[crabu2]

I've never owned a BMW, but have friends that have or had them. Some love them, others run as fast as they can from them.. The ones that run say they have to many problems. None have ever been left on the side of the road, but they say things just break and costs a small fortune to fix.. things like window motors, wipers, leaks and what not. Had one that had so much carbon buildup on his valves, it had to get walnut shelled.. BTW, I did look it up..

So now I'm looking for a new daily driver and I want a convertible that gets great MPG. My daily commute is 67 miles one way. Most of my driving is on I95 from near the DE/MD line to just north of Washington DC. I've been commuting in A Toyota Camry and have been getting about 29mpg. It's time to retire it as I've got 250K miles on it. The only thing this car has needed was an O2 sensor, tires, and oil changes... basic maintenance.

I took a test drive in a 230ix convertible yesterday. I was a bit shocked at the turbo lag when trying to pass on the interstate. I expected it to have close to no lag with its twin turbos, but it was there.. It was worse than I have on Ram 3500 with a CTD. The tip in was good, but the lag .. I guess I can get use to it.. But is this lag normal on these cars or could I have been driving one that just wasn't running right?

The dealer did tell me that the same engine was used in their larger cars... I think I heard him say up to the 5 series, but I have a hard time believing that.. Still if it is, I'm guessing BMW has confidence in this little engine. I did see from reading here, that until 2015, there were issues with the oil pump chain taking out the engine. Are there any other issues with it? Are there still carbon buildup problems from the DI or has that problem now been rectified?

This might sound a bit crazy, but I'm cross shopping this car to a 2018 Mustang GT convertible, which isn't out yet. I'm thinking the BMW might have to be it because the MPG. I've got time as my Camry runs good and I have my pickup, but with summer coming up... Well I want a convertible.

There's a dealer demo that is equipped pretty much the way I want, but it would be used... They're offering a 7K discount off the MSRP, but I feel that's not enough on a "Used car" and they're not will to CPO it. I'm eligible for a Fleet discount, which I haven't told them, so I'm wondering if it's feasible to get a similar price on an order.. since I can't use the fleet discount on a used car.

I'll have more questions, as I get more insight and answers, so please bear with me...

Thanks!

BTW, I test drove a manual 2017 convertible Stang... Boy was that a fun car to drive, but an EPA rating of 23 hwy MPG ain't gonna cut it.. Not with how much I drive. The 18's are suppose to come with better mpg with a DI engine and a 10 speed auto trans so I'm hoping for 27 or 28 hwy rating.. maybe that's too much to wish for.. but if it did, I'd jump on the Mustang. That thing reminded me of my school years, when I had one, but with way more power.

[bimmerfile]

Sounds like you've talked yourself out of a ragtop with some alternative facts, so get the 'stang.

[RoundelM3]

First of all, the engine does not have two turbos - it has one twin-scroll turbo. If you're in sport mode, there is zero turbo lag and the auto trans shifts very quickly. If in comfort mode, the trans doesn't react quite as quickly. Our 2016 228i convertible with the N26 SULEV engine has no power problems at all, and is averaging 27-29 MPG in combined city/highway driving. Can't speak for the XI/AWD version, although it may tend to get slightly less mileage due to the increased weight of the transfer case and other AWD components.

[DF]

The b48 engine is used across the BMW range. In the 2,3,4 and 5. I'm not sure why you are cross shopping a GT. cross shopping the mustang makes sense but you should be looking at the eco boost. Not a v8.

you can get them to drop more off the demo model or tell them to cpo it. There is no reason they shouldn't.

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by DF

The b48 engine is used across the BMW range. In the 2,3,4 and 5. I'm not sure why you are cross shopping a GT. cross shopping the mustang makes sense but you should be looking at the eco boost. Not a v8.

you can get them to drop more off the demo model or tell them to cpo it. There is no reason they shouldn't.

I second that. M235i would be more of an apples to apples comparison. Not 228i vs Mustang GT.

I don't think you're going to get great reliability with a Mustang especially with a brand new 10 speed AT. If you're worried about MPG & reliability buy a Prius. Seriously Toyota consistently has the best build quality

With the amount of miles you drive you are going to be out of warranty very quickly no matter what you buy.

