[sushkr]

It is almost 10 months since I bought the car (new) and I have driven it 7500 miles. No oil change indicator has come up. I am wondering if I should just wait for the car to flash it for me, or should I get the oil change done myself? I have read BMW used to recommend oil changes at 15,000 miles (a bit crazy for sure) and then they recently revised it to every 10,000 miles. I would just like to stick with changes every 7000 miles as per conventional wisdom. But if I went for an early oil change, will BMW cover the cost (given that first 4 years of maintenance is free)? Would love to hear from any first time oil change experiences; did you wait for the car's indicator and if you paid out of pocket? Thanks!

[Billfitz]

Your iDrive will tell you how many miles you have before an oil change is needed.

[kbsilver]

I believe the newer BMWs now have a 10,000 oil change interval. While at the upper limit for me, I would still consider this acceptable. You are correct that in the past BMW had the OC intervals at 15,000+ miles (it was over 16K on my E39 540) which was way out of my comfort zone, and I was doing in-between oil changes myself.

I also would want an oil change at least once a year. Just my humble opinion.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by kbsilver

I also would want an oil change at least once a year. Just my humble opinion.

+1 if you live in the north. Cold temperatures cause increased contaminant build up, due to the condensation that occurs when it gets cold, and often the engine won't get hot enough long enough to boil it off. I always change my oil come spring.

[Perusal]

I find these discussions, especially where N America is concerned, quite amusing. In a nutshell, as we say over here, you are all being conned by N American marketing speak. Over here in Europe our cars regularly do 2 years, 20,000 miles on the same oil. BMW set their oil specification to ensure long life and that any contaminants etc will be held in suspension for the the life of the lubricant and until the drain interval is reached. The additive chemistries used in European oils are the same/very similar to the chemistries used on your side of the pond. The specifications set by ACEA and API (European and N American standards authorities respectively ) are not dissimilar.

Go with whatever BMW tell you is the sensible interval. There is absolutely no need to change your oil more frequently, technology in lubricants has moved on in the same way as has automotive development. Of course the oil companies would love you to change your oil as frequently as possible, more oil consumption equals more bucks.

...and before anybody tells me I don't know what I am talking about.....I worked in the oil and petrochemical industry for 25 years both in technical development and marketing roles. My first company in that arena was Lubrizol, check them out, global HQ in Cleveland, OH and then for one of the global international oil majors so trust me, I do know something about this topic.

[sushkr]

Going 20,000 miles between oil changes is certainly a stretch. We spend $1500 per year on car insurance, so why not spend an additional $100 on an oil change to ensure the long-life of our engine. In other words, an oil change is the service with most [benefit/cost] ratio for a car, so not really necessary to stretch the interval to the limit IMO.

Anyhow, my question was more about whether BMW maintenance would cover the cost of oil change before its 'service indicator' went on (i.e. before the iDrive indicated that it was officially a time for an oil change).

Edmunds had a 3GT long term test vehicle for which their service indicator for oil change went up at 8,000 miles. So here we have a data point, that the car thought its oil was due for change at 8,000 miles (if this is what the car was programmed to think, I certainly would not go 20,000 miles).

Here's the link:
http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/3-series-...t-service.html

Again, if I went for an oil change at 7,500 miles (just because I had some free time now and will be busy in January), will BMW maintenance cover it or will I have to pay out of pocket just because I got a 'service before the car indicated me it was time for service'?

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by sushkr

Again, if I went for an oil change at 7,500 miles (just because I had some free time now and will be busy in January), will BMW maintenance cover it

Have you asked your dealer?

[Perusal]

The service indicator can pretty much be set at any interval the dealer determines.

Over here in Europe we don't even have businesses such as Kwik Lube or Jiffy Lube....there's just no call for them. The absolute MINIMUM interval anybody mandates over here is 10,000 miles or one year. The vast majority of OEMs mandate variable intervals which often stretch to 2 years. My wife's Hyundai I30 (Elantra) diesel had its first dealer recommended oil change last week at 2 years.......(and diesel creates far more insoluble matter than gasoline).

As I said, the N American system is brainwashed into going for much more frequent intervals.

My son lives in Canada, drives a 2013 Mustang 5.0GT which the dealer suggested needed oil changes at 5000 miles. When my son challenged him with data I provided the dealer backed right off and has agreed to 10000 miles changes without any threat to the warranty.....

.....-and remember, in climates such as Finland we have cold temperatures to match anything in N America, driving speeds are faster, there is more acceleration/deceleration owing to the type of roads we have so the oil environment is much harsher.

I'm not surprised anybody would recoil at the thought of 2 year intervals in N America, it's completely opposite to everything you have been told.....but that doesn't mean it's true ;-).

My 3 GT DIESEL has 14,000 miles on the clock, is 19 months old and my oil indicator is suggesting no need for a change until next Spring......

