[3rdcoast228i]

According to this post... http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1380535

2 series (US) sales are down quite a bit. I contribute some of that to people waiting for the refresh, but not that much.

Is there a way, as owners, we can promote the car? It's a fantastic car that can and does get cross shopped with many brands and types.

However, I don't think a lot of people even know about the car. I'll admit, I was one of those people. I was looking for something, anything that is fun to drive, for a few months before I found this car. And only because I previously owned a 335i that made me take a look at BMW again.

[Deutsche-Broke]

The public that wants to know about it (and can afford it) already knows about it... Something to do with a probable high nine figure advertising budget, and the internet..

While I'm sure they appreciate the loyalty, I highly doubt that BMWNA needs a few thousand people on a bulletin board proselytizing a very small section of their model group..

They sell cars on a global stage. I doubt that owner enthusiasm plays a part.. I would imagine that sales numbers do.

[Mr Carrots]

The economy isn't great, people are cautious about what's going to happen and TBH most BMW cars have issues so I'm not surprised their total numbers are down while pre-owned are up.

Maybe if BMW were to offer MB and Audi quality interiors and didn't nickle and dime over things like smartphone integration that $15k econoboxes offer as standard they might be doing better. Most of their cars are looking dated compared to the competition and they insist on screwing us over things that should be standard. The least BMW-like BMW, the X1 is up the most so they should probably pay attention to what they're doing wrong. But they wont

[xantdieselx]

I kind of like the fact that are not a lot of 2 series out there. It was the same when I had my 135i. You just didn't see a lot of people driving them but it was a great little car. Same holds trie for the 2.

[harma24]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

I kind of like the fact that are not a lot of 2 series out there. It was the same when I had my 135i. You just didn't see a lot of people driving them but it was a great little car. Same holds trie for the 2.

I drove a Honda Prelude for 15 years. There were 2,000 of them sold in the US in 2001. I loved the fact that I had a unique car. Same with my 240! Let's keep it a secret!

[p912guy]

Decreasing 2 Series sales has been predictable for while now. Coupes and convertibles aren't as popular as they once were. Most folks want at least 4 doors and beyond that they want SUV's. Those of us that appreciate what the 2 Series is (small, nimble, fast and fun-to-drive) are a shrinking minority of car buyers. Audi's A3 and TT sales are falling off as well, as are Camaro and Mustang sales too. In fact all new vehicle sales are slowing, if not decreasing. Even recent hot sellers like F150's and Chevy Silverados are being heavily discounted these days. The used vehicle market is also soft as there is much more supply than demand with all the low mileage lease return vehicles available these days.

Auto and truck sales are cyclical like most consumer products. Cheap finance rates, low fuel costs, easy lease terms and most recently subprime auto lending has met any demand there was following the economic recovery of the past 6-8 years. Additionally, vehicles just last so much longer. Rust isn't the problem it was 15-20 years ago and most cars and trucks now go 200K plus miles without major mechanical issues. Finally, with more folks moving to congested metro areas with access to mass transit, Uber and businesses like Zip Car, there is less need to own a car. Further, Generations X, Y and Z are generally less interested in driving or owning their own vehicle and even if they wanted to own a new or slightly used vehicle, they have trouble affording one due high student loan debt.

All that said, I like owning and driving a car which is a bit rare. One of the many reasons I chose my M235i over a Mustang or Camaro was because it wasn't a common sight in the parking lot.

[BEM-S4]

Upside is maybe the 2GC will actually materialize.

[Dylan86]

I wonder if the mass of 235 owners bought out and/or kept ias opposed to getting into the '16-'17 240's. Possible, I suppose.. I wouldn't tank the 235 for a 240. Stock 235 to m2 maybe...

[caycep]

what worries me is that someone at BMW looks at this and the lion's share of the R&D budget esp w/ chassis, suspension, steering and drivetrain tech gets steered away from the coupes....

[3rdcoast228i]

Originally Posted by caycep

what worries me is that someone at BMW looks at this and the lion's share of the R&D budget esp w/ chassis, suspension, steering and drivetrain tech gets steered away from the coupes....