[overcoil]

Just did the Towson to D.C. route yesterday in my 235 hard-top.
Most important even with run-flat tires, with the DE to DC work day commute I'd want a car with a spare tire.
Then with all the trucks on 95 and quarries in the area - 2-series convertible is kind almost too nice for that commute.
I'm 155-pounds 5'10 and the 2-Series is great for my work at home primary car duties. If I had to drive 100+ miles each day, not sure I would be most comfortable in the 2-series.
And if you think the 2-series is going to let you dispense of straights and jazz up the drive, your average speeds probably won't be much different then the Camry over the course of a year.

If I had to chose a car based on your commute? I'd consider a hardtop 2-series, without sport seats, probably automatic (you want X-drive0. I think I'd like that 2-series over an Audi A3, but then in the winter the A3 could be brilliant on ice or snow in comparison to X-drive.

Anyway, rambling on here a bit, but just some thoughts.

[Rayscott]

I am not getting any turbo lag in my 228ix Msport vert which I normally drive in sport mode. Especially if I am using the paddles. You need to know how to work them. I don't get great mileage (19/22) but I didn't buy it for saving gas. I bought it to have fun in. It is no match for a Stang GT in a drag race. I bought it for driving on the twisties where it is very capable. Good luck on your decision.

[Lucky1]

If you want a more enjoyable driving experience than a Camry you have to pay to play. Thats the tradeoff. Most problems that leave you at the side of the road can be addressed during the warranty period no additional cost (except time). It doesn't bother me that my BMW had more little things go wrong than my Honda Civic because it just has more little things of value to break in the overall package

Just have an unexpected maintenance budget set aside to kick in by the time the warranty is up. If by the time the warranty is up and the driving experience of the car wasn't worth it to you sell it/return it and get another Camry.

FWIW my total unexpected maintenance bill for my 2008 128i last year was $400 USD. Maybe a reckoning is coming but I can live with that.

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by roundel335

First of all, the engine does not have two turbos - it has one twin-scroll turbo. If you're in sport mode, there is zero turbo lag and the auto trans shifts very quickly. If in comfort mode, the trans doesn't react quite as quickly. Our 2016 228i convertible with the N26 SULEV engine has no power problems at all, and is averaging 27-29 MPG in combined city/highway driving. Can't speak for the XI/AWD version, although it may tend to get slightly less mileage due to the increased weight of the transfer case and other AWD components.

Thanks for the info... The dealer told me it had 2 turbos.. I was really shocked it had two and there was that lag. When I told him that, he said it's because it downshifted to far, so it needed time to catch up.. I was like what? Every other car I've been in that downshifted does it and the RPMs jump.. I guess he didn't know what he was talking about.

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine that has one and when I told her about the lag, the 1st question from her was "What mode was it in?" I had no idea.. She said in sport mode, there was no lag, but in eco mode, she has lag on hers. I'll be going back to really give it a good test drive..maybe drive more than one to see if it's normal or something specific to the car.

BTW, her commute is similar to mine and she's telling me she's getting right around 30mpg, which is what I need. And hearing your and her mpgs being similar, if the next test drive goes well, it looks like I won't be waiting on the '18 GT...

Thanks again!

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by DF

The b48 engine is used across the BMW range. In the 2,3,4 and 5. I'm not sure why you are cross shopping a GT. cross shopping the mustang makes sense but you should be looking at the eco boost. Not a v8.

you can get them to drop more off the demo model or tell them to cpo it. There is no reason they shouldn't.

The only reason I'm cross shopping the GT is because I had one growing up and I just loved that car.. The sensible side of me says gets the Bimmer because of the MPG and it's plenty quick. I just can't do a Ecoboost Mustang... I need a 5.0, if I go that route..

I'll see what they say about the demo pricing.. I figured 7 K drop isn't enough on a used car, even if it only has 3K miles on it. It's used ... and if someone were to trade in a tagged car, they sure wouldn't offer to pay that kind of price on it.

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by xantdieselx

I don't think you're going to get great reliability with a Mustang especially with a brand new 10 speed AT. If you're worried about MPG & reliability buy a Prius. Seriously Toyota consistently has the best build quality

LOL.. I know what you're saying but there's no way I'm going into a Prius.. Even if it were a convertible.. I'm getting a convertible.. I've been wanting one for too many years now, and I don't do it now, I won't have another chance for 5 years or so. I'm sensible, but not that sensible.. Hahahaha

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

If I had to chose a car based on your commute? I'd consider a hardtop 2-series, without sport seats, probably automatic (you want X-drive0. I think I'd like that 2-series over an Audi A3, but then in the winter the A3 could be brilliant on ice or snow in comparison to X-drive.

