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      04-18-2016, 03:32 PM   #1
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Impact of Competition Package on GTS?

Will the addition of the Competition package and HP bump to 444 make the GTS a little less attractive? While the GTS is specifically targeted at GT3 owners/track hounds, the gap in HP and 0 to 60 time is so slight..
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      04-18-2016, 07:26 PM   #2
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Like a GT3RS vs a GT3. If you want an RS, you get an RS. No real way to rationalize it.
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      04-18-2016, 07:38 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
Like a GT3RS vs a GT3. If you want an RS, you get an RS. No real way to rationalize it.
^^^This!
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      04-19-2016, 03:34 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by jml View Post
Like a GT3RS vs a GT3. If you want an RS, you get an RS. No real way to rationalize it.
I'd say the comparative gap is even greater:
M4 ~ 911
M4CP ~ 911S
M4GTS ~ GT3

A CP M4 is a slightly sportier version of the base M4. The GTS is in a different league. In the same way, someone looking at a GT3 would not really consider a 911S.
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      04-21-2016, 02:14 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CanAutM3
Quote:
Originally Posted by jml View Post
Like a GT3RS vs a GT3. If you want an RS, you get an RS. No real way to rationalize it.
I'd say the comparative gap is even greater:
M4 ~ 911
M4CP ~ 911S
M4GTS ~ GT3

A CP M4 is a slightly sportier version of the base M4. The GTS is in a different league. In the same way, someone looking at a GT3 would not really consider a 911S.
Perfect example
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      04-26-2016, 07:28 PM   #6
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I agree that the GTS is in a different league over base or CP M4's. A MY17 911S, however, is a much more significant jump over the base 911 (+50 HP, + 37 lb/ft TQ, increased top speed but @ +$14K USD) than the CP option provides over the base equipped M4 (+19 HP, 0 TQ + some extra goodies). It would be more comparable to a 911S versus a 911S with the Sport Package option (same HP but rear axle steering, and sport chrono for engine, trans and chassis tuning and sport exhaust all included @ a bargain $6k USD bump).
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      04-26-2016, 09:09 PM   #7
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You can't compare specs IMHO.

The GT3RS is about 7 seconds faster than the GT3 around the Ring, and yet they cost 2x (market). It has +25Hp, and bolted on 3-2x the downforce with a few bespoke panels (much like the GTS over the M4). There is no specification or performance rating that justifies the price delta.

This is what I mean about M4 vs GTS being similar to a GT car. If you want a GTS, the ONLY reason you will buy it/spend that money is for entirely irrational reasons, exclusivity, or as an investment. We had year long debates about the RS vs. non RS on rennlist - it comes down to wanting it. People want things for different reasons - but there is no path to explaining $ value for performance. It is not the same as a 911 vs S. This is the fastest car BMW has ever made, the first special edition to make it stateside, and there are only 300 of them. Until wallstreet stops printing money, you're looking at an ever higher market price, which takes this conversation further into lala land. I think one of the bigger reasons people want this car is because they can't have it (at MSRP), and they're not used to being in that situation.
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      04-26-2016, 10:57 PM   #8
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GTS is more exclusive. There's no limit to ZCP, it's an option anyone can have.

There's really no comparison to be made.

Acceleration isn't the purpose of the GTS anyway. Aero, tires, and suspension all make that car significantly quicker around the circuit than the ZCP.
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      04-27-2016, 01:20 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jml
You can't compare specs IMHO.

The GT3RS is about 7 seconds faster than the GT3 around the Ring, and yet they cost 2x (market). It has +25Hp, and bolted on 3-2x the downforce with a few bespoke panels (much like the GTS over the M4). There is no specification or performance rating that justifies the price delta.

This is what I mean about M4 vs GTS being similar to a GT car. If you want a GTS, the ONLY reason you will buy it/spend that money is for entirely irrational reasons, exclusivity, or as an investment. We had year long debates about the RS vs. non RS on rennlist - it comes down to wanting it. People want things for different reasons - but there is no path to explaining $ value for performance. It is not the same as a 911 vs S. This is the fastest car BMW has ever made, the first special edition to make it stateside, and there are only 300 of them. Until wallstreet stops printing money, you're looking at an ever higher market price, which takes this conversation further into lala land. I think one of the bigger reasons people want this car is because they can't have it (at MSRP), and they're not used to being in that situation.
Your arguments could also be used for anyone choosing a M4 over a 428i. Or a 4-series over a 3-series.

Fortunately, not everyone wants to be "rational" and drive a Toyota hybrid...
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      04-27-2016, 06:36 AM   #10
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Fortunately, not everyone wants to be "rational" and drive a Toyota hybrid...
I sure can find plenty of "rational" for not wanting to drive a Toyota hybrid
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      04-27-2016, 05:14 PM   #11
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impact? Less attractive? These two cars also are marketed towards customers of 2 different income levels as well. It's more than just the customer's intended purpose of the car.

Porsche is the master of this. Making 1 car and having 6 variants of that car with the top tier pricing almost at a 190% of original entry price level of the car.
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