[WE57RAN]

Can anyone help please as need the correct daten for e93 (Nov 2008)? Also the correct INPA to use it? Having problems setting it all up...

[PichaDis11]

Coding forum ..

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by WE57RAN

Can anyone help please as need the correct daten for e93 (Nov 2008)? Also the correct INPA to use it? Having problems setting it all up...

Welcome to the Forum!

Here are links to Site from which you can download INPA/ISTA, and get good K+DCAN cable:

BMW-Specific Diagnostic Software, INPA (Standard Tools), ISTA (Rheingold):
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/downloads

BimmerGeeks Pro K+DCAN Cable:
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...eeks-pro-cable

ALL E9x models (E90 thru E93) use E89 Daten files, so download & install E89 daten, but when you go to connect, select E90...E93. Any questions, post back.

I also attach a pdf containing these & other links to E9x References. Of particular importance are TIS Online Service Manual & Bentley Manual.

George

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Welcome to the Forum!

Here are links to Site from which you can download INPA/ISTA, and get good K+DCAN cable:

BMW-Specific Diagnostic Software, INPA (Standard Tools), ISTA (Rheingold):
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/downloads

BimmerGeeks Pro K+DCAN Cable:
https://www.bimmergeeks.net/product-...eeks-pro-cable

ALL E9x models (E90 thru E93) use E89 Daten files, so download & install E89 daten, but when you go to connect, select E90...E93. Any questions, post back.

I also attach a pdf containing these & other links to E9x References. Of particular importance are TIS Online Service Manual & Bentley Manual.

George

If you use the Bimmergeeks software pkg (Standard Tools) all the folders already have all the necessary files preloaded in them (EC-APPS, EDIBIAS, NCSEXPER) when you complete the install and will work right out of the box. You'll only need to download the daten if you plan on using WinKFP for flashing and programming.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

If you use the Bimmergeeks software pkg (Standard Tools) all the folders already have all the necessary files preloaded in them (EC-APPS, EDIBIAS, NCSEXPER) when you complete the install and will work right out of the box. You'll only need to download the daten if you plan on using WinKFP for flashing and programming.

Are you sure the Daten files are NOT necessary to do the following in INPA:
1) Connect to each of the ~ 20+ modules;
2) Use Functional Jobs in INPA to read Fault Codes in ALL modules;
3) See Information and Menus of functions in each module;
4) Read Fault Codes and Details & Freeze Frame Data in all modules;
5) See Parameters or all Status functions in each module;
6) See & perform Activations/Steuern in each module;
7) Connect to other series/models that use Daten files other than E89?

What about using ISTA/Rheingold? Does the SAME apply as far as ALL functionality in ANY model WITHOUT Daten files being downloaded?

E89 Daten files are 4.51 GB compressed RAR file and > 10GB unzipped, and that is just for one series of vehicles. How can the INPA shell possibly have ALL the necessary Data files to run INPA on ANY series of vehicles, or even just E9x vehicles?

As installed on my computer (NOT Bimmergeeks download) the "INPA" folder in "EC-APPS" is only 179MB.

If my concepts of how INPA is configured are incorrect, I would appreciate your taking a moment to enlighten me.

Thanks,
George

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Are you sure the Daten files are NOT necessary to do the following in INPA:
1) Connect to each of the ~ 20+ modules;
2) Use Functional Jobs in INPA to read Fault Codes in ALL modules;
3) See Information and Menus of functions in each module;
4) Read Fault Codes and Details & Freeze Frame Data in all modules;
5) See Parameters or all Status functions in each module;
6) See & perform Activations/Steuern in each module;
7) Connect to other series/models that use Daten files other than E89?

What about using ISTA/Rheingold? Does the SAME apply as far as ALL functionality in ANY model WITHOUT Daten files being downloaded?

E89 Daten files are 4.51 GB compressed RAR file and > 10GB unzipped, and that is just for one series of vehicles. How can the INPA shell possibly have ALL the necessary Data files to run INPA on ANY series of vehicles, or even just E9x vehicles?

As installed on my computer (NOT Bimmergeeks download) the "INPA" folder in "EC-APPS" is only 179MB.

If my concepts of how INPA is configured are incorrect, I would appreciate your taking a moment to enlighten me.