What's wrong with X-drive? I know it's not a full time system like Subaru, but why do you feel the A3 has better AWD? I thought Audi was only using the Quattro setup on their higher end cars now and cars like the A3 and A4, they went with the VW setup.. which I thought was basically the same as X drive.

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

If you want a more enjoyable driving experience than a Camry you have to pay to play. Thats the tradeoff. Most problems that leave you at the side of the road can be addressed during the warranty period no additional cost (except time). It doesn't bother me that my BMW had more little things go wrong than my Honda Civic because it just has more little things of value to break in the overall package

Just have an unexpected maintenance budget set aside to kick in by the time the warranty is up. If by the time the warranty is up and the driving experience of the car wasn't worth it to you sell it/return it and get another Camry.

FWIW my total unexpected maintenance bill for my 2008 128i last year was $400 USD. Maybe a reckoning is coming but I can live with that.

I've been doing my own maintenance on vehicles since I started driving at 16, so I'm not scared of it.. Especially owning a Jeep that actually goes offroad.

Can you give me any insight on what common problems these cars are having? Does these engine have carbon problems like BMW had in the past? Are window motors and what not still breaking on them?

Thanks!

[DF]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

I've been doing my own maintenance on vehicles since I started driving at 16, so I'm not scared of it.. Especially owning a Jeep that actually goes offroad.

Can you give me any insight on what common problems these cars are having? Does these engine have carbon problems like BMW had in the past? Are window motors and what not still breaking on them?

Thanks!

I'm not aware of any issues. The engine just came out. It hasn't been around long enough to have many examples of high mileage. N55 has proven pretty reliable so I would expect the the same from the b48/58

[DF]

Originally Posted by Lucky1

If you want a more enjoyable driving experience than a Camry you have to pay to play. Thats the tradeoff. Most problems that leave you at the side of the road can be addressed during the warranty period no additional cost (except time). It doesn't bother me that my BMW had more little things go wrong than my Honda Civic because it just has more little things of value to break in the overall package

Just have an unexpected maintenance budget set aside to kick in by the time the warranty is up. If by the time the warranty is up and the driving experience of the car wasn't worth it to you sell it/return it and get another Camry.

FWIW my total unexpected maintenance bill for my 2008 128i last year was $400 USD. Maybe a reckoning is coming but I can live with that.

Fun and exciting rarely goes along with cheap and reliable. I'm willing to pay for the better driving experience. I see every corner as an opportunity. Driving something that makes that fun is my highest priority

[xantdieselx]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

LOL.. I know what you're saying but there's no way I'm going into a Prius.. Even if it were a convertible.. I'm getting a convertible.. I've been wanting one for too many years now, and I don't do it now, I won't have another chance for 5 years or so. I'm sensible, but not that sensible.. Hahahaha

Yeah I feel you. I have at least 3 co-workers that drive a Prius. I wouldn't punish myself like that.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

What's wrong with X-drive? I know it's not a full time system like Subaru, but why do you feel the A3 has better AWD? I thought Audi was only using the Quattro setup on their higher end cars now and cars like the A3 and A4, they went with the VW setup.. which I thought was basically the same as X drive.

I just think with all the driving your doing do you really want the addition of all wheel drive when simply front wheel drive will offer great snow and ice traction. it's a tough choice because I think I'd rather do the kind of mileage you'll be doing in a 2-series over an A3 - but I don't have an A3 to compare.
Just that for accumulating high mileage I'd tend to go with less driveline complexity.

[crabu2]

Originally Posted by ScottSinger

I just think with all the driving your doing do you really want the addition of all wheel drive when simply front wheel drive will offer great snow and ice traction. it's a tough choice because I think I'd rather do the kind of mileage you'll be doing in a 2-series over an A3 - but I don't have an A3 to compare.
Just that for accumulating high mileage I'd tend to go with less driveline complexity.

Makes sense, but I'm use to 4wd/AWD. In the last 30 years, this Camry is the only vehicle I've had that didn't have AWD or 4WD and I've had or got Jeep, Ram, Subaru, and Ford.. Camry does ok in the snow, but I much prefer 4wd/awd. .. Oh, I forgot. we did have a Honda mini van for a bit of time, which was fwd too.

