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      12-22-2015, 06:20 AM   #1
TripleD
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Legal Advice - Poor service

Hi All,

As people are from different parts of the country, and may had similar experiences I'm after some advice on the Bathroom I recently had fitted.

I employed a Bathroom fitter to rip out and completely replace my bathroom (the only one in the house) as part of this the walls had to be plastered and the electrics done.
The bathroom fitter sub contracted the plastering to a Plasterer and the Electrical work to an Electrician.

Paid a £250 deposit to the fitter. He started work early December.

I purchased and supplied the bathroom elements separately.

Plasterer came in, didn't do a very good job. I complained at the weekend, plasterer visited yesterday to look, admitted it wasn't a good job and offered me a £40 refund to 'help towards straightening it out'. I accepted the £40 but more than that he admitted he f'ed it up!
I have not paid the plasterer any money to date, the fitter has paid him so far.

Electrical work, 1 issue but was resolved quickly while he was on site as I wasn't happy with the positioning of a light. No other issues, electrician gave me the invoice directly. Saw no reason not to pay so paid him yesterday.

Now for the 'fitter'.
It's a long story, but the short version is I have a bath with a shower over it, and it's been leaking from the day he fitted it. He has had 6 chances to fix the issue. Final chance was yesterday, were he did as I expected and just triggered silicone around everything.
This morning tried the shower and we have worse leaks, and even an additional leak to the extent that we can no longer use the shower.
I called him this morning to tell him the outcome, said he is not welcome back, and refused to pay any invoice from him. His response was that he was going to come round a rip out all the pipe work, then hung up.

Since then I have a text message saying that I need to pay him for the materials used.

So now for the question, how do I stand on not paying him? Given that I now have to find someone to re-do the whole job, he has a £250 deposit.
Do I have to pay his materials only? or can he just jog on?

Any advice or anyone been in a similar situation?
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      12-22-2015, 06:46 AM   #2
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Get an independent subject matter expert inspection carried out.

That is the first thing I would do.

This will be a report detailing clearly issues found.


Edit:

http://www.ciphe.org.uk/expert-advice/
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      12-22-2015, 07:24 AM   #3
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Simply write a letter to him detailing the issues, detail his visits to rectify the matter and how you are now dis-satisfied that he can complete the contract. Say you will be employing other experts to repair the work and this will be chargeable to him. Then if there are any funds remaining these will go to him. This will make you sound very reasonable. If he hasn't even presented you with an invoice yet then you officially owe him nothing.

A polite well written legal sounding letter can scare a lot of cowboy tradesmen away. At this stage I wouldn't be spending any money on official reports, I would spend money on sorting the matter. You have a very strong case against him and if he wants to pursue you he can but you have all the evidence at your hands.
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      12-22-2015, 07:32 AM   #4
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Get it repaired or reinstalled properly by a reputable tradesman and deduct his cost from the guys original bill. IMO best way to deal with these types of guys and next time work on recommendations instead of the cheapest if that is what you did.
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      12-22-2015, 09:11 AM   #5
davyk31
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I had similar with a guy putting up a fence. He used too thin posts and it wobbled like crazy. He promised several times to come back and then eventually said on the phone he wasn't coming back. I got another person in to fix it, cost quite a bit and deducted from his bill. Ended up he only got paid for materials which was fair enough. However a couple of weeks later the timber suppliers were chasing me for payment for the materials. Told them I had already paid etc but seems he hadn't paid them. They were chancers and tried to get me to pay on the basis they were delivered to my place etc, let me know what order I personally placed with you I asked. They went quiet after that.

The fence guy did try his luck a few times but I just kept referring to him to the long letter I wrote to him setting out clearly what would happen if he didn't repair his work to a standard. He came and parked outside the house a few times, he didn't realise we were home as cars were in the garage. In the end I reported him to the Police for suspicious activity, they called and had a chat, also suggested they may like to check his van for tax, mot, tyres etc and from my understanding it became a rather expensive say for him when they called :-)

Haven't heard a squeak since and that was 10 years ago.
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      12-22-2015, 09:21 AM   #6
TripleD
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Thanks all.

As of yet I don't have an Invoice from him.
Trouble was he wasn't the cheapest and had recommendations, and lives locally. I thought at the time I was doing it right as I didn't want to entertain the cheapest quote. Met him a few times got a good vibe, so went for it.

Spoke to a few other people (fitters) they are booked now til nearly the middle of 2016, so will be quite a wait before getting it done properly. I guess I'll have 6 months of him chasing for payment and threats.
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      12-23-2015, 03:26 PM   #7
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You have the perfect excuse now to keep him on a long lead. Just tell him you are waiting for a skilled person to repair his mess and you currently have no idea of the cost therefore cannot yet pay him anything. Keep being reasonable and say you will return him any excess funds once it's complete and he really can do nothing. Any threats or agro I would involve the police immediately.
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      12-23-2015, 05:56 PM   #8
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Sorry to hear of your woes! As others say just keep him on a long leash.