Thanks,
George

I'm sure. It should do all seven of the things you listed.

The BG download is over 2.5 GBs unpacked and the vast majority of that is Ediabas. The Ediabas folder is the key here. That's where the vast majority of the files used by INPA and ISTA/D are stored. Remember, it's only doing diagnostics, calibrations, etc. there's no flashing or programming involved therefore their size is relatively small. It's how Carly and BG's ProTool can get away with using a phone to perform a lot of these functions, by using only the specific files they need to accomplish the menu of operations they choose to include in their app. For instance, BG only uses a 500mb download to perform all it's functions across the E6x, E7x, E8x, and E9x models it covers.

Now look at the data folder inside your E89 datens folder, it's where all of that 10.5 GBs of files is stored. This is what's used for flashing and programming by WinKFP, consider it all the software that's been used since 2006. Loads for more info and complexity here because it contains all the various software versions of all the different modules that BMW has used since the inception of the E9x, E8x, and Z models.

Not the most technical explanation but I think you get the gist. I have three different laptops with various programs I can use. My old XP has a old version of INPA that works extremely well with older E series, it has some calibrations and adaptions that got phased out in the newer versions. There's no daten loaded and it works perfectly.

[Bali]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

There's no daten loaded and it works perfectly.

Just to clarify, some of the files from the daten package are installed - specifically, the files used by INPA, Tool32, NCS Expert (ECU, SGDAT folders) - just not all the software update files used by WinKFP.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by BaliDawg

Just to clarify, some of the files from the daten package are installed - specifically, the files used by INPA, Tool32, NCS Expert (ECU, SGDAT folders) - just not all the software update files used by WinKFP.

Yes, but they're pre-installed within the folders. There's no need to download the complete daten file unless you plan on using WinKFP unless you like redundancy.

[hassmaschine]

When following the Bimmergeeks isntallation, skip the step where it says to delete the folders in the C: drive, and just copy the others overtop. All of the files are pretty much there except the ones needed for flashing - no daten files required. you can even use NCSexpert.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

[1] Yes, but they're pre-installed within the folders. [2] There's no need to download the complete daten file [3] unless you plan on using WinKFP [4] unless you like redundancy.

First, thank you for trying to improve my concept of how INPA works. I only understand computer programs from a very basic conceptual (sometimes MIS-conceptual ;-) viewpoint.

From the help offered so far, do I correctly understand:

1) That there ARE Daten files INPA uses to connect to the ~ 20+ modules in each series of cars, as well as to communicate with those modules?

2) That the Daten files INPA uses to perform its functions are a very small subset or selection from the ENTIRE E89 (for E9x purposes) Daten files (which unpacked has a total size of ~ 10.6GB)?

3) You say the Daten files are "pre-installed" within the folders. At what stage of downloading & installing the INPA/E89 Daten Folders/ Files, are the Data files installed in the Folders used by INPA?

4) When I installed BMW Standard Tools/ INPA a year ago, as I recall the procedure now, I downloaded two different groups of folders/files: (1) Standard Tools, and (2) E89 Daten. Those folders/ files were then unzipped and transferred to my laptop. In running the Install process, selected files from the large (10.6GB) E89 Daten Folder were installed into, or tagged for use by, the INPA program (located in EC-APPS). Is THIS the "pre-installed" process that you are referring to, and WHERE are the files/ folders actually installed (in what folder)? EDIABAS?? EDIABAS\ECU???

5) I think I understand you to say that at some point the INPA program has to either copy or tag certain files from E89 Daten for use when running INPA. Further I think I understand you to say that the majority of E89 Daten files are NOT used by INPA, and if one is NOT using WinKFP for flashing and programming, then there is no need to retain the bulk of the E89 Daten files on the laptop hard-drive. If those concepts are correct, how can one identify the folders/files which may be deleted without affecting/ reducing INPA functionality?

6) Is it more correct to say that at some point INPA installation had to "Install" (copy or tag) selected files from E89 Daten, and once that is done, the E89 Folder (10.6GB) may be deleted?

7) In other words, where has the Install Procedure put/saved the Data files INPA needs to connect/ diagnose/ control E9x modules (folders/files that we do NOT want to delete), and what folders used in the Install Procedure may now be safely deleted as duplicative?