With all the 4wd/awd vehicles, the only problem I've had related to driveline was the Jeep.. But that's because of taking it offroad and through major water crossings... Even then, I didn't actually have a problem I didn't cause by abuse... twisted drive shafts, water in the transmission and t-case, and what not...

BTW, what's the maintenance on these things like? I know the engine oil is rated to 10K miles, but how about the the other fluids? Are they easy to change or did they basically make the rest a sealed setup without a way to measure/check the fluids? I just don't trust these lifetime fluid deals.

[overcoil]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Makes sense, but I'm use to 4wd/AWD. In the last 30 years, this Camry is the only vehicle I've had that didn't have AWD or 4WD and I've had or got Jeep, Ram, Subaru, and Ford.. Camry does ok in the snow, but I much prefer 4wd/awd. .. Oh, I forgot. we did have a Honda mini van for a bit of time, which was fwd too.

With all the 4wd/awd vehicles, the only problem I've had related to driveline was the Jeep.. But that's because of taking it offroad and through major water crossings... Even then, I didn't actually have a problem I didn't cause by abuse... twisted drive shafts, water in the transmission and t-case, and what not...

BTW, what's the maintenance on these things like? I know the engine oil is rated to 10K miles, but how about the the other fluids? Are they easy to change or did they basically make the rest a sealed setup without a way to measure/check the fluids? I just don't trust these lifetime fluid deals.

Automatic trans fluid is long life but people change it out early.
Coolant long life - but you can change it out early.
Water pump is plastic electric which demands it own inspection intervals.
Direct injection and U.S. fuels not sure related but combustion deposits are handled almost as scheduled maintenance - Search forum for how things are going on the latest engines.
No spare tire so read about runflat pros & cons.

Check options list for headlights and rear view camera availability.

[RoundelM3]

Originally Posted by crabjoe

Thanks for the info... The dealer told me it had 2 turbos.. I was really shocked it had two and there was that lag. When I told him that, he said it's because it downshifted to far, so it needed time to catch up.. I was like what? Every other car I've been in that downshifted does it and the RPMs jump.. I guess he didn't know what he was talking about.

I just got off the phone with a friend of mine that has one and when I told her about the lag, the 1st question from her was "What mode was it in?" I had no idea.. She said in sport mode, there was no lag, but in eco mode, she has lag on hers. I'll be going back to really give it a good test drive..maybe drive more than one to see if it's normal or something specific to the car.

BTW, her commute is similar to mine and she's telling me she's getting right around 30mpg, which is what I need. And hearing your and her mpgs being similar, if the next test drive goes well, it looks like I won't be waiting on the '18 GT...

Thanks again!

You're welcome. I can't imagine a BMW salesperson being so ignorant of the car's specifications or how the car operates, but I suppose they're out there. Eco-Pro mode makes the throttle advance very slowly and limits your top speed, among other things, so it's not a mode you would want to be in if you want the car to be highly responsive to your driving inputs. Having the automatic engine start/stop turned on when in comfort mode would be your best option for traffic. Sport mode makes the car much more responsive. You can expect to get 30+ MPG on the highway once the car is fully broken-in, somewhere around 10K miles, although it might occur sooner.

[BEM-S4]

Just FYI if MPG is your chief concern stay away from any aftermarket options like JB or Dinan. I've got Stage 1 on my 235 (going Stage 2 next month) and I basically need to hire a fuel tanker as a support vehicle at this point. The car is THIRSTY. Even dad's Stage 1 sport wagon with the smaller engine there was a noticeable decrease in fuel economy.

Granted your mileage may vary. Some things are genetic, in addition to inheriting his flat feet my right foot is made entirely of lead.

[Maynard]

If the test driver was slower than your Camry, you got a defective model, even if you had it in ecoboost mode. I think you are going to be disappointed if you buy a 228 for great mileage - I can hit low 30's but only on open roads, not for a full tank's worth of driving (amusingly, it seems to like mountain road driving as much as highway cruising in terms of mileage). Of course it is still going to be way better than a v8 Mustang (in every way, not just mileage), so I'm thinking you may not have your final priorities fully sorted. Other thought is that in Maryland I doubt you will have much true need for AWD. If it is an economical convertible that you want, you probably want to shop elsewhere; the 228 is a very economical sport-coupe relative to other similar performing cars, but it does suck down the premium (and a small 13g tank, so you may be filling up every 2 or 3 days).