Seattle Tab Fees (RTA Tax)

[ItsaGoose]

Has anyone paid their newly inflated (3.7 times the 2016 amount) RTA tax? It's a line item on your vehicle tab renewal fees.

Just did an estimate here:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/services/vehiclefees

$850 per year!

[M.a.r.k.u.s]

Originally Posted by ItsaGoose

Has anyone paid their newly inflated (2.7 times the 2016 amount) RTA tax? It's a line item on your vehicle tab renewal fees.

Just did an estimate here:
http://www.dol.wa.gov/services/vehiclefees

$850 per year!

$728.75...

this is ridiculous!

[Shanh81]

Ridiculous

[Xerxes480]

Back to the old days....sigh.

-X-

[Vetkin]

I seem to remember a law passed in WA that made tab renewal a flat fee regardless of vehicle value, but I guess tax-happy western wa found a way to work around that.

I'm planning to move out of the Seattle area as soon as I've secured a place to go. Housing prices/rent and taxes here are ridiculous.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Vetkin

I seem to remember a law passed in WA that made tab renewal a flat fee regardless of vehicle value, but I guess tax-happy western wa found a way to work around that.

I'm planning to move out of the Seattle area as soon as I've secured a place to go. Housing prices/rent and taxes here are ridiculous.

That was a result of a Citizens Initiative by Tim Eyeman that was ruled unconstitutional but was enacted by the legislature afterward based on the results of the vote. Part of the reason that folks were so upset as to cut off the value-based tax was that the money was going into the general fund and being misused/not used on transportation. Part of this was also that the legislature changed the vehicle valuation charts so that vehicles (especially newer ones) were overvalued compared to their fair market value.

The ST3 proposition was put forth to raise money to built a mass transit system that will span from Tacoma to Everett. Only those people who live in the transit zone will pay the ST3 taxes and those monies will not go to the general fund but will be required to be spent on ST3. It was on the ballot and was approved by the vote. One issue with it was that the RTA tax was based on the same overestimating vehicle value charts rather than a more accurate market value chart. That fact was clearly stated in the proposition though so the voters were well aware of it when the approved it.

Make sure that whatever place you move to is outside the transit zone if you want to avoid the higher registration fees.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by M.a.r.k.u.s

$728.75...

this is ridiculous!

One of the reasons I am selling mine.

[Vetkin]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

That was a result of a Citizens Initiative by Tim Eyeman that was ruled unconstitutional but was enacted by the legislature afterward based on the results of the vote. Part of the reason that folks were so upset as to cut off the value-based tax was that the money was going into the general fund and being misused/not used on transportation. Part of this was also that the legislature changed the vehicle valuation charts so that vehicles (especially newer ones) were overvalued compared to their fair market value.

The ST3 proposition was put forth to raise money to built a mass transit system that will span from Tacoma to Everett. Only those people who live in the transit zone will pay the ST3 taxes and those monies will not go to the general fund but will be required to be spent on ST3. It was on the ballot and was approved by the vote. One issue with it was that the RTA tax was based on the same overestimating vehicle value charts rather than a more accurate market value chart. That fact was clearly stated in the proposition though so the voters were well aware of it when the approved it.

Make sure that whatever place you move to is outside the transit zone if you want to avoid the higher registration fees.

Thanks for the more detailed info! It's too early for me to check tab renewal fees, but I did check my address. According to their map my house is technically a few blocks North of the RTA border, but the system counted me as being inside. if I stay in Western WA I will definitely make sure I'm well outside that zone before I settle on my next place to live.

My problem with raising money for public transit through vehicle registration is that the people most likely to use the transit system aren't the ones paying for the majority of it. Plus once they find an avenue to add extra tolls and fees those rarely go away. Even though all of that information was available to voters, I would bet a large percentage who voted for it either didn't understand what the end financial impact would be or they didn't have a car and realized it wouldn't impact them as much.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Vetkin

Thanks for the more detailed info! It's too early for me to check tab renewal fees, but I did check my address. According to their map my house is technically a few blocks North of the RTA border, but the system counted me as being inside. if I stay in Western WA I will definitely make sure I'm well outside that zone before I settle on my next place to live.

My problem with raising money for public transit through vehicle registration is that the people most likely to use the transit system aren't the ones paying for the majority of it. Plus once they find an avenue to add extra tolls and fees those rarely go away. Even though all of that information was available to voters, I would bet a large percentage who voted for it either didn't understand what the end financial impact would be or they didn't have a car and realized it wouldn't impact them as much.

The way I see it, the existence of a decent mass transit system will result in less traffic on the roads which is a direct benefit to drivers. Hence I agree with drivers paying a portion of the cost of the transit system.

As to funding timelines; that was included in the program as well. Here is a brief on how long the tax will last:

A: The Sound Transit 3 Plan obligates the Board to roll back taxes to the level required for permanent operations and maintenance following completion of transit projects, unless a future ballot measure directs otherwise. Within seven years of completing ST3, Sound Transit and an independent advisor, Piper Jaffray & Co., have calculated that the entire ST3 tax increase could be eliminated, along with approximately 11 percent of the sales taxes currently supporting ST2 and Sound Move. This or an alternate mix of tax reductions could cut total agency tax collections in half.

As for the voter being uninformed of the impact of the plan, that is their problem. If we had a well informed and educated voting public I think a lot of things would be quite different.

[Shanh81]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

The way I see it, the existence of a decent mass transit system will result in less traffic on the roads which is a direct benefit to drivers. Hence I agree with drivers paying a portion of the cost of the transit system.

