[Bill Cim]

Here's the question: WHEN? What's the latest scoop/poop on us getting a deisel E-90 or E-91?

[shragon]

don't get your hopes up.

[ward]

I'd buy one

[oilbelcher]

I am hoping by mid-2007. appears they are waiting for the US low-sulfer diesel fuel mandate to take effect late 2006, then make adjustments to exhaust/catylst systems to meet emission standards. they may also be watching the success of mercedes Bluetec diesel emission-control/exhaust system, which is introduced late this year on several models.

[ben1364]

Originally Posted by oilbelcher

I am hoping by mid-2007. appears they are waiting for the US low-sulfer diesel fuel mandate to take effect late 2006, then make adjustments to exhaust/catylst systems to meet emission standards. they may also be watching the success of mercedes Bluetec diesel emission-control/exhaust system, which is introduced late this year on several models.

This is my understanding as well.

[shragon]

Originally Posted by ward

I'd buy one

yep, so would i.

[KL2DC]

I'd so buy a 330d....I love diesels, lotsa torque and great mileage....

[Paul330d]

Apparently Mercedes are launching, or have already launched the new S Class 320CDI (that's the diesel) in the US, so I can't imagine BMW will wait long.

As a basic guide for those who have never driven a modern diesel engine, they 'feel' like the next cylinder size up, i.e. a straight six diesel feels like a V8 petrol, etc.

[voltron1011]

The problem is that the new restrictions on passenger cars go into affect about the same time as the low-sulphur fuel arrives. Basically, the rest of the US will adopt the current California emissions regs, which currently do not allow for new-car diesel sales. The only hope is the urea-injection systems...
Now, if BMW were smart they would first introduce the X5 and X3 diesels, since these vehicles are exempt from passenger car emissions.

[oilbelcher]

California always screws it up for the rest. All these great diesels sold in Europe can't be used in the US because a few states make stupid regulations. Companies often have a difficult time making a business case to invest in a new diesel engine product in the US when certain big markets won't accept -- thats why we only have the VW jetta and MB 320 CDI. They would both offer more if they could sell higher volume by entering all state markets. Must be all that constant sun that just warps the thinking...

[Bimmerista]

Originally Posted by ben1364

This is my understanding as well.

Right. However, it is unlikely that the first diesels in the US/Canada will be cars. The price differential will make them, at least initially, be more suite to introduction as high-end performance on the SUVs (x3/X5). If market acceptance is there the line-up can then be expanded. This is what I gave gleaned from interviews with the Panke in German mags.

[SCA]

I'd buy a BMW diesel. Word is that we (US) will see a diesel in the next X5. Hopefully it will trickle down from there.

[Bora20]

I would like to purchase a 330d touring in a year or so. Please allow me to BMW. I recently drove a 530 and want to purchase the BMW brand.

Too bad that MB is the only one bringing over the diesels right now. I am sure Audi will have them before BMW since, they are really just VW TDI engines.

[noflash]

Make mine 335dt.

[spots]

Any gains in fuel economy will be negated by the higher cost of diesel fuel, higher maintenance costs, emission devices that lower fuel economy, and premium charged by the manufacturer for the diesel engine. This is evident now with the "big 3" and their diesel pickup trucks.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by oilbelcher

California always screws it up for the rest. All these great diesels sold in Europe can't be used in the US because a few states make stupid regulations. Companies often have a difficult time making a business case to invest in a new diesel engine product in the US when certain big markets won't accept -- thats why we only have the VW jetta and MB 320 CDI. They would both offer more if they could sell higher volume by entering all state markets. Must be all that constant sun that just warps the thinking...

No it's just a different philosophical approach to emissions is all. European emissions and vehicle regulations focus on lowering CO2 emissions as priority 1, which is why you see smaller engine sizes, and a lot more diesel engines which do have lower CO2 emissions. I thought I read somewhere that the registration tax for a petrol vehicle was significantly higher than for a diesel also. The problem with diesels though is that while they do have lower CO2 emissions, they have far more carcinogenic emissions that have direct effects on human health, vs CO2 which is harmless. Diesel soot and exhaust is nasty stuff, and in a place with a population density as high as California, do you really want a ton of diesel engines running around with high soot and carcinogenic emissions? I sure as heck wouldn't. Ever been to Rome? It was so bad there that my wife and I could barely breathe, and all of the 2-cycle scooters weren't exactly helping either.

Anyways, the trick with diesel emissions is in the combustion temperature. You can get rid of the soot with higher combustion temperatures but then your NOx emissions go through the roof. You can get the NOx emissions down by backing down combustion temperatures, but then guess what? Your soot emissions go up which are carcinogenic and settle around. So the urea injection systems are a way of scrubbing the NOx emissions out of the exhaust while also keeping combustion temps higher which allows for low soot emissions and a "clean" diesel engine.

Yeah the Euro diesels are great, but they're not perfect either. I personally would love to buy a 530d or 535d, but I doubt one will be here in time for me to consider one. The new Benz E320 CDI is very tempting too, but their quality control is horrible and I'm just not a Mercedes kind of guy.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by oilbelcher

I am hoping by mid-2007. appears they are waiting for the US low-sulfer diesel fuel mandate to take effect late 2006, then make adjustments to exhaust/catylst systems to meet emission standards. they may also be watching the success of mercedes Bluetec diesel emission-control/exhaust system, which is introduced late this year on several models.