[sushkr]

I think it is an overkill when you say there is brainwashing going on in N America. People are not fools in N America.

Your point is taken that oil might very well survive until 20K miles. But in the same token, I won't really call it foolish to stick with 'BMW recommended 10K intervals'. The interval in car is set by BMW, programmed by BMW as it deemed fit and necessary. I have no reason to believe dealers would tinker with the software to set a different interval on their own whims. BMW recommended interval is 10K miles/1 year and dealer has no role in setting that interval.

BTW, here is the official BMW recommendation for 2014+ models:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=868291

[kbsilver]

Originally Posted by Perusal

I find these discussions, especially where N America is concerned, quite amusing. In a nutshell, as we say over here, you are all being conned by N American marketing speak. Over here in Europe our cars regularly do 2 years, 20,000 miles on the same oil.

Let see spend $60,000 on the car, $2,000 a year on insurance, and take my chances with a 20K mile oil change interval, no thanks. I'll gladly spend the $85 for the extra oil change. Yes all the BMW recommended intervals will be fine for the duration of the warranty. I am one who keeps cars to 200K miles and am concern about the long term damage of extended oil changes. Our car club has many BMW mechanics in it and there are plenty of horror stories of people having destroyed engines following the recommend change intervals (this is usually combined with a constant short trip driving profile). As indicated up in this thread, in the USA BMW recently reduced the interval from 15K-18K miles to 10K miles. At 10K mile or 1 year, I am fine with that interval.

I've only had one brand new BMW, an E46 328i which my son is still driving. 8K mile oil change intervals since new, currently has 210K miles and does not burn a drop of oil. Still down only 1/4 quart between the 8K mile oil changes.

[karma mechanic]

I've had a similar discussion in a Nissan forum, the UK interval for the 1.6 turbo petrol is 12,500 miles and 18,000 for the diesels. The US owners have a different schedule, 7,500 miles normally but everyone seems to use the 'severe' schedule:

SCHEDULE 1 (more severe operating conditions), every 3,750 miles or 3 months, whichever comes first
Use Schedule 1 if you primarily operate your vehicle under any of these conditions:

Repeated short trips of less than 5 miles in normal temperatures or less than 10 miles in freezing temperatures
Stop-and-go traffic in hot weather or low-speed driving for long distances

Driving in dusty conditions or on rough, muddy, or salt-spread roads
Towing a trailer, or using a camper or car-top carrier

The reason they use schedule 1? Because road salt is used, or they encounter traffic... The prevailing thought seems to be that schedule 1 is the only way to keep the warranty. And that's why there are so many lube places.

[sushkr]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

Have you asked your dealer?

I asked the dealer, and they said BMW will pay for it only if I meet '10K miles or 1 year since car purchase'. Even if I go 11 months after purchase, I will have to pay out of pocket. That sucks.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by sushkr

I asked the dealer, and they said BMW will pay for it only if I meet '10K miles or 1 year since car purchase'.

I drive very few miles, 5K a year. I'm going to change my filter next week, mainly because it's still the original filter, and you're going to get more particulates during the break in. I won't hit a year until the end of January, and I won't bother doing an oil change then because my dealer is an hour and a half away. Come spring I'll do my own oil change, which is hardly brain surgery, so the cost will only be $30 or so. With the distance to my dealer being what it is I won't go to him until some other maintenance is required, and then while he has it I'll do an oil and filter just because it's paid for already.

[bueller]

I do not put a lot of mileage on my car, and my dealer will do a 'low mileage' oil change annually at no charge.

Even if it were not free, and probably not absolutely necessary if you are running synthetic, the piece of mind is worthwhile to me.

B.

[Perusal]

Originally Posted by sushkr

I think it is an overkill when you say there is brainwashing going on in N America. People are not fools in N America.

Your point is taken that oil might very well survive until 20K miles. But in the same token, I won't really call it foolish to stick with 'BMW recommended 10K intervals'. The interval in car is set by BMW, programmed by BMW as it deemed fit and necessary. I have no reason to believe dealers would tinker with the software to set a different interval on their own whims. BMW recommended interval is 10K miles/1 year and dealer has no role in setting that interval.

BTW, here is the official BMW recommendation for 2014+ models:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=868291

I'm not saying it's foolish to stick with BMW recommended 10K intervals if that's what's recommended in N America......but you seem to miss the point completely.

What you seem to miss in that in Europe where driving conditions are every bit as arduous as in N America (there is just one European spec which ranges from countries in the warmer Mediterranean area up to the Arctic Finnish climate) the SAME car manufacturer RECOMMENDS the SAME specification of lubricant for up to TWO YEARS drain interval period, typically the service indicator comes on around 18-20 months.

