[capt_and]

Since there are not a lot of threads of information out there for how the m240i handles on the track, I figured I would contribute a little information for the people who might be interested in buying this car as a track car or a double duty track/DD car.

I came from driving a '99 Boxster with incredible balance, slow, light, and easy to drive. Whenever I switched to the m240i, it was drastically different.

First time out:
Dinan springs (was told by Dinan that they would be good for track)
Ground control camber plates
Alignment -2.75 camber front; -2.25 camber rear, 0 toe front; 1/8 toe in rear
Stock wheels/MPSS
Brakes - stock
Weather/track conditions - wet

The first thing that I noticed was how difficult it is to control in Sport + in auto mode. The tranny kickdowns are very abrupt. As I came out of a corner, using the throttle very judiciously, the car decided that I must be trying to go fast and dropped 2 gears. Of course it sent the tail out and I wound up off of the track. The rest of the day was frustrating since I would only apply any meaningful amount of throttle whenever the car was relatively straight. The next day, I switched it to manual mode and it was much better. I also had the rear camber changed to -1.75. I kept it in Comfort because that is what gives me the most linear power delivery. Although traction out of corners was massively improved the second day, the car still consistently lost rear traction coming out of corners. The rear of the car also responded very poorly to bumps, very bouncy - I attribute that to the Dinan springs/bump stops. Brakes were soft by the last run.

Second time:
Ohlins coilovers
Ground control camber plates
M Perf LSD
Alignment -2.7 camber front; -2.2 camber rear, 1/8 toe out front; 1/8 toe in rear
Stock wheels/MPSS
Brakes - stock
Weather/track condition - wet

Muuuch better with the Ohlins over the Dinan springs. The Ohlins were a lot more predictable. I am still using the manual mode in comfort throttle mapping. The car comes screaming out of the corners with about 70% more throttle than before. Overall, the car is a lot more predictable and linear.

However, there are 4 issues I am trying to solve. (1) the tires hate water and I don't know why. MPSS are supposed to be good in water but I was slipping all over. My instructor was even surprised that it slipped whenever it did. (2) The car is heavy. There isn't much I can do about this since I use it as a DD as well and I don't want to give up all of the comfort items. I wish it didn't have a sunroof.... (3) No head room. I am short at 5'8" and even with the seat all the way down, my helmet is 1/4" from the headliner. That's after I reclined the seat a bit, in a more upright seating position, the helmet is touching the headliner. All of the instructors that have sat in my car had head clearance issues as well. Their heights and seating positions varied but still the same problem. I will it didn't have a sunroof. (4) The seat belts don't have the locking feature where you can pull it all the way out to lock it. I have the CG Lock but it doesn't do anything to secure the upper body. The seats offer very little bolster support. Sure, they are adjustable, but they are still tiny.

[Sail Boat]

Agree on the Dinan springs - to me, the car feels a bit underdamped. On the street, the springs are fine but not an upgrade for track use.

Ohlins - what did you do to bypass the computer? Any issues with the dynamic steering particularly during daily driving?

LSD - how do you like it? Notice any difference? 25% lock seems light but I assume it is probably enough to notice a difference?

On the helmet - I'm 6'0 and I've got plenty of room. I use a Simpson bandit, think of the OG Stig. If using an open face helmet, I feel like they typically sit taller than full face alternatives.

Traction control - are you driving with DSC off or just DTC?

[capt_and]

You can code out the EDC. I paid someone to do it since my e-sys stopped working after Dec 31, 2017 and I haven't been motivated enough to get it up and running again. No issues at all on daily driving. Sport and Sport + modes still change steering weight and throttle response.

LSD - It is indeed mild but there is a noticeable difference. Before I had the LSD installed, there were some corner exits I had to baby or I would lose the end. While I can't quite go all out with the LSD, I can certainly add extra throttle and come out the corner considerably hotter. It's a very good compromise for track and street. I just had track pads installed and can hear the DTC/e-diff kicking in on some tight turns.

Head room- Do you have a sunroof? How far back do you recline? Every single person that has stepped into my car with a helmet has made a comment about headroom. My helmet hits 3 areas, the headliner directly above the helmet, headline above the window, and the head rest. Reclining the seat solved all of those issues but is a sub-optimal driving position. But, even with the seat reclined, if I hit a bump, I will still hit the headliner. I use the Bell EV Sport.

Traction - I am running DTC. There isn't any reason to run all nannies off in my opinion, the DTC allows for the most grip in my experience. My thought process is: if race teams across the board are trying to sneak nannies into their cars because the nannies produce faster times, who am I to say I am better than those drivers? Sure their nannies are more sophisticated, but they are also more sophisticated drivers.

[bryan_G01]

All that work and your still on mpss and stock brake pads and fluid???

Get some re71r's or nitto 01s to see what the car is capable of. For pads, at least run some yellow stuff pads with Motul 600 fluid. For full track, get some PFC 08's.