I hope not either...

There's definitely room for improvement. But no doubt this a great car with the potential to become much more.

[3rdcoast228i]

I fully understand and appreciate the uniqueness, it is one reason I bought the car.


I just want the car to be profitable (successful) so production will continue. Profitably will bring improvements also...

[msej449]

OK, so going to European Industry sources, the picture becomes clearer and the table in the linked post appears somewhat misleading. I've checked the Press Release against my sources, and the numbers are consistent. The linked post table shows only the April sales figures, and then adds these to the Q1 numbers to get a 'YTD April'. None of these stats is for a full year - basically, it's a 'Here's how Q1 has gone compared to last year' statement.

So, looking at some of the European Retail data for 2014-1017 sales numbers on a monthly basis from 2014 through Q1 2017, I'd make some observations:

In Europe the Convertible forms 44% of 2 series sales vs 56% for the Coupé (2016) and the Euro 2 series sales show big seasonal variations, both within the quarter and the year e.g. people tend not to take ownership so much in Q4 and Q1 to the same extent as in Q2 and Q3. One inference is that 'vert sales drop in the winter quarters. This may be the case in the US as well.

There's also a cyclic quarter-end hike in sales numbers for the 2, but this isn't always consistent: some years there's a year-on-year drop in numbers in the 3rd month of a quarter. I suspect that dealer incentives may push the focus on other models at quarter-end sometimes.

So projecting trends based on one April sales number and only Q1 is particularly uncertain. And this is what the original thread seems to do.

Here are some interesting figures from the EU industry databases and comments.

Sales numbers in both Europe and the USA have increased 2013-2016, year-on-year.
Year - Europe / USA
2016 - 33,461 / 15,519
2015 - 27,443 / 13,020
2014 - 13,981 / 7,240
2013 - 258 / 0

The 2 Series comprised a significant proportion of all BMW sales in the USA in 2016 - 12%

The ratio of US sales of the 2 Series to the 5 Series has been
2016 - 1:2
2015 - 1:3.4
2014 - 1:7.3
So if anything, the 2 is becoming much much more important to BMW USA. The European ratio of 2 vs 5 sales is 1:2.4 (2016), so the USA isn't far off being of similar importance as a 2 Series market.

There are certainly some worrying trends for BMW USA however. For example:

BMW market share in the USA has declined steadily 2014-16 at 2.06% > 1.98% > 1.79% respectively.

5 series sales in the USA have declined 2014-16 from (rounded) 53K > 44K > 32K

It's true (as in the linked post) that 2017 isn't looking as good as 2016 when you view the Jan-April inclusive numbers for the 2 Series. But (a) as I've said, this is very tricky to interpret given the consistently odd intra-quarter and annual fluctuations from historical 2 sales, (b) the variance isn't that big for the 2 Series and (c) this is against a background of much larger falls for other models, and overall.

In my experience these are the sort of numbers that get execs fired ...... But the 2 numbers have stood up well, hence the improvement in the 2 vs 5 ratio. And if I was responsible for 2 Series sales, I'd be going all-out to make sure that 2017 exceeded 2016 sales numbers (however little) so I could look like a beacon of good management compared to the other models.

So I'm encouraged by the numbers in terms of being a 2 Series devotee. And even if BMW is contracting in terms of market share and absolute units shipped, it looksl ike the 2 Series will be a more, rather than less, important model in the verall range.

An important caveat is that we have no idea about BMW's landed costs or margins. So it could be that the 5 has a higher profit margin than the average 2 and this would obviously change the analysis.

[Maynard]

Originally Posted by Mr Carrots

.... TBH most BMW cars have issues so I'm not surprised their total numbers are down while pre-owned are up.

