[zeelimit]

My wife borrowed my 2008 328i the other day. As she was pulling into a parking spot, the car started to accelerate. She then pressed the brake pedal and the car went faster. The car stopped by hitting the car in front of her.

No one was hurt. No damage to the car she hit. But there is enough damage to my car so that the insurance company is deciding whether it has been totaled.

I have found plenty of sites detailing BMW sudden acceleration problems. BMW claims that they have a brake pedal override. The driver I almost never believed.

Has anyone had a similar problem with this model?

[Welcome to NBA Jam]

If she says she pressed the brake pedal and the car went faster, I don't think she pressed the brake pedal.

[Ozzie335i]

I recall an old epitaph:

Here lies Betty Blake,
She stepped on the gas instead of the brake.

[alfazrus]

When I had a similar experience, the cause was the faulty accelerator module.

[BimmerNugget]

Unintended acceleration? Wtf...this is a BMW not a Toyota.

[avocet]

For shits and giggles go take your car to an EMPTY lot and drive at, say, 4mph. Floor the gas pedal while jamming the brake on as hard as you possible can. Even if you have a Toyota.

Please report back.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by alfazrus

When I had a similar experience, the cause was the faulty accelerator module.

Could you please describe your "similar experience" in detail including:
1) what pedal(s) was/were being pressed when acceleration occurred?
2) vehicle speed when acceleration occurred?
3) year, model, engine, tranny (MT/AT) of vehicle involved?
4) change in engine RPM during event?
5) effect of applying service brake (pressing brake pedal)?
6) whether you pulled handbrake, changed gear selection, pressed START?
6a) whether any warning lights or fault codes appeared or were saved, and if so, which ones?
6b) whether the vehicle went into limp mode either during that event or immediately following?
7) outcome of the event -- What stopped vehicle? What reduced engine RPM?
8) precisely WHAT examination or testing of any suspected parts revealed, including any damaged wiring or faulty sensor related to the Accelerator Pedal Module?
9) who performed any related tests, examinations or diagnosis, and whether any written records of such now exist?
10) whether any written report or complaint related to the incident was filed with or sent to any BMW representative, and when?

The purpose of my questions is NOT to personally attack you, but rather to try to elicit FACTS instead of vague, undefined "conspiracy theory" type rumors. If there IS an issue that HAS happened once or more, we should DEFINE the facts related to the occurrence, and attempt to identify how to (1) deal with the issue IF it occurs, and (2) prevent the issue from occurring.

There are TWO (2) separate and individually-wired sensors in the Accelerator Pedal Module, and the DME compares those two signals and goes to "Limp Mode" if the two signals are "implausible" or don't agree with each other to a sufficient degree. If you honestly believe that the redundancy and design features of the VVT system were NOT sufficient to prevent the car from "self-acceleration" you should immediately report that and demand/ cooperate with any proper testing of your vehicle by BMW personnel.

OP, if you have specific "similar occurrences" that you can cite, please provide reliable information. I'm NOT inclined to be dismissive of your account or make some misogynistic remark questioning the accuracy of the driver's account, but I am unaware of ANY relationship between the brake pedal and Accelerator Pedal Module or their inputs to the DME which controls VVT system. The Brake Light Switch is connected to the FRM for purpose of brake light function, and to the CAS for purpose of START signal to the Starter. AFAIK, there is NO connection of the brake light switch to the DME, either for purposes of "over-ride" of VVT signals, or for purposes of ANY input to the VVT module. Cruise control is a different matter as far as application of brake disengaging, but you don't suggest that was engaged.

The BS-Artist in Chief is engaging in enough mindless fear-mongering at the moment. He doesn't need anyone's help.

Merry Christmas,
George

[ckanderson]

Every single time it's people pushing on the gas instead of the brake.

[Efthreeoh]

Most women's stylish footwear is not conducive to providing good automotive pedal control. There obviously was an error in the system, not related to the 328i's hardware. The reason why one is legally required to carry liability insurance.

That said, believe your wife as to what happened.

[Gamb1t]

Another reason to drive a manual. Clutch in, shift to neutral. Accelerate that!

Surely glad your wife was unhurt. Could've ended up on the newspapers like Tesla's these days.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by BimmerNugget

Unintended acceleration? Wtf...this is a BMW not a Toyota.

Dude Toyota is on top of the car world.. like truly on top. Toyota can do everything that BMW can but better. How ? They have way more money. How ? They have way more sales. How ? They do things right.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Efthreeoh

...That said, believe your wife as to what happened.

Sage advice.
OP has the choice between two options:
1) small claims court;
2) divorce court.