Manufacturers all have compliance labs either in-house or out-sourced and know well in advance (years) if something is going to pass future emissions regs or not, and they can use whatever type of fuel that they want to test with. It's not a question of waiting around for low-sulfur US diesel to get here, and then testing with it and trying to get their equipment to pass emissions because that's already been done a long time ago. They know how it will perform, know how to get it to pass, and the real question is whether they can leverage the EPA into allowing them to use the urea-injection systems.

Last I read the EPA was going to allow it, but not without a lot of pre-conditions. Like there must be a light on the dash if it runs empty, people must be able to come to dealerships to get it filled free of charge, and it must be available at independent shops also. The EPA is nervous about a ton of diesels running around that require maintenance every 10-15k miles to keep it emissions legal. They'd rather have it built into the car, for the life of the car. It's not so much of a concern on newer cars, but rather used ones where owner might not keep up with the maintenance.

[SteVTEC]

Originally Posted by Paul330d

Apparently Mercedes are launching, or have already launched the new S Class 320CDI (that's the diesel) in the US, so I can't imagine BMW will wait long.

As a basic guide for those who have never driven a modern diesel engine, they 'feel' like the next cylinder size up, i.e. a straight six diesel feels like a V8 petrol, etc.

Have not heard or seen anything about an S320 CDI in the US, and it's not on www.mbusa.com either. They have had the E320 CDI for a few years now with the Inline-6, which is set to be replaced by the V-6 "Bluetec" CDI this fall I believe. And yes a diesel may "feel like" the next engine size up, at least in normal driving and cruising because of all the torque, but when you're running flat out you still only have 230hp or so which at least in the US, is not a whole lot. Diesel engines also tend to be heavier.

Originally Posted by voltron1011

The problem is that the new restrictions on passenger cars go into affect about the same time as the low-sulphur fuel arrives. Basically, the rest of the US will adopt the current California emissions regs, which currently do not allow for new-car diesel sales. The only hope is the urea-injection systems...
Now, if BMW were smart they would first introduce the X5 and X3 diesels, since these vehicles are exempt from passenger car emissions.

I would love to see an X5 diesel.

Between the two of us, my wife is the SUV driver, but even she hates the high fuel consumption. She's either going to get a Lexus RX next (boring), or the redesigned X5 a year or so after it comes out (much better). If they have a diesel, I'll definitely have her test drive one.

Originally Posted by spots

Any gains in fuel economy will be negated by the higher cost of diesel fuel, higher maintenance costs, emission devices that lower fuel economy, and premium charged by the manufacturer for the diesel engine. This is evident now with the "big 3" and their diesel pickup trucks.

Diesel fuel in my area has been steadily cheaper than premium unleaded, and probably about the same as regular unleaded. Not sure about maintenance costs, but as far as emissions devices lowering fuel economy, all the urea injection system does is scrub the exhaust. An E320 CDI gets 27/37 mpg (30 overall) vs an E350 which gets 19/27 mpg (22 overall). According to fueleconomy.gov the operational cost difference in one year (15k miles) would be $700 in favor of the diesel. Considering the CDI is only $1000 more, it would nearly pay for itself in the first year, and I'm not sure that maintenance is all that different. The comparison to Detroit diesel trucks is apples to oranges because you're talking about a completely different market segment with very different cost considerations and structures. Yes, the diesel engine options do tend to be pricey ($6-8k or so), but you're talking about 3/4 or full-ton heavy-duty trucks geared towards the commercial market, and not light-duty passenger vehicles marketed towards regular consumers. It's two different things.

[Saintor]

I hope never.

This is indecent to buy a luxury car and brag about any economy. These guys deserves a Hyundai.

[Hej]

Originally Posted by spots

Any gains in fuel economy will be negated by the higher cost of diesel fuel, higher maintenance costs, emission devices that lower fuel economy, and premium charged by the manufacturer for the diesel engine. This is evident now with the "big 3" and their diesel pickup trucks.

It may be better to look at VW's diesel Jetta, where the premium for the diesel engine is ~$1k. As far as the cost for the fuel, seems around here that diesel costs the same as 87 octain unleaded. Also, what items in a diesel engine require more maintenance?

[h_curtis]

Originally Posted by oilbelcher

California always screws it up for the rest. All these great diesels sold in Europe can't be used in the US because a few states make stupid regulations. Companies often have a difficult time making a business case to invest in a new diesel engine product in the US when certain big markets won't accept -- thats why we only have the VW jetta and MB 320 CDI. They would both offer more if they could sell higher volume by entering all state markets. Must be all that constant sun that just warps the thinking...

I think you need to do a little reading before you speak. Diesels are not green machines to say the least. We do have a major pollution problem in much of the US. I live in one of the worst cities and believe me it is not good. I have come back from running and have had my lungs burning pretty bad. I don't like diesels because they contribute to smog. They are fine in the global warming and greenhouse department, but are very bad for local pollution. That is one of the big problems where I live. So those of you that live in Florida or some state that the air is great, well good for you. Those of us that live where the air is crap we need to speak up which I am doing here due to the response above. We get all the damn Ohio coal plant pollution that stops in Pittsburgh because of the hills here. Not a good situation. Two kids next door have asma. I don't know if they would have it if they lived in FL. I would imagine not. Cali, has similar problems.

Like it or not there is a problem. I hate following diesels. I do what ever I can to pass them even if means breaking the law to do so. Well, I don't really break the law...

[stressdoc]

Somehow I doubt you have ever had to follow an E90 320d. New BMW diesel ≠ old diesels, in terms of pollution. Just the opposite.