I apologize if my "conceptions" are actually "mis-conceptions" -- any help in pointing me straight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
George

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

First, thank you for trying to improve my concept of how INPA works. I only understand computer programs from a very basic conceptual (sometimes MIS-conceptual ;-) viewpoint.

From the help offered so far, do I correctly understand:

1) That there ARE Daten files INPA uses to connect to the ~ 20+ modules in each series of cars, as well as to communicate with those modules?

2) That the Daten files INPA uses to perform its functions are a very small subset or selection from the ENTIRE E89 (for E9x purposes) Daten files (which unpacked has a total size of ~ 10.6GB)?

3) You say the Daten files are "pre-installed" within the folders. At what stage of downloading & installing the INPA/E89 Daten Folders/ Files, are the Data files installed in the Folders used by INPA?

4) When I installed BMW Standard Tools/ INPA a year ago, as I recall the procedure now, I downloaded two different groups of folders/files: (1) Standard Tools, and (2) E89 Daten. Those folders/ files were then unzipped and transferred to my laptop. In running the Install process, selected files from the large (10.6GB) E89 Daten Folder were installed into, or tagged for use by, the INPA program (located in EC-APPS). Is THIS the "pre-installed" process that you are referring to, and WHERE are the files/ folders actually installed (in what folder)? EDIABAS?? EDIABAS\ECU???

5) I think I understand you to say that at some point the INPA program has to either copy or tag certain files from E89 Daten for use when running INPA. Further I think I understand you to say that the majority of E89 Daten files are NOT used by INPA, and if one is NOT using WinKFP for flashing and programming, then there is no need to retain the bulk of the E89 Daten files on the laptop hard-drive. If those concepts are correct, how can one identify the folders/files which may be deleted without affecting/ reducing INPA functionality?

6) Is it more correct to say that at some point INPA installation had to "Install" (copy or tag) selected files from E89 Daten, and once that is done, the E89 Folder (10.6GB) may be deleted?

7) In other words, where has the Install Procedure put/saved the Data files INPA needs to connect/ diagnose/ control E9x modules (folders/files that we do NOT want to delete), and what folders used in the Install Procedure may now be safely deleted as duplicative?

I apologize if my "conceptions" are actually "mis-conceptions" -- any help in pointing me straight would be appreciated.

Thanks,
George

To clarify, there's a lot of software "pkgs" floating around out there. It sounds like you're using a older version of something, so yes, older pkgs needed to be filled via the BMW Coding Tool (easiest way) with the daten file to make them functional. I've downloaded Mikes and went through it a while back but it was incomplete and not nearly as functional for the lay person as BG's or Wildcatcrazy's pkg (available in the coding section here).. What these two pkgs have done is include the necessary files inside the installation zip to be able to use INPA, Tool32, and NCS Expert right out of the box. The initial install folders of NCSEXPER, EC-APPS, and EDIABAS are empty. By deleting them and replacing with the full folders that are unzipped along with Standard Tools you are giving those three programs the necessary files for them to be fully functional. The pathways are already set, you just need to register three OCX files as administrator through command prompt and you're ready to go. I think if you were to download the BG pkg and just unzip to your desktop, read the install instructions and glance through the folders it would make sense.

EC-APPS-> INPA-> SGDAT-> IPO files
EDIABAS->ECU->PRG files
E89 folder contains SGDAT, ECU, plus daten and data which is why in older versions you needed to download E89 datens and upload to fill the folders to run INPA, etc. No longer necessary if you just want to use INPA, NCS Expert or Tool32, BUT you must use a software pkg that includes SGDAT and ECU.

So it basically boils down what pkg you use, what's included outright, and will you be flashing and programming with WinKFP.

[gbalthrop]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

To clarify, there's a lot of software "pkgs" floating around out there. It sounds like you're using a older version of something, so yes, older pkgs needed to be filled via the BMW Coding Tool (easiest way) with the daten file to make them functional. I've downloaded Mikes and went through it a while back but it was incomplete and not nearly as functional for the lay person as BG's or Wildcatcrazy's pkg (available in the coding section here)...

Thanks, all of that makes sense, and yes, I'm probably using Mike's setup (been long enough I've forgotten although I do still have recorded notes). Gotta get the necessary data from somewhere, and your explanation suggests different versions have done it different ways.