[alfazrus]

Hello, George! Lol, maybe I should've been more clear. Ok, let's start. Car is e90 330i, auto. In my case, sometimes the rpm's would go up like 4/5 K as soon as I turn the car on. And other times, when I drive, suddenly rpm would just keep going up without pressing the gas pedal, thus the term sudden acceleration. And when I brake, rpm would go up and up like somebody is pressing the gas pedal.
I have enough experience not to confuse the gas pedal from the brake pedal. But, I can see somebody else is being panicked in that situation. Finally, the car spit out a code and car went into limp mode. And was diagnosed as the acceleration module. Since, the module and pedal is one unit, the whole unit was replaced by Autobahn Motor Works in Bethesda. It's been fine since.

[alfazrus]

By the way, I'm not saying BMW is at fault. Nor I am creating some conspiracy theory. With age, a lot of things go wrong with cars. In my case, it was the acceleration module on this specific vehicle.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by alfazrus

...e90 330i, auto. In my case, sometimes the rpm's would go up like 4/5 K as soon as I turn the car on. And other times, when I drive, suddenly rpm would just keep going up without pressing the gas pedal... And when I brake, rpm would go up and up like somebody is pressing the gas pedal...Finally, the car spit out a code and car went into limp mode. And was diagnosed as the acceleration module. Since, the module and pedal is one unit, the whole unit was replaced by Autobahn Motor Works in Bethesda. It's been fine since.

Thanks for supplying the details so we know what to look for. I'm NOT sure from your description how many times this sudden RPM increase occurred before the DME put the system into limp mode, or what SES/ Warning Lamps appeared, and whether they stayed on or went out. If you could educate us about that, we would be better able to identify the problem if it happens to us.

Questions:
1) When you say "when I brake, rpm would go up like somebody is pressing the gas pedal" I presume the braking power was sufficient to over-ride the engine?
2) Did you notice how high the RPM went when you were stopping?
3) Did you ever have to shift to N or P, or press START to shut off the engine?
4) If this was an intermittent occurrence, how many times did it happen, and over a period of how many days, weeks, etc. BEFORE it went to limp mode?
5) Did the SES light come on EACH time this happened, or did it STAY on after the first time it happened?

Reason I was/am asking for details is that BMW wants us to think that the DME detection of "implausible" signals from the two sensors in the Accelerator Pedal Module will immediately put the car into limp mode, and the events you describe with the RPM going "up & up" will NOT occur. Obviously, in your case the events DID occur, and limp mode did NOT occur soon enough.

I don't suppose you had any discussion with anyone at Autobahn about whether a coding change in the DME or any other known "fix" for such occurrences had been developed by BMW since your vehicle was manufactured?

Thanks also for attaching your vehicle's service record which shows the two codes. We ALL should be aware of whether the conditions that set these codes causes the SES or any other warning light to appear.

P2138 | 2D20 | Throttle / Pedal Position Sensor 'D' 'E' Voltage Correlation
P2127 | 2D1C | Throttle Pedal Position Sensor 'E' Circuit Low

Several observations (NON-professional SWAGS ;-) about the two codes, definitions above copied from Bentley, p. OBD-23:
1) BOTH codes have P-code equivalents, P2127 & P2138, so a generic P-code reader is all you need to identify these faults;
2) There are in fact two sensors ('D' & 'E') and the DME compares/ correlates the signals from those two sensors to insure the signals are NOT bogus;
3) My guess would be that in your case, a wiring or connector fault, or a fault in Sensor 'E' caused the circuit for that sensor to go "open-circuit" or "Low V."

If anyone else has experienced a similar issue, please provide as much detail about it as you are able.

OP, perhaps you may have some reasonable talking points with BMW about repairing your vehicle on their dime if:
1) you connect a scan tool to your OBD II socket and read codes in DME (Do NOT Clear those codes), and
2) if you find either of the two listed above, or any other that relates to the VVT/ Accelerator Pedal Module, Record/Save the Freeze Frame Data that indicates the mileage/km at which the code was saved, ALSO recording the mileage/km when the incident occurred.

If I'm representing BMW, the codes tell the story. Do NOT destroy the evidence, if present.

Thanks to Alfazrus for sharing information,
George

[zeelimit]

George: To reply to your questions:
1) My wife is certain she pressed the brake pedal.
2) The car was decelerating as it entered the parking spot (10 mph?) and then started to accelerate (without brake or gas being pressed). To stop the car, the brake pedal was pressed and the car went faster.
3) 2008 328i (automatic)
4) No info on RPM.
5) effect of applying service brake (pressing brake pedal)? See 2
6) whether you pulled handbrake, changed gear selection, pressed START? None of these were applied.
6a) no warning lights went on
6b) Car did not go into limp mode.
7) Car was stopped by hitting parked car.
8) Car is in a body shop. Have not been able to get it to a BMW mechanic for diagnosis.
9) who performed any related tests, examinations or diagnosis, and whether any written records of such now exist? See 8
10) whether any written report or complaint related to the incident was filed with or sent to any BMW representative, and when? Have not yet.

