[waxy]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/1-s...drive-platform

Looks like the next 1 series will be built on the new UKL platform, which apparently cannot accommodate 6 cylinder engines.

Assuming the 2 series gets built off the same platform, could we be seeing the end of our beloved six potters??!!

Think that would be a crying shame as I think the engine and rwd are what really make the 2-er stand out from the crowd.

[German1967]

Originally Posted by waxy

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/1-s...drive-platform

Looks like the next 1 series will be built on the new UKL platform, which apparently cannot accommodate 6 cylinder engines.

Assuming the 2 series gets built off the same platform, could we be seeing the end of our beloved six potters??!!

Think that would be a crying shame as I think the engine and rwd are what really make the 2-er stand out from the crowd.

Agree, that would be a real disappointment.

[RoundelM3]

Never assume...and there's no indication that the 2-Series will use the Mini platform like the current X1. Much ado about pure speculation.

[Maynard]

And aren't they using the 6 in everything up through the 7-series? Can't imagine selling a 4-cylinder 7-series (or 5-series) in the next decade. Eventually cylinder count won't matter, probably right about the time men start bragging about being better lovers, instead of having huge penises.

But agreed that the straight-six is a BMW stalwart, one of the defining features, and one of the great motor-families; disturbing to even consider it going away.

[p912guy]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Never assume...and there's no indication that the 2-Series will use the Mini platform like the current X1. Much ado about pure speculation.

Hope you're right, but the linked article includes this quote "We can expect new versions of the 2 Series Coupé and Convertible to follow the 1 Series at the end of 2019, and these will also adopt a front-wheel-drive layout".

If that's correct, it very well may be the end of the 2er in the US as we know it. It would make sense considering BMW's comments about shrinking their model offerings and considering the current 2 Series sales as a percentage of total sales is fairly small and shrinking. Even though I have the M235i, the 228/230 prove the 4 cylinder engine isn't the concern. The bigger change would be loss of RWD in favor of FWD. If it were to come about, I think it would truly change the character of the car whether 4 cyl or 6 cyl.

Porsche made the move from 6 cyl to 4 cyl in the Boxster/Cayman as the 981 became the 718 and while both the base and "S" versions are both technically faster due to increased torque and HP, sales are off about 50%, due to this change and also due NA's move away from sporty cars toward SUV's, etc. Let's face it, the market for folks like us who value driving a lightweight, fun, sporty car is quickly shrinking being replaced by buyers value tech, convenience and even autonomous transportation more.

Only time will tell, but those of us with the M235/M240 may have more reasons to preserve our car's for the long run. Who knows, in years to come our cars may be talked about in the same way folks talk about E-46 today

[BEM-S4]

Originally Posted by p912guy

Hope you're right, but the linked article includes this quote "We can expect new versions of the 2 Series Coupé and Convertible to follow the 1 Series at the end of 2019, and these will also adopt a front-wheel-drive layout".

If that's correct, it very well may be the end of the 2er in the US as we know it. It would make sense considering BMW's comments about shrinking their model offerings and considering the current 2 Series sales as a percentage of total sales is fairly small and shrinking. Even though I have the M235i, the 228/230 prove the 4 cylinder engine isn't the concern. The bigger change would be loss of RWD in favor of FWD. If it were to come about, I think it would truly change the character of the car whether 4 cyl or 6 cyl.

Porsche made the move from 6 cyl to 4 cyl in the Boxster/Cayman as the 981 became the 718 and while both the base and "S" versions are both technically faster due to increased torque and HP, sales are off about 50%, due to this change and also due NA's move away from sporty cars toward SUV's, etc. Let's face it, the market for folks like us who value driving a lightweight, fun, sporty car is quickly shrinking being replaced by buyers value tech, convenience and even autonomous transportation more.