I do plan on installing BG version sometime this winter. BTW, have you found any glaring errors in German>English translation in BG version (like Print for Pressure, or Worse)? I assume Menus have been translated to English? What about Fault Code Definitions or other data readout -- is that still (mostly) in German requiring translation, or is BG version nearly ALL English?

Thanks again,
George

[hassmaschine]

The translations are all the same. Mostly they are ok, but sometimes you are missing the context. I prefer to just leave it all auf Deutsch, personally.

[gjm120]

I know wrong forum, but, this discussion is very pertinent to me now. I have the BG Std Tools installed and have used it successfully to do some simple coding. I want to use NCS Dummy to disassemble and reassemble my FRM module (trying to change blinker count).
Do I need the full E89 Daten file? If so, does it get used properly being a separate folder on "C" drive?

[ctuna]

All these versions of Inpa come with some daten already files installed.
the ilevel of the car tells you which set of daten files you are currently using
and there is a cross table for relating the ilevel to the daten level
described on the coding subform.
If you load ista and do a full id on your car it will display the ilevel at the
time the car was built and what it is now.
Most people don't need the latest I level to do basic coding or diagnostics on there car.

https://www.e90post.com/forums/showp...48&postcount=2

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gbalthrop

Thanks, all of that makes sense, and yes, I'm probably using Mike's setup (been long enough I've forgotten although I do still have recorded notes). Gotta get the necessary data from somewhere, and your explanation suggests different versions have done it different ways.

I do plan on installing BG version sometime this winter. BTW, have you found any glaring errors in German>English translation in BG version (like Print for Pressure, or Worse)? I assume Menus have been translated to English? What about Fault Code Definitions or other data readout -- is that still (mostly) in German requiring translation, or is BG version nearly ALL English?

Thanks again,
George

Unfortunately a all English version of INPA just doesn't exist, at least to my knowledge. I will say the BG version and Wildcats are probably the best with the main menus and the most used sub menus in English. Fault codes definitions are still in German. It's still hit and miss.

I get why most people like to use INPA, it installs easily, loads quickly, relatively intuitive, and performs quite a few useful functions. ISTA/D blows it away. Yes I know, some have a hard time installing it, understanding how to use it, doesn't load as quickly, etc. but if you're going to spend more than a couple minutes at a time with INPA or really need to get into diagnostics, adaptions, and general platform knowledge it's the only way to go, and it's completely English.

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gjm120

I know wrong forum, but, this discussion is very pertinent to me now. I have the BG Std Tools installed and have used it successfully to do some simple coding. I want to use NCS Dummy to disassemble and reassemble my FRM module (trying to change blinker count).
Do I need the full E89 Daten file? If so, does it get used properly being a separate folder on "C" drive?

NCS Dummy's pathway to daten is C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ so if that folder is there and contains a sub folder E89 which is full (you'll be able to tell if it is by the files inside) then you're good to go.

You'll start with the disassembly tab, Daten file for disassembly, browse (takes you straight to NCSEXPER\DATEN), click on your correct FRM file, Open, now save the disassembled file to your desktop. Now open it on your desktop, if it asks you to pick a program, use Notepad and make it the default for the future. Now under the Edit tab, use find and search for MIND_ANZ_ZYKL_TIPP_BLK, 1, 2, 3 (four parameters all together)

PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1 : 0007 (01) // wert_01
PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1 : 002F (03) // wert_02

This is what you're looking for, wert_01 represents the single blink, indicated by the 01 in parentheses, wert_02 is the triple blink (03). You can change either one to whatever blink # you want (up to 7 I believe) do this with all four parameters, just remember to use the correct option in Idrive settings or BC to access the new blink option.

Now with the daten modified, using the file tab, use Save As, hit Save, you'll get a pop up, this file already exists, do you want to replace, hit yes. You can go back to the file on your desktop now and check it to make sure the changes you made are there if you wish.

Back to Dummy, under Disassembled file for assembly, browse, navigate to that file you just made on your desktop, click on it, Open, double click on E89, Save, and confirm Save , yes.

If you want to confirm you can just open Dummy, load that FRM module, navigate to those parameters and check your wert values.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

NCS Dummy's pathway to daten is C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ so if that folder is there and contains a sub folder E89 which is full (you'll be able to tell if it is by the files inside) then you're good to go.