Maybe if BMW were to offer MB and Audi quality interiors and didn't nickle and dime over things like smartphone integration that $15k econoboxes offer as standard they might be doing better. Most of their cars are looking dated compared to the competition and they insist on screwing us over things that should be standard. The least BMW-like BMW, the X1 is up the most so they should probably pay attention to what they're doing wrong. But they wont

I can't help but cringe at these kinds of posts - those issues didn't stop you (or me) from buying a BMW, and saying they have 'issues' is meaningless slander - EVERY car has some 'issues'. It paints enthusiasts as a bunch of nitpicking prima donnas - what I think of as the LAST group that is going to get love from big corporate. I think that a BIG part of the BMW brand value does come from enthusiast loyalty, and if 'we' start crowing about how these cars are now POS it will erode that. I don't know where the myth of the 'unreliable BMW' is churned up from, but it hurts any political sway we, as enthusiasts, might have, since we are the ones talking about it so much (you gotta assume s/b at BMW is reading all this, right, or you wouldn't be pontificating about what models you want to see - and those who bought a BMW as luxury transport are certainly not on a blog somewhere bitching about how darty and tight the ride is).

And kudos to msej449 for putting some facts back into this, restoring my faith that there really is still a market for something this fun, and so central to a niche that is fading away. Other than the TT, I really can't think of a direct competitor (Camaros and WRX's don't really count, to me).

[bimmerfile]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

According to this post... http://www.2addicts.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1380535

2 series (US) sales are down quite a bit. I contribute some of that to people waiting for the refresh, but not that much.

Is there a way, as owners, we can promote the car? It's a fantastic car that can and does get cross shopped with many brands and types.
.................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ............

1. Sales of the Audi A3 and MB CLA are down 30% and 50% respectively, so it's likely that market segment is down across the board.
2. One of the no-cost advantages of the 2er is its relative exclusivity - unlike the 3er and 4er which are ubiquitous.
3. I can't ever recall seeing advertisement (by BMW) for the 2er. The aura around the 2er was created mostly by car reviews (car mags, YouTube, etc) and word-of-mouth by owners and aficionados.
4. We're now ending the 4th year of 2er production and most of those who wanted a 2er (and can afford it) probably have one.
5. Additional new sales of the 2er will likely occur with the 2018 LCI and when a lot of current 2er owners come off lease.

[NVHoo]

Originally Posted by Maynard

I can't help but cringe at these kinds of posts - those issues didn't stop you (or me) from buying a BMW, and saying they have 'issues' is meaningless slander - EVERY car has some 'issues'. It paints enthusiasts as a bunch of nitpicking prima donnas - what I think of as the LAST group that is going to get love from big corporate. I think that a BIG part of the BMW brand value does come from enthusiast loyalty, and if 'we' start crowing about how these cars are now POS it will erode that. I don't know where the myth of the 'unreliable BMW' is churned up from, but it hurts any political sway we, as enthusiasts, might have, since we are the ones talking about it so much (you gotta assume s/b at BMW is reading all this, right, or you wouldn't be pontificating about what models you want to see - and those who bought a BMW as luxury transport are certainly not on a blog somewhere bitching about how darty and tight the ride is).

He's far from saying the car is a POS. However, having to spend $2250 extra to get features that are standard in virtually any car (garage door opener, auto dimming mirror, power front seats) is very annoying and not a "prima donna" comment. A 2 series convertible is on my short list for my next car but it really bothers me that the MSRP is bogus when you compare standard features with its competition and the only way to not get the so called "premium" package is to special order. I consider the BMW to be a premium car and should be equipped accordingly, and not be not nickel and dimed.

[Rayscott]

Originally Posted by harma24

I drove a Honda Prelude for 15 years. There were 2,000 of them sold in the US in 2001. I loved the fact that I had a unique car. Same with my 240! Let's keep it a secret!

Same here with my 2 Honda S2000's. People were always asking me about what it was. Cant believe Honda stopped making it. At 34K it was the best bargain of any sports car.

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by NVHoo

He's far from saying the car is a POS. However, having to spend $2250 extra to get features that are standard in virtually any car (garage door opener, auto dimming mirror, power front seats) is very annoying and not a "prima donna" comment. A 2 series convertible is on my short list for my next car but it really bothers me that the MSRP is bogus when you compare standard features with its competition and the only way to not get the so called "premium" package is to special order. I consider the BMW to be a premium car and should be equipped accordingly, and not be not nickel and dimed.