For track, run the car in full DSC off.

Just my .02.

[capt_and]

I am going to keep running street tires to maximize learning. Once I can get max lap times in with streets I will move to R compounds.

Yes I had Motul 600 brake fluid and Motul 8100 engine oil.

Carbotech XP10 front and G Loc 1656 rears ready for this weekend.

[Anthony235]

Was there standing water on the track? If so then MPSS will not be able to hand that (or most any tire). If it was just wet out you would be surprised how much a tire will still grip. RS3 for example will actually steam water off once in the pits cause they are still able to generate a lot of heat/grip. I've done a few track days in the wet and some serious down pours. Good fun.

Was this on a road coarse or autocross? You might want to look at your front toe settings. You're car could feel a little darty with toe out up front, but everyone has a different preference.

I'm 5-10 with a sunroof. No helmet clearance issues with me.

[capt_and]

Road course. Yes, little spots of standing water but not deep. One of the most fun days I’ve had on track was when the entire thing froze over and a decision was made to run. Nothing like learning car control at low speed. I actually like toe out, not darty at all in my opinion.

Do you have the power seats or manual? Maybe I just prefer to sit more upright than others?

[cxp213]

What tracks and lap times?

You should get some decent summer tires on there for your next outing. All season tires, especially at stock sizes, aren't enough for a car this size, weight, and power.

I wish the seats were better, too, or at least more comfortable than they are. As for the electronic nannies, you will outgrow them with more seat time. As you said, they're not sophisticated enough and don't have the proper thresholds programmed for performance driving so they could actually be more dangerous (or a hindrance) for someone who's more experienced.

[capt_and]

Motorsport Ranch Cresson.

I was on MPSS, not all seasons. There was one guy that weekend on all seasons and he ran like a champ through all of the water! This upcoming weekend I will be running 8.5" front and 9" rear wheels on Extremecontract Sports.

There is no doubt I need more seat time, I am relatively inexperienced and have a TON to learn. I am in blue or blue solo with the PCA, Driver's Edge; intermeidate with Apex; HPDE3 with NASA. I get what you are saying with the nannies do hope that one day I am a more sophisticated driver than the car. This article is ultimately what convinced me to go ahead and keep DTC on for a nice long while: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...n-do-in-a-car/


I noticed that you are in Dallas. Do you get out to track much?

[cxp213]

^ That article is geared more towards novices so it makes sense to advise them to leave their traction control on since they don't yet have the skill or experience. However, as you become more skilled, you will realize that it becomes more of a hindrance as you can't accurately predict how the car will behave with those things on.

There was a time when I used to autox/track/drift once or twice every weekend, but I don't get out as much as I used to anymore. On the track, I'm out there with the advanced or the instructors group, depending on the club. I just realized that we messaged each other about local events several months back, lol.

[capt_and]

This is the part of the article that resonated the most for me:

"Consider the following: Formula One drivers are the best drivers in the world (save it, NASCAR and rally fans, you know I'm right) and yet the race teams used to move heaven and earth to install secret traction control systems to help them. If Michael Schumacher or Lewis Hamilton can benefit from a little computer intervention, so can you."

That's right, I thought the username looked familiar!

[cxp213]

Those F1 teams tailor those systems to each individual driving, track, conditions, etc with a ridiculous budget. Regardless, there's no harm in leaving your factory traction control stuff on, so by all means! Just make sure you're watching your mirrors and the flags.

[Anthony235]

Originally Posted by capt_and

Road course. Yes, little spots of standing water but not deep. One of the most fun days I’ve had on track was when the entire thing froze over and a decision was made to run. Nothing like learning car control at low speed. I actually like toe out, not darty at all in my opinion.

Do you have the power seats or manual? Maybe I just prefer to sit more upright than others?

Power seats. I sit pretty upright. I like to be able to lay my wrist on the top of the steering wheel without leaning forward. Make sure you seats are set to the lowest position. I have mine down as far as possible.

Perhaps our helmets are different...

[tennisfreak]

Originally Posted by capt_and

Motorsport Ranch Cresson.

I was on MPSS, not all seasons. There was one guy that weekend on all seasons and he ran like a champ through all of the water! This upcoming weekend I will be running 8.5" front and 9" rear wheels on Extremecontract Sports.

There is no doubt I need more seat time, I am relatively inexperienced and have a TON to learn. I am in blue or blue solo with the PCA, Driver's Edge; intermeidate with Apex; HPDE3 with NASA. I get what you are saying with the nannies do hope that one day I am a more sophisticated driver than the car. This article is ultimately what convinced me to go ahead and keep DTC on for a nice long while: https://www.roadandtrack.com/car-cul...n-do-in-a-car/


I noticed that you are in Dallas. Do you get out to track much?

I just signed up for the MSRC weekend June 9,10!

My M240i is about 2 months old and this will be my first time on the track so I will be in the Novice instructor led group.