Only time will tell, but those of us with the M235/M240 may have more reasons to preserve our car's for the long run. Who knows, in years to come our cars may be talked about in the same way folks talk about E-46 today

There are a host of factors at play but either this gen or hopefully the next gen 2-series (so we have another run of good cars) may very well be the last of the great "drivers cars" as we'd consider them today. Emissions, economy, autonomy, safety, electric, hybrid, etc etc all point to a less engaging driving experience. Most industry experts I talk to say around 10 years from now will be the major inflection point. Granted they've always said 10 years out but it seems more real now.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by BEM-S4

There are a host of factors at play but either this gen or hopefully the next gen 2-series (so we have another run of good cars) may very well be the last of the great "drivers cars" as we'd consider them today. Emissions, economy, autonomy, safety, electric, hybrid, etc etc all point to a less engaging driving experience. Most industry experts I talk to say around 10 years from now will be the major inflection point. Granted they've always said 10 years out but it seems more real now.

So long as there is demand for a "Drivers Car" or "Performance" vehicles there will be manufacturers that offer them.

I dont see americas love affair with personal transportation decreasing anytime in the forseeable future and to be honest most of the changes/features are being pushed by manufacturers either via lobbying government to implement a mandate for them or by pushing them hard on consumers in order to drive up profits

Ultimately though one needs to look at sales of basic cars like the toyota corrolla and the price point it exists in/feature set that is sold along with the largest segment of the market to where the trend is NOT going vs where people seem to WANT it to go

[waxy]

Originally Posted by roundel335

Never assume...and there's no indication that the 2-Series will use the Mini platform like the current X1. Much ado about pure speculation.

Given the current 2 series is based on the same platform as the 1 series, it is fairly safe to assume this would be true for the next generation as well. Hardly a leap of faith.

[waxy]

Originally Posted by Maynard

And aren't they using the 6 in everything up through the 7-series? Can't imagine selling a 4-cylinder 7-series (or 5-series) in the next decade. Eventually cylinder count won't matter, probably right about the time men start bragging about being better lovers, instead of having huge penises.

But agreed that the straight-six is a BMW stalwart, one of the defining features, and one of the great motor-families; disturbing to even consider it going away.

Not really a direct comparison, because the 5 and 7 series are built on different platforms which can obviously still support the larger engines.

The fact is I think it is fairly inevitable that the 1 & 2 series will lose the 6 pot engine, because that is the way most manufacturers are going with their smaller cars to meet emissions targets

[pz619]

I don't know. From what most of the rumor threads around here (the credible threads) is that the 2 coupe/convertible would remain RWD. If it becomes FWD/AWD all that means is that I take my money to another car.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by pz619

I don't know. From what most of the rumor threads around here (the credible threads) is that the 2 coupe/convertible would remain RWD. If it becomes FWD/AWD all that means is that I take my money to another car.

I seem to recall a thread along those lines that quoted a high yuckity yuck at BMW making a statement that M cars would not be FWD and they would continue to sell MT's so long as there was demand for them.

The simple fact of the matter is that the M2 is built on the same chassis that the 2 series is build on as I understand it

So unless the M2 is going to "Go Away" OR BMW does something really dumb like turn the M2 into a FWD/AWD vehicle then dont expect a major shake up of the 2 series any time soon

[fbsm]

Why is it that there seems to be a never ending list of folks that come to a BMW site and seemingly cheer on features/elimination of things that are central to BMW's "identity" as a car company

[Gabrola]

Next generation 2 Series has already been confirmed to be built on the new rear-wheel drive architecture so no worries.

The fate of the 1 series is looking gloomy though. According to previous rumors, the next 1 series will carry the 2 series badge and new smaller hatchback will be introduced under the 1 series name. Whether either of these will be RWD or both will be FWD is still unknown.

[M235iguy]

As long as x-drive is offered and produces more power, some of us arent stuck on the true driving experience myth of rwd / manual.

[waxy]

Originally Posted by fbsm

Why is it that there seems to be a never ending list of folks that come to a BMW site and seemingly cheer on features/elimination of things that are central to BMW's "identity" as a car company

Don't think I was cheering the possible loss of the 6 cylinder engine if you bothered to read the OP.