Now, do you think the manufacturer, especially a European based one, would be so "foolish" as to risk harming their engines and reputation in Europe? For sure, changing the lubricant regularly will do the engine no harm and if you are happy to shell out your cash to the oil company they are certainly not going to complain. (Nor am I, an oil company pays my pension ;-)) )

All I am saying with the benefit of 25 years of WORK experience in this area, including hands on research and development testing, is that it isn't necessary and that it is as much a N American mind set as anything else that has you believing you need to change your oils as often as you do.

[sushkr]

Originally Posted by Perusal

I'm not saying it's foolish to stick with BMW recommended 10K intervals if that's what's recommended in N America......but you seem to miss the point completely.

What you seem to miss in that in Europe where driving conditions are every bit as arduous as in N America (there is just one European spec which ranges from countries in the warmer Mediterranean area up to the Arctic Finnish climate) the SAME car manufacturer RECOMMENDS the SAME specification of lubricant for up to TWO YEARS drain interval period, typically the service indicator comes on around 18-20 months.

Now, do you think the manufacturer, especially a European based one, would be so "foolish" as to risk harming their engines and reputation in Europe? For sure, changing the lubricant regularly will do the engine no harm and if you are happy to shell out your cash to the oil company they are certainly not going to complain. (Nor am I, an oil company pays my pension ;-)) )

All I am saying with the benefit of 25 years of WORK experience in this area, including hands on research and development testing, is that it isn't necessary and that it is as much a N American mind set as anything else that has you believing you need to change your oils as often as you do.

I am surprised on your insistence in trying to argue for the sake of argument. BMW recommendation on when to change oil is not country-dependent. Their blanket worldwide recommendation for 2014+ models is 10,000 mile intervals. It used to be 15,000 miles/24 months earlier but now it is not. The fact that your service indicator came up after 18-20 months, means that is an older BMW model.

The above recommendation applies in Europe, India, New Zealand, everywhere. I am glad you worked 25 years in the oil industry, but that does nothing to change the aforementioned fact.

[karma mechanic]

Originally Posted by sushkr

BMW recommendation on when to change oil is not country-dependent. Their blanket worldwide recommendation for 2014+ models is 10,000 mile intervals.

Mine is a May 2015 car. It has done 5500 miles, and the dash currently tells me that the service will be due in 15000 miles. When it was brand-new the dash was telling me 19,000 miles.

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by karma mechanic

When it was brand-new the dash was telling me 19,000 miles.

That's diesel. Diesel doesn't need oil changes as often due to the lubricating property of diesel fuel.

[sushkr]

Originally Posted by Billfitz

That's diesel. Diesel doesn't need oil changes as often due to the lubricating property of diesel fuel.

There is lot of discussion on this forum:
http://f30.bimmerpost.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=868291

Apparently, quite a few people got p**sed off because of this abrupt change in official BMW stance. And quite strangely enough, the new 10K intervals do apply to diesel engines, but only to 328d and 535d. So I guess 335d retains the old recommendation/software of 15K miles. That might explain why the service indicators for 'perusal' and 'karma' are showing up required service for such long intervals.

[Perusal]

Originally Posted by sushkr

I am surprised on your insistence in trying to argue for the sake of argument. BMW recommendation on when to change oil is not country-dependent. Their blanket worldwide recommendation for 2014+ models is 10,000 mile intervals. It used to be 15,000 miles/24 months earlier but now it is not. The fact that your service indicator came up after 18-20 months, means that is an older BMW model

It's a June 2014 model.....so not that old

[MikeMinh]

Originally Posted by karma mechanic

When it was brand-new the dash was telling me 19,000 miles.

Originally Posted by Billfitz

That's diesel. Diesel doesn't need oil changes as often due to the lubricating property of diesel fuel.

Nope, not unique to diesel. Got my 320i GT petrol in Dec 2013, first oil change was after 20,000 mls, had it done a few weeks ago (i.e. after 22 months), and the dash indicates again the next will be in 20,000 mls. It had used no more than a quarter of a litre in all these miles.

On balance, what the former oil man said sounds way more plausible. The car's electronics do take into account what driving style, air temperatures, engine temps etc apply and adjusts the change interval accordingly. This has been like this with my previous BMWs for at least 15 years.

Can't see the point in changing oil any earlier than necessary.

Billfitz is right on one aspect, diesel is an oil, petrol isn't. Hence the term "Heating Oil Ferrari".

[Billfitz]

Originally Posted by MikeMinh

Billfitz is right on one aspect, diesel is an oil, petrol isn't. Hence the term "Heating Oil Ferrari".

The lubricating quality of diesel fuel is one reason why diesels last longer.
I changed my filter today, 4400 miles. As I expected with the initial break-in oil it was pretty dirty, as is the oil, which I'll change in the spring.