You'll start with the disassembly tab, Daten file for disassembly, browse (takes you straight to NCSEXPER\DATEN), click on your correct FRM file, Open, now save the disassembled file to your desktop. Now open it on your desktop, if it asks you to pick a program, use Notepad and make it the default for the future. Now under the Edit tab, use find and search for MIND_ANZ_ZYKL_TIPP_BLK, 1, 2, 3 (four parameters all together)

PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1 : 0007 (01) // wert_01
PARZUWEISUNG_PSW1 : 002F (03) // wert_02

This is what you're looking for, wert_01 represents the single blink, indicated by the 01 in parentheses, wert_02 is the triple blink (03). You can change either one to whatever blink # you want (up to 7 I believe) do this with all four parameters, just remember to use the correct option in Idrive settings or BC to access the new blink option.

Now with the daten modified, using the file tab, use Save As, hit Save, you'll get a pop up, this file already exists, do you want to replace, hit yes. You can go back to the file on your desktop now and check it to make sure the changes you made are there if you wish.

Back to Dummy, under Disassembled file for assembly, browse, navigate to that file you just made on your desktop, click on it, Open, double click on E89, Save, and confirm Save , yes.

If you want to confirm you can just open Dummy, load that FRM module, navigate to those parameters and check your wert values.

Many thanks. What you described is what I've been learning to do on an unconnected computer so as not to make a mess. Thanks to your post and help from Sensible on a thread I started in the Coding sub-forum I think I'm ready to do this job.

What scared me is that this is a little step beyond simple coding which I see as more of toggling features on & off. It seems like an in between coding and programming. (I guess the battery coding I've done counters that argument since you enter specific values.)

Is it correct to say if one never uses WinkFP the huge Daten files are never called on by the programs & are completely redundant?

[hassmaschine]

NCSexpert is only coding. Not programming. That's what WinKFP does.

You don't even *really* need all of the files for WinKFP. You just need the specific files for your car (I use expert mode though).

[LMB335IS]

Originally Posted by gjm120

Many thanks. What you described is what I've been learning to do on an unconnected computer so as not to make a mess. Thanks to your post and help from Sensible on a thread I started in the Coding sub-forum I think I'm ready to do this job.

What scared me is that this is a little step beyond simple coding which I see as more of toggling features on & off. It seems like an in between coding and programming. (I guess the battery coding I've done counters that argument since you enter specific values.)

Is it correct to say if one never uses WinkFP the huge Daten files are never called on by the programs & are completely redundant?

What I just described can be done to a unconnected LP. Really any daten manipulation can be done unconnected so no need to worry about messing up anything...yet, lol. Save a copy of the original before you change anything if you're worried about messing up, you can always just save it back to undo anything you've done.

If you're using a software pkg that already has C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ filled without having to download and upload the daten separately then there's no need to do so. Everything will function outside of WinKFP.

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

What I just described can be done to a unconnected LP. Really any daten manipulation can be done unconnected so no need to worry about messing up anything...yet, lol. Save a copy of the original before you change anything if you're worried about messing up, you can always just save it back to undo anything you've done.

If you're using a software pkg that already has C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ filled without having to download and upload the daten separately then there's no need to do so. Everything will function outside of WinKFP.

Give me time

[gjm120]

Originally Posted by LMB335IS

What I just described can be done to a unconnected LP. Really any daten manipulation can be done unconnected so no need to worry about messing up anything...yet, lol. Save a copy of the original before you change anything if you're worried about messing up, you can always just save it back to undo anything you've done.

If you're using a software pkg that already has C:\NCSEXPER\DATEN\ filled without having to download and upload the daten separately then there's no need to do so. Everything will function outside of WinKFP.

I got it to work somewhat. I changed the blink count for wert_1 and wert_2 to what I wanted. If I change the blink count option in idrive it reverts to the factory settings of 1 blink or 3 blinks. This is what people described with nettodat coding. So I need to just pick the number I want and not change the setting in the idrive. This is no big deal but it's got me curious as to why the settings get overwritten by the factory setting.

I was using the Manipulation profile in the Bimmergeeks NCSExpert tool. Could this have some effect?