[ArmaNineTSeven]

Hi guys

As the title suggest I have an "issue" with my automatic transmission. I looked online in a number of places, but didn't find a conclusive "Oh yeah I have the same thing!". So my apologies in advance if this is called the "jerking" transmission or some other well known issue.

Car summary:
BMW 320dA LCI 2011 184hp with 246.000KM (150.000 ish miles)

Issue('s):
Oh god... how to properly explain this. These issues are not continues... they come and go but more more often.

- When accelerating and the transmission shifts I feel a short (0.2s) deceleration. Almost as if someone brakes a bit, or a clutch thing? Also from time to time when this happens it shoots up a bit in revs. E.g. when accelerating decent, the tranny shifts at about 2.5K revs. When shifting is does the ugh head forward thingy and slips a to 2.7K revs.

- A hard shift cold or warm. There are days where this is really bad, but also days where the tranny is smooth af, though those days are diminishing more and more.

Possible solutions:
- Fluid change (don't think that has ever happened on this car yet, always dealer maintained by previous owner)
- Solenoids? Together with the fluid change then
- Something with the torque converter?

The reason I'm asking help is, well 1 I'm not a mechanic and 2 that sh*t is expensive... I love the car and the everything is in such a great shape except the tranny which bothers me considering that it is expensive whenever something bad happens. Any help would be greatly appreciated!

[assassinsbrotherhood]

Well you have finally found someone that did also have this issue.I chased around all the specialists and they all would say its the Valve body or the Mechatronic unit or the Mech seal.All just wanted to do a full rebuild.Would not stand for that so I contacted ZF mechanic. It appears that what actually happens is the input shaft wears about so many thousand of an inch and cant be seen unless you put a micrometer on it and are actually aware of it.so you need to have the INPUT SHAFT BUSHING replaced and then it will drive like new.I was only able to find 1 mechanic that had worked on hundreds of these trannys and was willing to just do that part for me.he told me that no fix no pay and he was spot on. My car drives like new now.This issue is known to happen in ZF trannys if you have done 4k or 140k.($600 labour,parts and new clutches).

[ArmaNineTSeven]

Originally Posted by assassinsbrotherhood

Well you have finally found someone that did also have this issue.I chased around all the specialists and they all would say its the Valve body or the Mechatronic unit or the Mech seal.All just wanted to do a full rebuild.Would not stand for that so I contacted ZF mechanic. It appears that what actually happens is the input shaft wears about so many thousand of an inch and cant be seen unless you put a micrometer on it and are actually aware of it.so you need to have the INPUT SHAFT BUSHING replaced and then it will drive like new.I was only able to find 1 mechanic that had worked on hundreds of these trannys and was willing to just do that part for me.he told me that no fix no pay and he was spot on. My car drives like new now.This issue is known to happen in ZF trannys if you have done 4k or 140k.($600 labour,parts and new clutches).

Thanks for the information! I'll start looking for a good mechanic!

[mecheng77]

Try resetting your trans adaptations:

-Car off
-Key in slot
-No foot on brake, turn car on until dash lights up

-hold for 30 seconds
-let throttle off, ignition off, key out or maybe keep throttle on and turn off car
-wait two minutes then start the car

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Try resetting your trans adaptations:

-Car off
-Key in slot
-No foot on brake, turn car on until dash lights up

-hold for 30 seconds
-let throttle off, ignition off, key out or maybe keep throttle on and turn off car
-wait two minutes then start the car

Its been said many times, you DO NOT want to reset your transmission adaptation unless components have been replaced. Such as clutches and mech unit.. .

The adaptation procedure is very lengthy and demanding and its done generally at a closed course.

xHP forum has alot of info on this.

[lowrydr310]

I'd try a fluid change first to see what happens. I didn't have any of that 2500-2700 slowing/slip that you describe but I had some weird behavior such as occasional harsh shifts and more specifically a screeching sound when downshifting under load that were both resolved after a fluid change.

The screeching immediately went away. Within a month or so after changing the fluid, shifting all around was noticeably better.

[nsjames]

it's called a shift flare.

I would service it before I spent money having it diagnosed.

and the previously mentioned input shaft bushing is actually related to the e clutch issues.
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Z...E-Clutch-Fault

[assassinsbrotherhood]

Originally Posted by nsjames

it's called a shift flare.