For the record I currently own a M235i convertible and an X6, so am not some Audi or MB fan boy come along to stir up trouble

[allthatisntnow]

I can quite easily see the next M140i being a BMW version of the A45 AMG. Highly tuned B48 with x-drive. Hope that the 2er coupe remains rwd as the 3er looks to be sizing up again. Although BMW can justify dropping the B58 from the 2er as its used in all the larger models anyway, it would be a shame if they did. Will be interesting to see how this pans out.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by waxy

Given the current 2 series is based on the same platform as the 1 series, it is fairly safe to assume this would be true for the next generation as well. Hardly a leap of faith.

I disagree. If that were true, then where would the M2 abd M235/M240 go? As popular as they are, would BMW simply drop them in favor of a FWD platform? I can see the hatchback 1-series going to the Mini platform like the X1, which used to be based on the E8x chassis, but they never brought the hatchback 1-series to the US. There just wasn't enough demand. It's been well-known that they are going to produce a 1-series sedan that will be FWD, but again, it's not for the US market.

The original post here decried the "death of the 6-cylinder engine", which is hardly true. The 3, 4, 5, 6, and even the 7-series have an inline-6 option, and BMW isn't likely to discontinue one of the most popular and awarded engines in the world. Doing so would likely be a seriously bad business decision.

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by waxy

Don't think I was cheering the possible loss of the 6 cylinder engine if you bothered to read the OP.

For the record I currently own a M235i convertible and an X6, so am not some Audi or MB fan boy come along to stir up trouble

I dont mean to target you

Its just that there seems to be a never ending litany of hyped up/over exagerated cheerleading stories on drivers forums and even some driving publications cheerleading the impending doom/death of personal transportation/performance vehicles

[crabu2]

This discussion is going no where because ultimately, we can't change what BMW might/will do.

As for FWD coming to the 2 series... it's happening in China. That doesn't mean it's going to happen in the US or some other place, but it could.

Bottom line is FWD 2 series is already here.. whether it comes to the US or some other place, is up to BMW. Then it's up to us as consumers on whether we would buy the FWD BMW or look somewhere else.

[Fugly M3]

If Porsche's gone to four bangers in their 718 S models...why wouldn't BMW do it in the 2er. In fact, the 4 will probably be the top end engine...the base cars will likely be 3 bangers!

[fbsm]

Originally Posted by E46M54325Ci

If Porsche's gone to four bangers in their 718 S models...why wouldn't BMW do it in the 2er. In fact, the 4 will probably be the top end engine...the base cars will likely be 3 bangers!

Given BMW's investment in the "B" series modular engines and its abandonment of the 3 pot engine in the Mini line for the B48 I dont see any reason why they would FOLLOW other companies instead of distinguishing themselves further

The 6 pot engine insnt going anywhere

You dont buy a BMW to fit in with the rest of the lemmings....or most dont at least

[crabu2]

3,4,6,8,12 cylinders doesn't matter. It's about efficiency and power output with the least amount of weight as possible for a given application.

10 years ago, you needed a 8 cylinder to get the power of the current 6s. And you needed a 6 for what you can get out of an 4. As emissions becomes more and more strict and governments trying to force it by limiting the size, in addition to how much emissions an engine outs out, car manufactures will reduce the engine size as long as they can get enough power at that reduced size.

We know 2L 4 bangers now can put out around 300hp. How reliable they are at this power output, I don't know, but the manufactures know. And if a M240i has to comes with a 4 banger, but kept the current power output, what difference is it going to make? If anything for weight distribution, it would be a bit better.

I guess what I'm saying is don't get stuck on engine size... because if a smaller engine can do the same as the larger, over all, it'll probably give you a better handling car.

What you need to worry about is the layout.. Will it stay RWD or go FWD like most of the industry? If it went FWD, might the current closest thing be a Genesis Coup?