Another thing I am so glad I'm capable of doing my self, rather than paying a large amount of money for someone else to do!
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      12-24-2015, 04:28 AM   #9
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Have spoken with Citizens advice, they have said that I could pay the invoice in full under protest to stop and court proceedings then try and claim back part of the money once it's fixed. Not sure that's a good plan, as I prefer to hold the cards rather than trust someone else!
Or I can pay for materials only.
Or I should keep up communication with him, until such time as the faults have been rectified by him or another trades person and come to a mutual agreement.

I'm thinking that his materials minus the cost of what has been damaged, i.e. having to re-tile the bathroom so new tiles etc and then paying the balance. he wouldn't end up with much.

Not sure I want a court battle but CA said you have a strong position as you have let him try and fix it 6 times and photographic evidence, but they advise that it's better to come to a mutual agreement than drag it through court.
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      12-24-2015, 04:50 AM   #10
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Did he do the tiling or was that sub contracted out? Does the shower only leak when it's used, or does it leak when the bath is used too?

If it were me I wouldn't pay him until the issue is sorted. Leaks that only occur when something is used are very difficult to find so I can appreciated that it may take more than once to fix but 6 times is a lot. What's he done in those 6 visits?
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      12-24-2015, 05:15 AM   #11
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I would pay nothing until you know the rectification costs. They may exceed what you have left if you did pay materials.

The approach I mentioned above is totally reasonable but you must document it in a well written very detailed letter. If he takes that to a solicitor they will undertand the case
Much better than if he just goes in
telling them his part of the story.

Then you do the repairs using his money. If he does get legal it's no big disaster as you have your case well documented. And if at the very last minute you take cold feet you can pay him some money to avert court but I really don't see it getting there as he knows it was a poor job and will have to spend money with legal assistance to have any hope in court.

Sit tight and draft him a long letter sent registered post so he knows you are serious and intelligent enough to fight him if needed.
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      12-24-2015, 05:22 AM   #12
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I would also consider trading standards.

See link.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/co...ing-standards/
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      12-24-2015, 05:47 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TripleD View Post
Have spoken with Citizens advice, they have said that I could pay the invoice in full under protest to stop and court proceedings then try and claim back part of the money once it's fixed.
In a word NO. Do not do this you will NEVER see the money back.
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      12-24-2015, 06:24 AM   #14
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Agreed, that is very poor advice for anyone to give. It's a non confrontation approach but then it still has to go to court anyway and you have given away all the cards.
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      12-24-2015, 06:56 AM   #15
TripleD
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyJawa View Post
In a word NO. Do not do this you will NEVER see the money back.
Exactly my thoughts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilDrPorkChop View Post
Did he do the tiling or was that sub contracted out? Does the shower only leak when it's used, or does it leak when the bath is used too?

If it were me I wouldn't pay him until the issue is sorted. Leaks that only occur when something is used are very difficult to find so I can appreciated that it may take more than once to fix but 6 times is a lot. What's he done in those 6 visits?
He done tiling, I did point out on one visit that one of the tiles didn't look right, he had to remove the tile, and fit a new one, this is one of the tiles that is wobbling and cracked grout.
Also I should say I have hemp board/strammit walls, which is compressed straw with lining paper. Since this issue I've been asking about the people do not recommend tiling straight to this, they advising using ply and tile backer board.

The leak is from the shower, the bath doesn't leak so it's not cracked or coming from the drain or nothing. He suspected it was the shower screen, so was basically taking that off and refitting it multiple times. I found the problem was in the grout and dodgy tiles after about 2 hours of testing with the missus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by davyk31 View Post
Sit tight and draft him a long letter sent registered post so he knows you are serious and intelligent enough to fight him if needed.
I have been spending some time documenting all I can think of as no doubt I will need all the information, and taking pictures. Next step is as you suggested a formal letter, and should there be anything through the post from a court, I will be making a counter claim for damages that will far exceed what he's owed.

I also need to get another trades person in to assess and quote for the work to be done properly, this will also need to go into the letter, but that will have to be a job for january.
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      12-26-2015, 09:45 AM   #16
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Do you have any pictures or a description of the job as it was in progress?

i.e. What prep did he do on the boards/plaster before tiling? What glue did he use? Did he seal the grout? If he has tiled straight on to the paper without proper sealing (not PVA) then I'm sure that is a big no no in a shower area.

I can probably help a bit but if you want some professional advice then go to tilersforums.co.uk and give them a description of the job. There are some properly knowledgeable and helpful people on there (bit like this forum ) and they will tell you what should have been done and what needs to be done to rectify it.

Note that if the job is less than £5K you can use the small claims court and if you can show he cocked up you are very unlikely to lose and you don't need solicitors.
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      12-28-2015, 06:21 AM   #17
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Even if he does take you to court will be at least a couple of months before you get a date set anyway

As above document document document

It is best if you can sort it out without court. But stand your ground. You are the victim after all
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