car manufacturer uses Liqui Moly. They use Pentosin products though.
Ravenol is good choice if you want something "special" and I would go Pentosin always over Liqui Moly.

Castrol is supplier since 02/2021 for BMW in North America. Rest of the world is still Shell.

I used this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-197425-...ngine-oil.aspx in a N63 TU3 for my last interim change. Can you suggest anything better for similar money?

[Joe-BMW33]

The other thing about which brand car manufacturers choose to use and endorse, keep in mind this is a huge contract award for the suppliers. I am sure BMW puts this out to bid and just like everything else, lowest bidder wins. That's not to say that BMW doesn't define the requirements and the suppliers have to meet those requirements, but I think it is more about the quality of the suppliers and the price. In return, the supplier reaps the benefits of having their oil be exclusive at dealers which equals sales. The dealer is paying peanuts for Castrol. I bet Lqui Moly can't compete with the bigger boys.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Castrol was the supplier for BMW for North America for many, many decades. There was a short stint for Shell in NA and now back to Castrol.

Castrol was supplier in NA until 2014. The reason why BMW went back to Castrol seem to be of logistical nature. Shell is still supplier elsewhere which includes R&D.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

The other thing about which brand car manufacturers choose to use and endorse, keep in mind this is a huge contract award for the suppliers. I am sure BMW puts this out to bid and just like everything else, lowest bidder wins. That's not to say that BMW doesn't define the requirements and the suppliers have to meet those requirements, but I think it is more about the quality of the suppliers and the price. In return, the supplier reaps the benefits of having their oil be exclusive at dealers which equals sales. The dealer is paying peanuts for Castrol. I bet Lqui Moly can't compete with the bigger boys.

No, that doesn't have anything to do with it.
Big manufacturers use small suppliers all the time.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Boosted_8

I used this: https://www.opieoils.co.uk/p-197425-...ngine-oil.aspx in a N63 TU3 for my last interim change. Can you suggest anything better for similar money?

Good oil! We don't have that here.
But BMW TPT 5W30 made by Shell is superb product. Very few oils match that. I think in UK Shell is still supplier.

[Joe-BMW33]

Originally Posted by edycol

Castrol was supplier in NA until 2014. The reason why BMW went back to Castrol seem to be of logistical nature. Shell is still supplier elsewhere which includes R&D.

Logistically, seems the same could be true for Liqui Moly not being an ideal NA supplier in addition to them not being able to offer BMW or others competitive pricing.

[edycol]

Originally Posted by Joe-BMW33

Logistically, seems the same could be true for Liqui Moly not being an ideal NA supplier in addition to them not being able to offer BMW or others competitive pricing.

Liqui Moly will never be supplier bcs. quality. They will never match R&D of Shell, Castrol, Mobil1 etc. Most of "stuff" inside Liqui Moly is purchased from Mobil1, BP, Chevron etc. Additives are purchased from Afton Chemicals (Mobil1 company) or Lubrizol. Base stocks are purchased from Mobil1, Shell, BP, Chevron etc.
Liqui Moly blends that in the end. You can buy Liqui Moly wherever you want, but Mobil1 for example that you can buy in Wal Mart is still 5 times the product.
Liqui Moly is very popular oil in Europe, mostly bcs. shameless marketing through 90's. They have capacity. They are good product. But there is junior league and major league for a reason. When you buy Liqui Moly with approvals it is still ok. But, if you are going for something else, better if you want, it is actually more affordable and available down the street. Price of that LM doesn't justify quality. Quaker State that goes on Wal Mart web site for $18 is oil on par Mobil1 0W40, Castrol 0W40 wtc. Top of the line, Major League.