I would service it before I spent money having it diagnosed.

and the previously mentioned input shaft bushing is actually related to the e clutch issues.
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Z...E-Clutch-Fault

I know the bushing relates to the E clutch problems, but I had no clutch issues and was constantly having shift flares. Its to do with the pressures surrounding the change of gears which is not sufficiently held when a gear shift is made due to the loss of pressure through the bushing.Straight from a ZF techs mouth!

[assassinsbrotherhood]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Its been said many times, you DO NOT want to reset your transmission adaptation unless components have been replaced. Such as clutches and mech unit.. .

The adaptation procedure is very lengthy and demanding and its done generally at a closed course.

xHP forum has alot of info on this.

+1 Pladi you are correct on all accounts.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by nsjames

it's called a shift flare.

I would service it before I spent money having it diagnosed.

and the previously mentioned input shaft bushing is actually related to the e clutch issues.
https://axleaddict.com/auto-repair/Z...E-Clutch-Fault

This issue will come up as codes and a locked transmission in 3rd gear as the article suggests. OP said nothing about that.

[mecheng77]

Originally Posted by Pladi

Its been said many times, you DO NOT want to reset your transmission adaptation unless components have been replaced. Such as clutches and mech unit.. .

The adaptation procedure is very lengthy and demanding and its done generally at a closed course.

xHP forum has alot of info on this.

Originally Posted by Pladi

Its been said many times, you DO NOT want to reset your transmission adaptation unless components have been replaced. Such as clutches and mech unit.. .

The adaptation procedure is very lengthy and demanding and its done generally at a closed course.

xHP forum has alot of info on this.

Can you link me. I did the reset and the downshift is noticeably smoother

[nsjames]

Originally Posted by assassinsbrotherhood

I know the bushing relates to the E clutch problems, but I had no clutch issues and was constantly having shift flares. Its to do with the pressures surrounding the change of gears which is not sufficiently held when a gear shift is made due to the loss of pressure through the bushing.Straight from a ZF techs mouth!

how do you think you get the clutch issues? a lack of pressure to the servos maybe that allows the clutch to slip during a shift flare?

Originally Posted by Pladi

This issue will come up as codes and a locked transmission in 3rd gear as the article suggests. OP said nothing about that.

eventually it will.
but not at first.

[banglenot]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Can you link me. I did the reset and the downshift is noticeably smoother

There are two resets available to us. One debatable, one actual:

"Pedal reset". This is the pedal one. People debate whether it's real. My car is on the 5th floor of a large garage, with a steady downhill run to the entrance gate. Over time, I can feel the engine braking increasingly engaging (as if I'm in a low manual mode) on this downhill run -- a sign that the ZF is learning driving characteristics, as it should.

When I do the pedal reset, the engine braking becomes far less noticeable for awhile, but slowly increases over time. To me, this means the pedal reset does something, however minor, to reset some of the ZF's learned programing, and the ZF relearns the engine braking it assumes is needed on a long downhill run.

"Adaptation reset": This is a reset done (rarely) via INPA or ISTA. I use ISTA. It's supposed to be done after mechanical work or parts replacement is done on the transmission, and resets to factory programming. However, it's debatable if this includes the simple 6 liter fluid refresh -- ZF doesn't seem to require it.

Over the years, I've done ISTA adaptation resets on both my ZF transmissions. They do require a specific relearning procedure (attached), which is complex if carried out to the letter. I prefer to simply follow the intent of the procedure, and the ZF relearns just fine over a few days. Because this procedure is complex, this adaptation reset should be done only occasionally -- if repairing or refitting parts on the mechatronics (valve body) for example, such as solenoids, interface gaskets or a mecha rebuild. Resetting the ZF and then it driving like you stole it is a bad idea.

Those are the two. Hope that helps.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by mecheng77

Can you link me. I did the reset and the downshift is noticeably smoother

I would trust ZF and xHP creators more than you. You had a great outcome keep doing it. I am also on this thread to tell people that its not a magical fix as you claim as well as it needs a lengthy procedure to adapt properly.

60 plus miles of driving the car in specific gears un-interrupted to complete the adaptation.

[Pladi]

Originally Posted by banglenot

There are two resets available to us. One debatable, one actual:

"Pedal reset". This is the pedal one. People debate whether it's real. My car is on the 5th floor of a large garage, with a steady downhill run to the entrance gate. Over time, I can feel the engine braking increasingly engaging (as if I'm in a low manual mode) on this downhill run -- a sign that the ZF is learning driving characteristics, as it should.