[alfazrus]

Hello, George! In my case:
1) Yes, brakes worked perfectly. It would stop the car but it wouldn't have any effect on engine speed. Meaning rpm would still climbing.
2) This things were happening in seconds. So, I immediately stopped safely and turned the car off. Thou, it felt like it would hit the redline .
3) I pulled over and put it in P and turned the engine off.
4) Yes, it was intermittent. I would say about 3 or 4 times a week. About two weeks before the limp mode.
5) Yes, SES light would come on each time.

To be honest, I didn't get into details with my indy. Was told it was the acceleration module and I told them to replace it. Didn't really think of it much other than a failed part.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by alfazrus

Hello, George! In my case:
1) Yes, brakes worked perfectly. It would stop the car but it wouldn't have any effect on engine speed. Meaning rpm would still climbing.
2) This things were happening in seconds. So, I immediately stopped safely and turned the car off. Thou, it felt like it would hit the redline .
3) I pulled over and put it in P and turned the engine off.
4) Yes, it was intermittent. I would say about 3 or 4 times a week. About two weeks before the limp mode.
5) Yes, SES light would come on each time.

To be honest, I didn't get into details with my indy. Was told it was the acceleration module and I told them to replace it. Didn't really think of it much other than a failed part.

So as I interpret your info shared:

1) This "run-away Accelerator" occurred 6 to 8 times over a ~ 2-week period until finally the Limp Mode kicked in, and you took it to the shop.

2) Braking force was sufficient to stop the car on EACH of those occurrences, even though the RPM stayed significantly above normal idle due to Accelerator Pedal Module malfunction, while you were applying brake.

3) The SES light came on each time this occurred (6 to 8 times).

I'm NOT clear on whether upon restart after shutdown, (a) normal operation was restored, and/or (b) SES light went out, but that is certainly the impression I get from your description.

It would be my SWAG that from the FIRST time this happened, and the SES light came on, there was at least ONE Fault Code Saved in DME memory related to VVT system (Accelerator Pedal Module Sensor signal "Implausibility"), and simply hooking up a cheap P-code reader to the OBD II Socket would have disclosed that code.

Like a local minister used to say on the radio: "NOT a sermon, just a thought."

Thanks for taking the time to share that info,
George

[Conundrum68]

Originally Posted by zeelimit

My wife borrowed my 2008 328i the other day. As she was pulling into a parking spot, the car started to accelerate. She then pressed the brake pedal and the car went faster. The car stopped by hitting the car in front of her.

No one was hurt. No damage to the car she hit. But there is enough damage to my car so that the insurance company is deciding whether it has been totaled.

I have found plenty of sites detailing BMW sudden acceleration problems. BMW claims that they have a brake pedal override. The driver I almost never believed.

Has anyone had a similar problem with this model?

Just today this EXACT SAME THING happened to my wife.
2008 Z4 3.0i.
I know what we say about women drivers, but this lady has not been in an accident as a driver, EVER, and she has been driving since she was 16 (she's..ahem..49 now...shhhh).
She was pulling into a parking spot at work and it just accelerated. She ended up hitting a tree and the engine turned off.

She can't explain it, and figures she MUST have hit the accelerator, but CANNOT remember doing that. All she remembers is hitting the brake. She was wearing simple wedges, nothing fancy on her feet.

I will drive to the shop tomorrow and see if it is throwing any accelerator-sensor codes. This is unreal. I'm also going to look at the floor mat.

Any thoughts from anyone on the technical aspects of this situation are welcome.
Thanks.

[Conundrum68]

Originally Posted by alfazrus

By the way, I'm not saying BMW is at fault. Nor I am creating some conspiracy theory. With age, a lot of things go wrong with cars. In my case, it was the acceleration module on this specific vehicle.

Thank you for this info.

[Bmw_Crazy]

Sorry step on the brakes and it went faster...

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by Conundrum68

Just today this EXACT SAME THING happened to my wife. 2008 Z4 3.0i. She was pulling into a parking spot at work and it just accelerated. She ended up hitting a tree and the engine turned off...I will drive to the shop tomorrow and see if it is throwing any accelerator-sensor codes...

The posts by Alfazrus above in this thread, record shop having retrieved the following codes due to Accelerator Pedal Module faults:

P2138 | 2D20 | Throttle / Pedal Position Sensor 'D' 'E' Voltage Correlation
P2127 | 2D1C | Throttle Pedal Position Sensor 'E' Circuit Low

This condition CAN happen, and if the accelerator pedal module gave an implausible signal, that fault may appear in the DME memory, even if the condition only occurred for a second or two before impact & shutdown.

Hope your wife is OK and we ALL need to be aware that this is NOT a laughing matter.

Even though there are TWO sensors in the Pedal Module, and the DME compares their readings for implausibility, there ARE documented cases of faults in the Accelerator Pedal -- DME -- VVT sytem which cause UNINTENDED RPM increase, and if that happens unexpectedly in a tight situation (pulling into a parking spot), an unsuspecting operator may NOT apply Brake hard enough or quickly enough to avoid a collision.

Please let us know the outcome,
George