As to funding timelines; that was included in the program as well. Here is a brief on how long the tax will last:



As for the voter being uninformed of the impact of the plan, that is their problem. If we had a well informed and educated voting public I think a lot of things would be quite different.

Do we trust them to use the money wisely to build a good transpiration system?

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by Shanh81

Do we trust them to use the money wisely to build a good transpiration system?

Apparently we do as the plan was approved by a convincing majority in the election.

[Vetkin]

Originally Posted by jwzimm

...
As for the voter being uninformed of the impact of the plan, that is their problem. If we had a well informed and educated voting public I think a lot of things would be quite different.

I can agree with that, although I think uninformed voters make it everyone's problem. Not just their own. I'm hearing a lot of people express shock over these registration fees that probably voted for them without realizing it. Even if you didn't vote for them you still have to pay them now either way.

I do not trust the government here to spend the money wisely, but I guess we'll see. Repealing the 405 tolls would help open up traffic on the north/South corridor also, but I didn't have an opportunity to vote on that. Or how about giving tax breaks to businesses that allow a certain percentage of employees to work remotely. With all of the technology companies in the area it seems like that could remove a lot of uneccessary traffic. Just saying there had to be a better way to fix the traffic problem than forcing someone like me to pay a disproportionate amount because of the value of my car when I'm never going to use the transit system and avoid Seattle like the plague.

[AYTifosi]

The voters passed an RTA rate increase - something like, from 0.3 to 1.3% Based on the value of the car, $65,000 x .013 = $845. SUCKS! I called and that's how they explained it. My tabs went from about $300 to $845. Bottom line though, we voted this in.

[PNWM3]

Originally Posted by AYTifosi

The voters passed an RTA rate increase - something like, from 0.3 to 1.3% Based on the value of the car, $65,000 x .013 = $845. SUCKS! I called and that's how they explained it. My tabs went from about $300 to $845. Bottom line though, we voted this in.

Don't forget though that since we do not have income tax, you can deduct the RTA taxes when you do your taxes just as you do sales tax and then large purchases like a car. So while it still hurts, it comes off the top which takes little bit of the sting out.

[AYTifosi]

Originally Posted by PNWM3

Don't forget though that since we do not have income tax, you can deduct the RTA taxes when you do your taxes just as you do sales tax and then large purchases like a car. So while it still hurts, it comes off the top which takes little bit of the sting out.

Hey, thank for the reminder! Every little helps.

[jwzimm]

Originally Posted by PNWM3

Don't forget though that since we do not have income tax, you can deduct the RTA taxes when you do your taxes just as you do sales tax and then large purchases like a car. So while it still hurts, it comes off the top which takes little bit of the sting out.

Originally Posted by AYTifosi

Hey, thank for the reminder! Every little helps.

Absolutely! I have been saving my receipts and adding up my sales tax for several years now. The standard deduction they give you for the sales tax paid is much lower than you actually pay since Washington has pretty high sales tax. It normally makes the difference of around $500 in taxes saved.

[dv8pdx]

Oh man I feel for you guys. I paid $160 for 4 years ($40/year equivalent) with personal plates here in Portland. Not meaning to rub salt in the wounds. But $3200/4 years vs my $160/4 years sounds so painful. Lol but yeah we have income tax too but no sales tax on the car either. So maybe it equals out in the end. hmm maybe not. Lol

[larryn]

Seeing how long this mass transit bill has been funded from various sources, I don;t trust that they know how to manage traffic in this state. I voted against the mass transit bill.

Look at Bertha and the Alaskan Way Viaduct... Huge hoopla over that project which this damn rig has been inoperable five time longer than it's been operable.

They need more lanes and better traffic control. 405 is a nightmare, and the new I520 is a joke at a cost of $4.65B! It just connects an overly crowded I5 to the abomination that we call I405. It doesn't matter the size of the straw, when you're trying to suck hardened cement through it.

Having lived and commuted through the Big Dig in Boston, they do not have any project planning surrounding traffic in this state that I've seen.

[Shanh81]

Originally Posted by larryn

Seeing how long this mass transit bill has been funded from various sources, I don;t trust that they know how to manage traffic in this state. I voted against the mass transit bill.

Look at Bertha and the Alaskan Way Viaduct... Huge hoopla over that project which this damn rig has been inoperable five time longer than it's been operable.

They need more lanes and better traffic control. 405 is a nightmare, and the new I520 is a joke at a cost of $4.65B! It just connects an overly crowded I5 to the abomination that we call I405. It doesn't matter the size of the straw, when you're trying to suck hardened cement through it.

Having lived and commuted through the Big Dig in Boston, they do not have any project planning surrounding traffic in this state that I've seen.

Couldn't agree more Larry. These guys have failed at every traffic initiative proposed

[HPIA4v2]

Not to mention gas tax, WA has the highest in the nation and it's going up every year.
The money supposedly for maintaining roads, not interstate freeway, for this WA gets federal funding.
So toll road, gas tax now RTA license tab. No offense, no wonder Trump won the election, people just tired to seeing tax after tax and only God knows where the money goes to.

BTW, Sound Transit dictates the formula of the value of the car, it's based on the original MSRP minus percentage times the year of service, at the end it's way higher than Manheim or even BB.

GOP reps is cooking up a bill to lower the value of the car based probably more on BB or Manheim, only time will tell.

[ktc]

Thank God I bought my car before this new stupid 10+% sales tax comes into play...

[HPIA4v2]

I bet if voters knew ST3 is basically $54B tax(yes B not M), voters would feel differently back in Nov.

And everyone pays, cause it's based on MSRP - (5% x years), don't care how much you paid for it, invoice, below invoice or even a gift