I had just planned on changing the oil and taking the car to the track.
I was thinking the car is new enough that the stock brake fluid and pad would be fine for the first day especially since I will be in the novice group.

I am not a complete track rookie, I have done:
Ron Fellows Corvette driving school weekend in a 2015 C7.
California Superbike school at Laguna Seca on a BMW S1000RR
Eagles Canyon Raceway track day on a 2012 Suzuki GSXR 600

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by tennisfreak

I just signed up for the MSRC weekend June 9,10!

My M240i is about 2 months old and this will be my first time on the track so I will be in the Novice instructor led group.

I had just planned on changing the oil and taking the car to the track.
I was thinking the car is new enough that the stock brake fluid and pad would be fine for the first day especially since I will be in the novice group.

I am not a complete track rookie, I have done:
Ron Fellows Corvette driving school weekend in a 2015 C7.
California Superbike school at Laguna Seca on a BMW S1000RR
Eagles Canyon Raceway track day on a 2012 Suzuki GSXR 600

Nice! I took my car on track after 3 weeks (after break in of course). I assume you are doing driver's edge? They have the BEST green instruction hands down.

I totally recommend getting the brake fluids done. One day, novice, whatever it may be, you are going to be hitting your brakes hard. Half way through the third/fourth session, your brakes may go soft and you'll wish you had it done. Yes, you can run stock pads to start with.

Texas Track Works in Ft Worth is the go to place for track BMWs. That's the only place I would ever recommend. Keep in mind, it is track/race season so you'll probably have to book 2 weeks out but they are very fast once you get in. I think a brake fluid flush is under $100 there. They love working with m235i/m240i and have worked on the m235i racing before so they definitely know their stuff. Give them a call and tell them Quin sent you and they'll take care of you.

Whenever I started, they basically told me I could run stock everything except fluids until I decide that tracking is something I'd like to do seriously. Next up would be suspension/tires/wheels. That should last you awhile - then you get pads. I also recommend the LSD just to make the car a little more predictably. So far, I have camber plates, coilovers, LSD, pads, bigger wheels/tires. If you do decide to get serious and start setting up your car, it will be pretty easy for you since I've been the test mule for a bunch of stuff. They will probably tell you the same thing they told me: patience on the mods. Do one thing at a time and figure out what is needed next instead of spending a ton of money on stuff you might not need.

You'll love MSR-C, it is a terrific track that a few pros call home. My first time was in November and I've done 12 days and have improved every time with a lot of guidance from instructors and TTW. You'll probably find yourself hooked like most people. On my current set-up (basically a street car on street tires with better suspension and pads), I am currently at 1:29.2 on the 1.7 CCW. Once I hit 1:27s I will upgrade to stickier tires. My goal is to get out there at least 2 times a month and get to 1:25 by this fall. TTW hooked me up with Eric Foss for some coaching so I think my goal is realistic.

Anyways, if you get hooked like me, it gets really expensive... Seat time, tires, and brakes will be the biggest expenses.

[cxp213]

You guys should post up in the regional section next time you head to the track. I'll try to come out there with you guys, if I can.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by cxp213

You guys should post up in the regional section next time you head to the track. I'll try to come out there with you guys, if I can.

The regional section of this forum is basically dead :/. Anyways, I am going to try and go out there on Friday for the 3.1 member's day since there is a PCA event on that Saturday and Sunday. You're welcome to join.

[capt_and]

I'd like to follow-up on the nannies discussion. I was wrong.

The DTC and DSC on these cars aren't the most sophisticated. They prevent the car from being driven anywhere near the limit; they also use up brakes.

I keep everything off at this point but even still find that there is some underlying system that steps in under very high slip situations.

[SteveInfante]

Originally Posted by capt_and

I'd like to follow-up on the nannies discussion. I was wrong.

The DTC and DSC on these cars aren't the most sophisticated. They prevent the car from being driven anywhere near the limit; they also use up brakes.

I keep everything off at this point but even still find that there is some underlying system that steps in under very high slip situations.

That kind of sucks. I drove my car in full DSC off last time and it was alright. I wasn't near the limit of the car but the tires. I had that same problem with stability control interference in my 2013 Mustang GT in the turn 5 right hand kink at Hockenheimring at 95+mph. Scary the first time that happened. Iat least in the 2er I won't have to deal with also managing the weight of the car as well.

[capt_and]

Originally Posted by SteveInfante

That kind of sucks. I drove my car in full DSC off last time and it was alright. I wasn't near the limit of the car but the tires. I had that same problem with stability control interference in my 2013 Mustang GT in the turn 5 right hand kink at Hockenheimring at 95+mph. Scary the first time that happened. Iat least in the 2er I won't have to deal with also managing the weight of the car as well.

The 240i weighs roughly the same as the Mustang...

[SteveInfante]

Originally Posted by capt_and

The 240i weighs roughly the same as the Mustang...

In the 228 I have never felt like it was as cumbersome on the same tracks.