When I do the pedal reset, the engine braking becomes far less noticeable for awhile, but slowly increases over time. To me, this means the pedal reset does something, however minor, to reset some of the ZF's learned programing, and the ZF relearns the engine braking it assumes is needed on a long downhill run.

"Adaptation reset": This is a reset done (rarely) via INPA or ISTA. I use ISTA. It's supposed to be done after mechanical work or parts replacement is done on the transmission, and resets to factory programming. However, it's debatable if this includes the simple 6 liter fluid refresh -- ZF doesn't seem to require it.

Over the years, I've done ISTA adaptation resets on both my ZF transmissions. They do require a specific relearning procedure (attached), which is complex if carried out to the letter. I prefer to simply follow the intent of the procedure, and the ZF relearns just fine over a few days. Because this procedure is complex, this adaptation reset should be done only occasionally -- if repairing or refitting parts on the mechatronics (valve body) for example, such as solenoids, interface gaskets or a mecha rebuild. Resetting the ZF and then it driving like you stole it is a bad idea.

Those are the two. Hope that helps.

This is my understanding as well. Its to be done after HW changes.

[banglenot]

So, people ask how you DIY diagnose and fix your ZF.

The ZF is the most complex and expensive single system on the car. BTW, valve body = mechatronics for our purposes.

If you want to work on it, invest your time in learning how it works and what can be fixed by the DIY'er. Even the moderate shade tree mechanic can do a lot of the diagnostics and repair.

Codes: read them and understand them before you do anything. A lot of info on them out there.

Fluid: should be refreshed, per ZF, every 40-70K miles. Not necessary to replace the filter that often unless the fluid is black (abuse and overheating). Normal use, the fluid is translucent, brownish green and moderately darker than the replacement fluid. I replace my filter every other fluid refresh. Note that because you replace 6-7 liters out of 9-10, it's a refresh, not a replacement. Important to dump old fluid into a clean container and compare the amount to how much you refill, as well as inspect old fluid for cleanliness. If it's down a liter, you may have a slow drip in the main seal gasket or in the electrical adapter. Never, ever reuse old fluid, no matter what BMW has BS'd everyone about it's lifespan.

Mechatronics: The next repair level is to remove the mecha. ZF and sonnax repair guides are attached for ZF's used in Jag and Ford. Use them for learning, as they give useful guidance to what does what in a ZF, and how specific subsystems work.

Three areas are most common in Mecha wear:

--Rubber interfaces: The gaskets between the valve body and turbine sections wear out and shrink/crack due to heat and usage. My rule of thumb is that if the fluid looks worn/black, I'll replace these first -- or at 100K miles as a PM. About $50-60 for the set of five. Wear here can reduce fluid pressure, resulting in wear on moving interface parts (think clutches, steels, valves).
--Solenoids: these can wear over time. Straightforward to replace if needed, but probably blamed on more issues than they deserve. If the mecha is out for PM and service, test and clean them. ZF Calls them Pressure Regulators. Some are on/off; some allow variable flow under electrical control -- think volume controls rather than switches.
--Mechatronics wear: The valve body also wears out, particularly if the fluid is old/worn/black. There are a LOT of tiny moving parts in a valve body (see the Sonnax guide, attached). stuff loosens up and gets clogged with clutch debris, etc. Zip kits are very helpful, but demand a very careful ability -- think rebuilding a watch. I've been working on cars for 40 years, and I'd not install a Zipkit -- not so much because I can't do it right, but I don't have access to a test jig. But do it if you want. Slow, document, take lots of pics. Talk to the supply house to confirm you have the right one including the separator. (Don't let the cat on the workbench until you're done.)
My preference for an old or abused unit is a rebuilt mecha from a name remanufacturing house. Two reasons: the reman is done by someone who knows how; and more importantly, the test jig is built to exercise the mecha throughout. Also, if there's a problem, I've got someone to bitch at to get a fix rather than myself.

I would not pay a local tranny house to rebuild a mecha, unless I saw their test jig in operation.

NOTE: The ZF guide is good, but later on in the pdf some of the pics are missing. If anyone has a complete copy, I'd love to get it

That's enough for now. If you want to learn how to work on your ZF, learn how it works.

[gamesfrager]

So my 2011 328i automatic had the adaptation reset done by an indi BMW shop.
I asked what about the reset procedure, then he said forget all this; all I need to do is make sure for the next two weeks, whenever I come to a stop; I should make sure it's a full stop not a rolling one.

I don't see 328i on that adaptation reset pdf?!
Thanks in advance