You need to qualify the "every car" comment when you say things are standard. Just take a 230 coupe - what are people REALLY cross shopping that against. A3 and CLA? What else? Last I looked Audi didn't come with garage door opener either, and that's just one example.

Sure a guy I know at work drives a civic with all kinds of advanced tech. But he's driving and f*cking civic. I'd take a 2-series with manual everything and a tape deck over that.

[Maynard]

I know what you mean, and I also get peeved at bundling all the stuff together, but I think you are bought into the merchandising doubletalk (aka 'man math'). Nothing on a car is free. If they 'equip it accordingly' you pay for it, without a choice. Your reasoning is exactly why the cheapo cars do that - it makes buyers feel that 'wow, I get ALL THIS as standard - better equipped than my neighbor's BMW' but they DO pay for it. Having options this way helps keep it on the cheap end of the spectrum, which is its only reason to exist (I wish it was all a la carte, like Porsche). If it costs big and is fully equipped like a 4-series, they'd just kill the line - already rumblings about consolidation this way. Plus I'd have to start my own prima donna'ing that the once basic, nimble and pure sports coupe was now larded up with excess luxo-crap.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by 3rdcoast228i

I fully understand and appreciate the uniqueness, it is one reason I bought the car.

.

Ditto

It is a very unique car with few competitors

MB is more expensive and in a different niche

The "Four rings of death" offers the TT but its a 4 banger only with dual clutch and AWD only

The 240 is in a class of its own with the RWD/6MT option and optional xdrive with rear wheel bias

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by fbsm

Ditto

It is a very unique car with few competitors

MB is more expensive and in a different niche

The "Four rings of death" offers the TT but its a 4 banger only with dual clutch and AWD only

The 240 is in a class of its own with the RWD/6MT option and optional xdrive with rear wheel bias

That xDrive with rear bias is a huge selling point. Benz you have to step up to a C to get away from that FWD architecture / biased AWD bullshit. The 2 is truly unique in its niche there.

[wdc330i]

Originally Posted by NVHoo

He's far from saying the car is a POS. However, having to spend $2250 extra to get features that are standard in virtually any car (garage door opener, auto dimming mirror, power front seats) is very annoying and not a "prima donna" comment. A 2 series convertible is on my short list for my next car but it really bothers me that the MSRP is bogus when you compare standard features with its competition and the only way to not get the so called "premium" package is to special order. I consider the BMW to be a premium car and should be equipped accordingly, and not be not nickel and dimed.

I think BMW considers itself a sporting brand more so than "premium." And the emphasis is on making sporty performance accessible and luxury features optional. So, you can spec a 230i with stick and track handling package for $35K msrp (and probably buy it for less out the door) and have yourself a hell of a car. Everything else is gravy (and comes at an additional cost.)

[USA-RET]

Originally Posted by fbsm

Ditto

It is a very unique car with few competitors

MB is more expensive and in a different niche

The "Four rings of death" offers the TT but its a 4 banger only with dual clutch and AWD only

The 240 is in a class of its own with the RWD/6MT option and optional xdrive with rear wheel bias

Having test drove the TTS and then the M240i, I can tell you, the BMW has better performance and is much more fun to drive. While I liked the seats in the Audi better than the BMW (the cross stitching is very nice), everything else were all check marks in the BMW column for reasons to buy.

Certainly we can complain about having to add features (that cost) to our car, but for marketing purposes and to separate the different series w/ standard features vs. options makes some sense. If you want a eye-opener, price out a base Porsche Cayman (at least they don't charge extra for the air in the tires)

The 2 series (IMO) is a great value for the money. Someone, that wants to drive a nice car can buy the 230 w/ few options and have a fun to drive BMW. Adding all the extras does not change the basic car, but can make one look higher up the product line for a car than has those extra features (this goes to the marketing aspect).

I could not be happier w/ my M240i. It offers the performance (especially w/ the Dinan Stage 1), and level of comfort I wanted @ a price I couldn't find w/ any of its competitors.